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    • Makers of insect-based animal feed hope to be able to compete with soybeans on price.View the full article
    • Thank you for posting up the results from the sar. The PCN is not compliant with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 Schedule 4. Under Section 9 [2][a] they are supposed to specify the parking time. the photographs show your car in motion both entering and leaving the car park thus not parking. If you have to do a Witness Statement later should they finally take you to Court you will have to continue to state that even though you stayed there for several hours in a small car park and the difference between the ANPR times and the actual parking period may only be a matter of a few minutes  nevertheless the CEL have failed to comply with the Act by failing to specify the parking period. However it looks as if your appeal revealed you were the driver the deficient PCN will not help you as the driver. I suspect that it may have been an appeal from the pub that meant that CEL offered you partly a way out  by allowing you to claim you had made an error in registering your vehicle reg. number . This enabled them to reduce the charge to £20 despite them acknowledging that you hadn't registered at all. We have not seen the signs in the car park yet so we do not what is said on them and all the signs say the same thing. It would be unusual for a pub to have  a Permit Holders Only sign which may discourage casual motorists from stopping there. But if that is the sign then as it prohibits any one who doesn't have a permit, then it cannot form a contract with motorists though it may depend on how the signs are worded.
    • Defence and Counterclaim Claim number XXX Claimant Civil Enforcement Limited Defendant XXXXXXXXXXXXX   How much of the claim do you dispute? I dispute the full amount claimed as shown on the claim form.   Do you dispute this claim because you have already paid it? No, for other reasons.   Defence 1. The Defendant is the recorded keeper of XXXXXXX  2. It is denied that the Defendant entered into a contract with the Claimant. 3. As held by the Upper Tax Tribunal in Vehicle Control Services Limited v HMRC [2012] UKUT 129 (TCC), any contract requires offer and acceptance. The Claimant was simply contracted by the landowner to provide car-park management services and is not capable of entering into a contract with the Defendant on its own account, as the car park is owned by and the terms of entry set by the landowner. Accordingly, it is denied that the Claimant has authority to bring this claim. 4. In any case it is denied that the Defendant broke the terms of a contract with the Claimant. 5. The Claimant is attempting double recovery by adding an additional sum not included in the original offer. 6. In a further abuse of the legal process the Claimant is claiming £50 legal representative's costs, even though they have no legal representative. 7. The Particulars of Claim is denied in its entirety. It is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief at all. Signed I am the Defendant - I believe that the facts stated in this form are true XXXXXXXXXXX 01/05/2024   Defendant's date of birth XXXXXXXXXX   Address to which notices about this claim can be sent to you  
    • pop up on the bulk court website detailed on the claimform. [if it is not working return after the w/end or the next day if week time] . When you select ‘Register’, you will be taken to a screen titled ‘Sign in using Government Gateway’.  Choose ‘Create sign in details’ to register for the first time.  You will be asked to provide your name, email address, set a password and a memorable recovery word. You will be emailed your Government Gateway 12-digit User ID.  You should make a note of your memorable word, or password as these are not included in the email.<<**IMPORTANT**  then log in to the bulk court Website .  select respond to a claim and select the start AOS box. .  then using the details required from the claimform . defend all leave jurisdiction unticked  you DO NOT file a defence at this time [BUT you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 ] click thru to the end confirm and exit the website .get a CPR 31:14 request running to the solicitors https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?486334-CPR-31.14-Request-to-use-on-receipt-of-a-PPC-(-Private-Land-Parking-Court-Claim type your name ONLY no need to sign anything .you DO NOT await the return of paperwork. you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 from the date on the claimform.
    • well post it here as a text in a the msg reply half of it is blanked out. dx  
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    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
      • 1 reply
    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

      Many thanks 
      • 81 replies
    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
      • 161 replies
    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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Royal Bank of Scotland **won**


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This feels like a waiting game. I have been sorting my files out with regards to the charges and high lighting the (what I think are) the most ridiculous charges, the ones taking £38 for refusing a £5.05 direct debit. Just in case I end up going into court.

The way it looks to me I think i will be in court with the RBS. I cant see them just making an offer to pay me back, I'm not that lucky.

Just hope my bottle doesnt go in court and I stand up to them and win my case.

Fingers crossed, everything is crossed.

Help!

