Jimmyay V Natwest ***SETTLED IN FULL***

[jimmyay]

Bl***Y Natwest cynical people have entered defence on the last possible day, my case is now being transferred to Lambeth County Court and i have phoned MCOL to be told i will get the defence probably tomorrow along with the AQ form .

 

Will read other posts on what to do but am slightly worried now about what the defence will be . Will update further when i receive the documents .

 

 

Jimmyay

[Michael Browne]

I can guarantee it will be bog standard

 

Allocation Questionnaires - A guide to completion

Allocation Questionnaires - A guide to completion

Allocation Questionnaire - Draft directions order

New strategy for Allocation Questionaires

[jimmyay]

thanks for that. i await with baited breath and will keep everyone updated.

 

I started of quite amenable to Natwest in this whole thing, but they have really wound me up in their approach and made me more determined to get all the money and interest back, at one point i would have accepted a settlement (if it had been offered) but not longer.

[Deller]

Good for you, you're entitled to the whole lot so should settle for nothing less.

[jimmyay]

ok , i have now sent off the

1) "acknowlegdment of receipt of defence" letter to cobbetts

2) my own request for further info (details of how their bank charges are calculated).

3) another list of the bank charges (previously sent) and account details so they're in no doubt as to what the claim is madeup of .

4) copy letter which i intend to send to court concerning intimidatory tactics.

 

I copied in my branch and the court on all correspondence and sent everything special delivery.

 

I also mentioned the possibility of reporting Cobbets to the law society for their tactics re: CPR 18 - tactics which are clearly designed to confuse and frighten people less well educated into submisison.

 

I think my AQ has arrived at home so i will be filling it this weekend.

 

Thanks to help from people on this site i feel a lot more confident about my case.

[jimmyay]

My acknowledgement letter

 

SPECIAL DELIVERY & BY FAX

 

Cobbetts LLP

Ship Canal House

King Street

Manchester

M2 4WB

 

 

x February 2007

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

CLAIM NO xxxxxxx -xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx AND NATIONAL WESTMINSTER BANK PLC

 

I acknowledge receipt of the defence posted on behalf of National Westminster Bank plc and your covering letter and request for further information and clarification dated x xxxxxxx2007.

 

I am not prepared at this stage to answer the CPR Part 18 Request.

 

I anticipate that this claim will be allocated to the small claims fast track, as it substantially less than the £5000 limit for such cases. I have proceeded to claim using HM Court Service’s Moneyclaim Online service, giving as much information as permitted, and which is specifically designed for small claims cases.

 

I would not then expect to have to deal with a CPR Part 18 Request since these are specifically excluded under Part 27 - unless the court specifically orders me to do this of its own initiative.

 

The information regarding the account details and charges information for which I am claiming is already in the hands of your client and they are aware that I was proceeding to recover these charges having had full notice and details before I proceeded to claim .

 

I consider the Part 18 Request is intimidatory, and I intend to bring the intimidation to the notice of the court when I receive the appropriate forms from them. I am considering making a complaint to the Law Society concerning this approach, which I believe to be cynical, and may possibly be conduct which runs contrary to the spirit of the civil procedure rules.

 

I am advised by HM Court Service’s MoneyClaim Online website that the matter is being transferred to xxxx County Court, from xxxxxxxx and wait to hear from them with regard to the appropriate Allocation Questionnaire.

 

For the sake of clarity, I confirm the charges I am claiming were applied to the following account.

 

Account Name: xxxxxxxxxx

Account Number: xxxxxxxxxxxx

Account Sort Code: xxxxxxxxxxxx

 

Please also find enclosed a breakdown of all the charges I am claiming.

 

Your client has previously acknowledged my correspondence concerning this matter.

 

I also enclose a Request for Further Information and Clarification for yourselves & the defendant.

 

I have sent a copy of this letter and its enclosures to the Court to be added to the file on this case.

 

 

Yours Faithfully

 

 

 

Mr xxxxxxxxxxx

 

 

Cc xxxxxxx County Court

 

Encs : charges information schedule

[jimmyay]

My letter to the court to go with the AQ :

Mr xxxxxxxxxx

xxxxxxxxxxxx

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

London

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

SPECIAL DELIVERY

 

xxxxxxxx County Court

Court House

xxxxxxxxxx

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

England

 

xxxxxxxxxxxx

xxxxx February 2007

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Claim No: xxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxx V NATIONAL WESTMINSTER BANK PLc - Claimant’s response to the request for further information

 

I have received a request from the defendants for further information, which they say is made pursuant to CPR Part 18.

 

However it is highly likely that this claim will be allocated to the small claims track and I know that part 18 should not apply in a small claims case, and only the court can specifically oblige me to respond as such under its own initiative.

 

The Defendant’s part 18 request suggests very strongly that I have not supplied them with enough information to mount a defence. Despite this they have submitted a very full and complicated defence.

 

I am very anxious to be seen to be co-operating as much as I can and therefore I am providing the following information and sending a copy to the defendants.

