Vodafone Default

[pearsoncdw]

I have had a letter from Buchanan Clark and Wells in regards to a debt that they say is mine from a previous address I used to live at. The thing is that I do not know anything about this debt (which is £99.83) from Vodafone. I have asked them to provide me details of the debt.

 

Vodafone have not written to me about this and they have added a default to my credit record.

 

Are they entitled to keep the default on while it is in question? I cannot recollect having anyhting with Vodafone and I feel that the default should be removed while in question. If it is proved that I did then I would be happy for them to add the default back on.

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

Colin

[bazak1]

write to them asking for confirmation of what this debt is for and for a copy of the contract you signed.

[buzby]

No - they default stays until you can prove it wasn't you. Unlike English justice, these defaults are applied with abandon at their whim, a case of being guilty first, before proving innocence!

[Penfold92]

Hi,

 

I am trying to get Vodaphone to remove a default they slapped on me several years ago. Try reading and using:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legalities/11659-how-get-your-default.html

 

I found it interesting and am currently using it.

 

Good luck,

 

Penfold

[buzby]

Hi,

 

I am trying to get Vodaphone to remove a default they slapped on me several years ago. Try reading and using:

 

I found it interesting and am currently using it.

 

Good luck,

 

Penfold

 

Sorry, but your use of this link is completely and utterly wrong for the process you undertake. Your default is with a mobile phone network, therefore the CCA is neither appropriate or applicable, so in following the action outlined, you are made to look foolish and your account is updated to reflect this. This would be in addition to not even spelling their name right either!

[Penfold92]

Sorry, but your use of this link is completely and utterly wrong for the process you undertake. Your default is with a mobile phone network, therefore the CCA is neither appropriate or applicable, so in following the action outlined, you are made to look foolish and your account is updated to reflect this. This would be in addition to not even spelling their name right either!

 

 

Thanks for that post...very interesting, are you saying when you sign up to a mobile phone contract you are not signing a CCA? I was very much under the impression this was the case.

 

Penfold

[Penfold92]

Buzby,

 

Thanks for that, you are right and so I have made an ass of myself, however, surely the same principles of the letters apply? OK you cannot say CCA blah blah blah, but you can say please produce my original agreement? The default notice? or are you saying that is not covered as not under the CCA?

 

Thanks for clarifing this in advance,

 

Penfold

[buzby]

How? It's a bit self-evident, you're entering into a service contract for the supply of communications services, NOT credit. If the network let you pay it up over 36 months, then it would have to be, but as every bill is supposed to be paid on presentation, there's no credit involved.

 

Because of this, the 'default' is not the same as a CCA default which needs to be delivered to your last known address with details of the breach and how to rectify it. A utility can simply decide if you don't pay your bill in 28 days, IT puts you in default, and doesn;t have to do anything else about it.

 

Now, in the grand scale of things, nobody cares if you've paid your electric bill late, but the CRAs are ramping up the importance of these arbitrary defaults and making life difficult. As the link you referred to pointed out, the CCA defaults are being treated with the same weight as a CCJ (unfairly in my view), but now these home-brew defaults by suppliers are similarly being treated the same way, which is a scandal.

[Penfold92]

Now, in the grand scale of things, nobody cares if you've paid your electric bill late, but the CRAs are ramping up the importance of these arbitrary defaults and making life difficult. As the link you referred to pointed out, the CCA defaults are being treated with the same weight as a CCJ (unfairly in my view), but now these home-brew defaults by suppliers are similarly being treated the same way, which is a scandal.

 

So do you feel that the other approach of:

 

Default settled and so account closed, T&C's therefore no longer in existance so ask them to simply remove the credit information as no permission granted anymore under the DPA. CRA's will fight if you talk to them directly, but the supplier may cave as they cannot prove you gave permission to continue to supply info to CRA's nor permission to the CRA's to continue suppling info for the next 6 years to everyone else?

 

Also if they do not supply the original agreement then they cannot even prove you gave permission to supply info (under the DPA) originally can they?

 

Thansk,

 

Penfold

[buzby]

The trouble here is the CRAs say this creditor information is historically accurate, and you freely gave your permission for your data to be disclosed in that way. So, if the creditor removes it willingly, then it disappears, however the CRA will not. The agreement for the supplier to process your private data is ended, but not that of the CRA (which is a parallel track of data, if you like). There may be an argument that would or could allow you to demand the CRA's are bound by the data clauses you agreed to with the original company - but how you enforce this without spending a fortune in time, effort and probably money, it isn't a simple matter.

 

The 'original agreement' ploy used to be a slam-dunk, but with the courts taking a less restrictive view (and the fact you no longer have to sign DDMs, or on-line mobile phone contracts), it is the ongoing use of the service that is interpreted as your agreement to the contract being in force. This stinks, but with such a liberal interpretation any hope the consumer has of judicial back-up appear slim.

[Penfold92]

Hi,

Just to let you know when I got home there was a letter from Vodafone and it reads:

Dear ….

RE: Billing account number …..

Thank you for your recent letter in reference to the above account that you held with Singlepoint 4 U Ltd

I would advise that the Vodafone Limited airtime agreement is not a regulated product for the purposes of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. (as pointed out by Buzby) Vodafone Limited is therefore not obliged to send you the documents you requested. Furthermore, Vodafone Limited will not provide the documents that you are demanding nor are we bound by the timeframes that you have set out. (Surely they must provide an agreement if asked for it?)

However, in light of the fact that you appear to be concerned about a default placed on your credit reference record as a consequence of information provided to credit reference agencies, we have reviewed this matter and would advise that due to the issues encountered regarding your address change at the time, and the fact you did not receive the invoices in a timely manor, we have removed the default and the late payments recorded from your credit file. (I do not remember any issues with not receiving invoices on time, nor a change of address, but hey if they want to make an excuss up to remove it fine by me!)