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Hi Todd,

 

I just saw your thread and wanted to add my happeny's worth.....

 

I know the charges "seem" crazy - i.e. £38 for refusing a tiny direct debit (and of course I feel strongly that they are crazy, hence I'm on here) - but in your preparation for court don't simply rely on highlighting all the charges that "look" crazy and then building a story on that from all the media articles (and there are many) in this area.

 

You have to find tangible proof/ evidence that is likely to be acceptable to a discerning, but highly trained, judge that the charges are way in excess of the actual costs of that failed direct debit or bounced cheque. In this light you're welcome to have a look at my thread, Atlantic vs. RBoS, as I have and am currentl posting up a load of industry and regulatory reports from countries with virtually identical legal systems to ours (Australia, California etc - as there is nothing on this subject thats been produced *yet* in UK).........

 

I am at the moment provisionally building my evidence for ultimate inclusion into my court bundle (the bundle of material you have to submit to court immediately before the trial date).

 

Todd - you also want to be very very very careful with "getting the numbers to "fit" below the £5,000 small claims limit". If you do (and I am not saying that you are going to do this) selectively "miss" off a few charges then the bank will see this for sure, as will Cobbetts, their eagle eyed solicitors in Manchester, and you will run the risk, however small, of the entire claim being knocked out of court for being "vexacious". I was warned about this too - as I had a similar problem - and sure enough on the central london county court website there's a published list of known vexacious claimants. Always best to play on safe side, even if you don't end up in small claims court which is where we'd all like to be as is safer liability wise. The truly crazy thing is that by the time your case will have made it all the way to a few days before the trial date the amount of solicitors fees that RBS will have paid out to Cobbetts will be much larger than your actual claim............

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I have heard today that a Judge in Hull has thrown 20 claims out has anyone heard about this?

If so, is there any information on the cases and will it affect any other cases?

Obviously there will be an appeal if any of the people have sense to do so!

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todd - have a look at Atlantic vs. RBoS.....

 

the case in Hull doesn't set a precedent, but the entire legal system in England now is in a state of confusion. It will only be a matter of time before a precedent or a common decision will be taken though........ and it'll be soon I reckon as the courts are inundated....

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I read (on here) that other web sites are using stencils for aking banks for statements and following letters etc.

I have seen one or two of these in my work place and beleive me, they are not as good as the stencils on CAG. The stencils on here are much better and much more helpful.

Maybe the cases being thrown out of court are because of these cheaper versions asking for the return of charges and the judges are not regarding them as serious but as vexist against the banks as they are not quoting the data protection act etc...

Just a thought on my behalf i could be wrong.

Lets face it though this web site is more helpful to the consumer.

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possibly......but I think it's only half the story. The other half does rest with the fact that this bank charges issue has gone really crazy so the courts are inundated with them now....

 

i'm completely with you on what you say about CAG - this website is absolutely brilliant. i wasn't "sold" on it at first.... but after a few days reading and the really high quality advice and postings on here plus the support of the online helpers/moderators it's really worth it's weight in gold!!....... just a quick look at the "numbers" on the title page says it all.....

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Well at last I seem to be getting somewhere. I have received my court papers this morning (7th June). The RBS have until 20th june 2007 to reply. So its sit back and wait with fingers crossed.

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If I have not heard from the bank by the 20th June 2007 then I file for a judgement on the form provided. The form gives a number of options including the defendant's admission or defence. It is pretty straight forward and helpful.

As I say fingers crossed and see what happens. I will keep you posted.

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you must stick to your deadlines - even if the bank doesn't have any respect for them, as they frequently don't....

 

Once you've sent your two LBA's - each infroming bank of a 14 day deadline, then simply complete your N1 and go down to the local county court and file it with the clerks, along with the court fee.

 

Don't wait around for them......... thats exactly what they want you to do, and that is exactly the whole point of this exercise: you the consumer are asserting your rights, not the other way round in stinging 30 a time in charges....

 

also.... by getting legal action underway, 1. they'll respond a heck of a lot faster and take you seriously, and most importantly 2. they'll offer you a realistic cash figure for sure and 3. if you're not happy at all with what they've offered then you simply reject their offer and sit back knowing full well your claim is already active in the legal system - meaning they will be forced to settle either sooner or later.....