 

In section 2 of their request, the defendants ask for a detailed breakdown of the charges that have been applied to our account and our account details. I do not understand why they require this information as i sent their client a copy of this on xxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxx by recorded delivery.

Their client of course already has the full details and access to records of all charges levied on my account, as indeed they made the charges and it was myself who had to request that they supply me with the information of all charges levied in the last 6 years, in the first instance, under the 1988 Data Protection Act ( Subject Access Request).

In section 2.3 the defendant asks why the charges should not have been levied against us, but it has already been explained in the claim, the charges are disproportionate penalties. In fact section 3 of the defendants request makes it fully clear they are aware to the answers to their section 2.3 as they specifically refer to the reasons for my claim.

 

Section 4 of the defendants request; ask for details of my account contract with the defendant. However the defendants are clearly fully aware of the details of the contract, the contract is their own terms and conditions imposed by them with no basis for negotiation. Further more the defendant has purported to rely on upon the terms and conditions in order to implement charges against me. The defendants must understand very well, which are the contractual terms in issue.

 

I am sure the court is already aware there is currently much litigation being brought against all of the major banks on the issue of penalty charges. We can tell the court that hundreds of such claims have been issued at courts around the country, many having been allocated to the fast track and there are at least 10 cases transferred to the mercantile court in London to be heard as a test case.

However to date every case has been settled by the banks before going to a hearing, even Barclays bank which is the defendant at the Mercantile court cases has started contacting the claimants and making an offer of full settlement in order to avoid the case being fully heard.

 

NatWest, the defendants in my own case, has settled over 180 cases, many of them for much larger amounts than my own claim.

 

The banks are fully aware of the bank charges issue. The Office of Fair Trading conducted a 2 year investigation into Credit Card penalty charge cases and found they were unfair and unenforceable at law. The OFT also said there was a read-across to banks of their penalty charges. The OFT has urged the banks to comply with their findings. The banks have refused and the OFT in entering into further discussions with them.

 

In the meantime the banks oblige thousands of their customers – very ordinary citizens, to bring court claims which their banks or their solicitors then go on to complicate the process with procedural devices such as the present part 18 request.

 

Only those claimants of sufficient heart and tenacity are eventually paid out in full. I feel sure the great majority give up altogether or accept reduced payments. This is the deliberate intention of the banks style of litigation.

 

The banks style of litigation is intimidatory and it is sham.

 

The banks style of litigation would be vexatious if it were not for the fact they are the defendants.

 

The Master of Rolls in 2004 addressed an international conference on vexatious litigation. He told the conference the evil of vexatious litigation was that it undermined justice and was a burden to the public resource.

 

I cannot imagine any better description of the result of the banks style of litigation.

It really should not be for an ordinary citizen to bear the burden of bringing the banks back within the rule of law.

 

The OFT has the power to deal with this matter and is tasked and resourced to do the job. If the OFT were to seek an injunction then this burden upon the private individual could probably be brought to an end within a week.

In respect of my claim, I would just like to bring to the attention of the Court, details of Judgement recently made at Lincoln County Court which orders the following:

 

”The Court of its own motion is considering striking the Defence out as an abuse of process on the basis that it has settled all previous claims of this nature. If the Defendant objects to this course of action it is to file at Court within 14 days, a Schedule setting out a list of all claims it has pursued to trial and all claims it has settled." (dated 28th December 2006)

 

There is now a wealth of evidence that the Banks are reluctant to pursue any defence of the claims of their clients against unfair bank charges, thus wasting valuable court time. Until they are in a position to reveal everything to the courts, I would hope that the Honourable Judges at this Court would take note of this information in bringing a speedy conclusion to this, my claim, that they are dealing with.

 

 

Yours Faithfully

 

 

 

Mr xxxxxxxxxxxx

[jimmyay]

We shall see what comes out..........

Will update with my AQ thoughts questions etc later......

[jimmyay]

I have now submitted my AQ to the court with the enclosures and the £100 fee as my claim is over £1500, and await to hear.

 

Anyone any idea how long i will have to wait for a response from Court with a court date, or further communication from Cobbetts? What have other people had?

[jimmyay]

I have today received a letter from Natwest saying they know i'm wrong etc but will refund all my charges (over £2000).

 

Trouble is, to get to this stage with them i've had to shell out £220 in court costs and would also miss out on the £400+ interest in my claim.

 

Should i settle now?

[brownie24]

Hi Jimmyay

 

I too am at the exact same stage as you and over the weekend I too received an offer for the amount of my initial claim minus the court fees and interest that I have since added.

 

Although my initial feeling was to accept this offer I am now beginning to think that I need to stick it out until the end as I am sure after reading other people threads that we will win the full amount eventually, and it would also add another £1000 to my claim! I have also asked other people's advice and will let you know what they advise.

