GOT A COURT DATE? Important, please read......

[Memnoch]

***In light of recent events, it is now more important than ever that you prepare thoroughly for court and include everything you need in your bundles.***

 

It appears that some claimants are now getting a bit sloppy with regards to bundles and preparing for court. We've seen quite a few threads recently where the claimant hasn't bothered submitting anything becouse its a "waste of time".

 

Ultimately, that may well be true in most cases, but to not comply with a court order is a very dangerous game and you run the real risk of having your claim struck out. There have been 2 claims in the last week or so where this has been the case.

 

As we all know, its highly unlikely that your claim will get as far as court, but even so, you should still prepare exactly as you would if you knew it was going to - I.e. get a good, solid bundle in ON TIME, and make sure that you know your arguements. Particularly in relation to Lloyds service charge defence. Read this thread -

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/lloyds-bank/81799-issues-raised-llloyds-bank.html

 

What to include in your bundle

 

Clearly this will depend to a certain extent upon which specific directions have been ordered, but, IN ADDITION to everything else which you would normally submit, you should include;

 

1) Your account T&C's. Preferably those from when the account was opened. If you haven't got them, attempt to get them from your branch or the website. This site contains Lloyds T&C's back to 1999 -

Internet Archive Wayback Machine

As well as account T&C's, you should also have a look for those applicable to cards, standing order and direct debit forms.

 

2) The full OFT report. No need to print out the whole thing, but you do need the front cover, section 1 "overview" and most importantly, section 4.21 "Disguised penalties". You should put this in INSTEAD of the OFT report summary from the Basic Bundle in the templates library.

 

3) The McNamara interview. The transcript is fine.

 

4) Any correspondance or documents published by Lloyds which refers to their charges as - "Penalties", "defaults", "imposed when you breach your agreement", etc. Check your old T&C's if you have them and include anything which suggests that the charges are imposed as a result of a breach of your account agreement.

 

I have a letter in which Martin Orton states that Lloyds' charges exist - "in order that we can recoup our costs". This was in response to a direct request to justify their charges, and no mention was made in the letter of them being any sort of "service charge". Print it off from here to include in your bundles -

 

Orton letter

 

Simularly, if anyone else finds anything useful such as that, or in their old T&C's, etc, please let me have a copy so I can distribute it for others. Obviously you should block out personal details, and also I am happy to pay any postage costs if necessary.

 

5) A detailed Witness Statement, which specifically includes arguements which tackle the service charge arguement and "cloaking". See the post below.

 

When you've submitted your bundle

 

In most cases they will pay around now, but if not, and if they don't submit documents, then on the day of the deadline for submissions (which will be stated on the directions order), you should inform the court of their non-compliance immediately.

 

Send the letter here -

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/lloyds-bank/58011-directions-non-compliance-letters.html

 

Also, if a court date is imminent you should have a good read of the guidance notes.

 

Court guidance notes

 

Gary, in addition to number 2) the Full OFT Report (Credit Card Charges)I recommend the following also be added:

 

2.a. Unfair Contract Terms guidance

 

Link here =

http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/reports/unfair_contract_terms/oft311cons.pdf

 

Firstly print pages 1 - 15 which outlines the report then section 5.8 which I found extremely useful.

 

Also Pages 1-4 and page 118 - 123 of this document which is just a large annexe to the above report ---> http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/reports/unfair_contract_terms/oft311cons-annexes.pdf

 

Gary, if there is any way you can read through this and if you deem necessary edit your thread on the main page (the one I have quoted) and add the above info to it.

[Memnoch]

No probs, I have added it to my court bundle anyhow cause I think I can use it to refer back to.

 

I am currently trying to build up a load of arguments to counter the 'Charge for a service' defence.

 

I still think that my, and every other Lloyds TSB customer with a Select, or higher account, strongest argument against 'Charge for Service' is the monthly admin fee I pay for the running of my account. I have just not been able to word this particular argument yet.

 

Another argument I have been looking at is the disguised penalties and possibly caselaw for Lord Elphinstone v. Monkland Iron and Coal Co (1886) "....a penalty is a charge where compensation is paid for an event causing damage.....". The compensation being the £30 charge etc and the damage being the extra service Lloyds have had to supply.

[Memnoch]

I have decided to add an extra bit of evidence in relation to unreasonable charges.

 

If these fees are for a service they are unreasonable etc.

 

I suggest using the Allied Irish Bank website for the Irish bank account fees and charges then the UK bank account fees and charges.

 

For returned Cheques, Direct debits or Standing orders returned unpaid the charges are below:

 

Irish branches of AIB = £4.31 (or 6.35 Euros)

Uk Branches of AIB = £25.00 (or 36.81 Euros)

 

Clearly as previously mentioned on other threads there may be some price fixing going on by UK banks.