 

Good luck - this system does work, I've just got back under £5k which I never expected to see again!!

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todd - just a thought..... but even though you should still file according to your LBA deadlines, just so the claims is within the legal system, you might want to write sandy watt, at [email protected], a very polite gentle "prod" email to "...see how far into the investigation process her customer relations unit has got to" with your claim. You must write the email a few days short of the 8 week period following the banks receipt of your first LBA.

 

This way, even if the total bank charges (ignoring interest etc that bumps the figure up a lot) is over the small claims £5,000 limit then the bank will still be "happy" to make you an offer of usually *all* your charges back.

 

I sent her a polite email and enquiring as "to the stage in the investigation she had reached" so as not to damage any potential legal arguments or court case if it came to that later on....... and within 24 hours I had received offer letter for the total amount of charges....

 

Writing both "threatening" LBA's and then writing a gentle "prod" email is a common tactic in Scotland where because of the Small Claims maximum amount of £750 (unlike in England, Wales and Northern Ireland) it's actually very difficult for them to pursue the bank all the way into the legal system.

 

Hope this helps...........

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you'd be right to remain sceptical until you've opened the letter, have the offer on table in front of you and can see the settlement figure for yourself....... and even then I'd only be happy when I can see the money in my account having accepted....;)

 

well done on the offer though.............:)

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I will send an email as suggested by you Atlantic. I will let them sit on the court papers first for about a week and email around about Thursday next week thats when they have 6 days left to reply.

I was reading through my claim and I reckon I made a mess of the interest as I added it by the advise on the N1 help leaflets form the courts and only got the amount to just over £39.

I am sure its wrong, but then again as I said before I dont really want the interest just my charges refunding.

Of course if goes to court then its up to the court to decide (if I win) on the amount of interest payable to me. Then so be it.

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just sent an email to the that sandy watt at rbs and her reply was not what i thought it mightve been.

 

Dear Mr Welsh

 

Thank for your e-mail.

 

I can confirm that we received your complaint on 30 April, with an

acknowledgement letter being issued on 1 May.

We will issue our response within the time-scale, as set by the FSA.

 

Regards

 

Sandy Watt not helpful at all there. wouldve thought they couldve been abit more in depth than that.

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she is right - she has an 8 week timescale that has been stipulated by the FSA...... so by law she doesn't have to give you an offer of settlement within that deadline (for banks the FSA is the law: where we "little people" have the police force to reign us in, the banks have the all powerful FSA)

 

all I did was very politely asked how far she'd got in her investigation, which happened to be a couple of days short of that 8 week deadline - hence she paid me up in full....

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so i am right in thinking that bythe time the 8 week period runs out on the 28th of this month i should of have some kind of offer made to me bythe bank? what timescale from you receiveing the offer and replying to it does it take to go into your bank?

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yep - you should receive the offer in the 8th or 9th week.... email them to confirm a few days before - say in the eighth week

 

I am not sure how long they take in paying it in - but am guessing pretty quick - as in within a few days

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If an offer is accepted the money should be paid in within a few days after all they are bankers and the money should be no object, I would think it would be obvious that you would have to inform them that you have also halted court proceeding and inform the court that you have accepted their offer. (I note on the court papers there is a tick box for that purpose).

If I am lucky enough to get an offer, and if it is an acceptable offer, I will be sending my acceptance by recorded delivery and be at the courts the same day to ensure that I get what is mine within the few days.

I look forward to an offer being made, but at the same time I am slighty optomistic about it all. I cant help feeling a bit insecure. Then again what I have not got at the moment I wont miss, it would be an added bonus though a very welcome added bonus.

I know one thing I will never fall for any charges again as I would make sure that I did not go into the red at anytime what-so-ever again.

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i see your point but..........

 

when the bank simply agrees to pay you back all your charges at end of 8 week period, then all that will happen is that they'll credit your account

 

if and when it is *deep* within the court system and you've already rejected a few of their offers.... and as such you're no longer dealing with the bank per se, but their solicitors, Cobbetts of Manchester, then they will likely pay you with a cheque.....

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Despite what RBS will have you believe - the retail banking side of the business (which is very impressive if you ever have cause of manage to actually get inside their head office here in London or at gogarburn, edinburgh) is actually very beaurocratic - many different departments and despite what they say not an amazing degree of coordination between them all....

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