Should you require any further assistance with this matter, please contact me on 01295 818131

Yours sincerely,

Nick Southam

Quality Assurance

So guys there is hope at the end of the tunnel and I did not even have to send a few letters for this one! Admittedly this debt is from 2003 and they probably could not find any records, the debt was settled so they thought “sod it get rid of him!”

Good luck guys,

Penfold

[jessie12]

Good news for you.

 

I am in same position with Vodafone - they placed a default on my credit file. I had moved address - phone not in use, didn't realise I had monies outstanding. I paid Debt collectors (£152) just as soon as they contacted me. I did inform Vodafone of new address - they state I didn't so default remains. My credit file shows my new address in 'linked address' - source Vodafone, 2 years before default added.

 

Do you think I could go back to them as they have removed your default as surely should treat me in the same way?

[Penfold92]

I would say it depends on how old the default is. Mine was from 2003 and the way they worded the letter sounds like they could not find the agreement and so were just fobbing me off and getting rid of me.

 

Why not try, write to same guy above and his address is: Vodafone Ltd, Pembroke House, Banbury Business Park, Aynho Road, Adderbury, Oxon, OX17 3NS.

 

I suggest posting your letter here first so we can see if we can tweak it. I would ask for your agreement to see what you signed...Something along those lines. Problem is I cannot help you too much as I wrote completely the wrong letter and they even sent my £1 cheque back!

 

I would not mention that you know they did this for someone else in the first letter... Hold back an ace until you need it!

 

Hope that helps,

 

Penfold

[mfpa]

The agreement for the supplier to process your private data is ended, but not that of the CRA

 

Don't know about you but I have never entered an agreement with any of the CRAs to process my private data.

 

Agreements with suppliers sometimes contain a clause that they may pass data to a CRA who may keep record and that record may be divulged to other parties. Not previously thought about whether or not it is implicit that the permission to the CRA to "process" my personal data ends along with the agreement giving rise to it. I do not recall reading an agreement that stated explicitely one way or the other.

[mfpa]

I did inform Vodafone of new address - they state I didn't so default remains. My credit file shows my new address in 'linked address' - source Vodafone, 2 years before default added.

 

I would definitely challenge their statement about your new address. A CRA saying Voda gave them the new address should help...

[mfpa]

How? It's a bit self-evident, you're entering into a service contract for the supply of communications services, NOT credit. If the network let you pay it up over 36 months, then it would have to be, but as every bill is supposed to be paid on presentation, there's no credit involved.

 

 

Which kinda begs the question: if there's no credit involved with a service contract for the supply of mobile phone services, why do they perform a credit check?

 

Now, in the grand scale of things, nobody cares if you've paid your electric bill late

 

but if they cut you off they don't expect you to pay for the next 18 months worth all in one go, either.

[Champnos]

I have a unsettled default on my credit record from Vodaphone from 2003/4 cant remember which. I sent them a letter and £1 for copies of the ducments. They banked the whole £1 and never sent anything back! Very funny i tell ya. I also moved house around the time they did that, i had cancelled the phone in december but they continued to try to take my money out on dd through an account i had closed. Leading to a default. I have now got annoyed and asked experian to sort it out for me like they have with others. All i want is who owns the debt now and i will pay the balance if they remove the defualt, that will be funny, will let you know if it works!

 

Regards,

[buzby]

Which kinda begs the question: if there's no credit involved with a service contract for the supply of mobile phone services, why do they perform a credit check?

Because it is your interpretation of what 'credit' means. The check is to establish the conduct od the person entering into the contract - it is also useful as verification that the person is who they say they are. A 'credit check' does not always mean that a credit 'product' is being supplied.

 

 

but if they cut you off they don't expect you to pay for the next 18 months worth all in one go, either.

 

No - usually 12 months, if that was the agreed minimum term of the supply.

[paulrockliffe]

I'm sure with each of my mobile phone contracts I've had a "Credit Limit", usually of £100 or so - if I spend more than that a month then my phone would stop working I assume.

 

Although I would be paying line rental in advance, once I've exhausted however many free minutes or texts I have, surely a credit agreement is necessary for me to continue to use their service. Everytime I send a text I would be borrowing 10p off them?

[buzby]

No. The amounts are immaterial, as whatever you use (or consume) is billed monthly and you must pay in full each month the cost of what you use. They do not allow you to spread the payments over X months as in a 'credit agreement' therefore this is not an issue. You're not 'borrowing' 10p from them each time you send a text, the bill is created on a set date each month, VAT is added and you are asked to pay. There's no element of borrowing, simply a short-term arrangement to permit you to pay them when they demand.

[mfpa]

No - usually 12 months, if that was the agreed minimum term of the supply.

 

Personally not encountered an electricity supply contract that allowed this.

I know most mobile phone contracts (getting worse with Orange's new 24 monthers) and some broadband agreements fleece the customer in this way.

[buzby]

When I switched electric to EDF and also got a new gas supply, 12 months was (and remains) a requirement.

[mfpa]

When I switched electric to EDF and also got a new gas supply, 12 months was (and remains) a requirement.

 

Surprised. Thought the regulators had stopped them from doing that years ago. Or is the market less well-regulated now it is more mature?

 

Previously heard of 12-month minimum for gas in the very early days of competition among suppliers but not for electricity.

 

A few years ago, my dad had 3 gas suppliers and 4 electricity suppliers in one year!

[buzby]

It's not really an issue - they had to dig up the pavement and install a meter, so I don't think it unreasonable for them to try to protect their investment until it has recovered the cost. Faced with this or a no-12 month deal and £100 to provision, I'm happy with the present arrangement! It'll be academic at the month end as 12 moths will be up!