 

Hopefully the end is finally in sight

 

Brownie24

[jimmyay]

thanks - i hope soon it will end, it is tempting to settle as i am worried if i reject it now the court may take a dim view of my claim for costs and interest. but i also know that running up court costs and issuing papers etc should not be a negotiating tactic - they should have just settled the charges when i first asked, rather than let me do all this work - i did tell them that if they didnt , this is what i would do yet they chose to say "see you in court then" and then pay up at the last minute. tres annoying.

 

would be v interested to hear what people have done re: situations like this. it is very tempting to take the money, take the hit on court costs and forget the interest................however i have several weeks to reply so maybe the court will issue further direction in the meantime and they will crumble further if i hold out?

 

i have also had a copy letter which cobbetts sent to the court, which came at the same time as the Natwest offer letter. cobbetts are refuting my argument that they are abusing process and saying they cant be and they are just defending the claim. so they are trying to anticipate a "striking out" order of the type made in other cases .

[brownie24]

Hi Jimmyay

 

Not sure if you've sent a response to your offer from NatWest, but here is what I am going to send:

 

Mr Stuart Higley

Customer Relations

Ground Floor

National Westminster House

225 Shenley Road

Borehamwood

WD6 1TE

Dear Mr Higley

Response to settlement offer.

Re: Account No – *********, Sort Code – ********

Thank you for your letter dated 9th February 2007. I respectfully decline your offer of Full and Final settlement of £3309.50.

 

You may not have been aware that I commenced legal action against you for the full amount plus interest and costs on 6th January 2007 and I would ask that you now refer this matter to your legal department for further instruction. In my instance Cobbetts are the firm being used and my Claim Number is 7QZ02387.

 

Should you wish to settle my claim in full, then please forward the balance of the claim of £4487.25 (which includes interest and court fees paid) without further conditions and I would then inform the court that the claim is settled and ask them to discontinue proceedings.

 

I trust this clarifies my position.

 

Yours sincerely

 

 

Hope this helps you. Let us know how you get on, fingers crossed not long now for both of us and we will soon be out celebrating.

I have already sent back my AQ and bogof letter to there request for CPR18 but have not heard from Cobbetts yet.

Brownie24

[jimmyay]

Hmmm.

I think you dont need to say that "he may not have been aware" as presumably there are well aware - after all they have instructed Cobbetts and Cobbetts wont be instructed without Natwest instructing them in your case.

 

I am still thinking about whether i reject or not. i just dont know if i can be bothered with another couple of months of wrangling. if i could be sure they would capitulate soon, then i might just send the rejection letter straight off but i am unclear how far they will take this.

[brownie24]

Well I got the basis of the letter from a template on this website, and I think in my case he may well have not been aware as he only makes reference to my LBA which I sent off on the 21st November 2006. Seems like poor Mr H is dealing with a slight back log!!!! and it is not until now that he is actually getting to deal with my LBA!!

 

Also I do know there is a real lack of communication betwen Nat West and their legal departments - see my other thread NatWest Blunder this will make you smile. This clearly shows that offers or settlements are not even discussed between depts!!

[jimmyay]

i'm a bit cynical about all this "they didnt know" business.

 

funny how both you and me got our letters from Mr Higley "magically" responding to our original, pre-claim letter from months ago, JUST as we had both submitted our AQ's to the court and our snotty letters to Cobbetts showing we are serious. i'm sorry, i don't think this is a coincidence.

[jimmyay]

ok guys - i have written to NatWest rejecting their offer which was for all my charges but less costs and interest. I'm going for it all as they did have chance to settle earlier, chose not to, and i have since incurred costs and had a lot of hassle and aggravation.

 

here we go.

[Parkvale]

jimmyjay,

I think you have been caught in the middle of Nat West changing direction. The last couple of weeks have seen NW making offers of settlement straight away with out interest. They are so inundated with claims they seem to be going for a quick fix. If i was you i would also carry on .Hassle and aggravation are unfortunately par for the course .

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/natwest-bank/64780-nat-west-new-tactics.html

[brownie24]

Def needs to be gone for.

 

As Parkvale says they seem to be changing tact and paying out earlier before court fees are added. Which would def make sense for the banks as it is going to save them paying out added amounts and they are obviously feeling the pinch of our actions. As reported in the news this morning we may now be facing the end of free banking!

 

So hang on in there our perseverance will pay off for us in the end. I'll be glad of another £800 being added to my claim.

 

Brownie24

[Parkvale]

Good Luck to you both jimmyjay and brownie 24. Just keep your patience.

[jimmyay]

well i've sent the rejection letter off now. sad really but i have incurred costs and charged the interest which they could have avoided by responding before we'd got to having submitted the AQ stage!

 

i'm just ****ing myself that i've blown it now.

i guess the next stage is i hear from the court concerning a date, anyone know how long after the AQ deadline i may hear?

[Michael Browne]

Depends entirely on how busy your local court is. If you have heard nothing after 2 weeks you can always phone the court to check.

[brownie24]

Don't worry Jimmyay I too felt a bit scared about turning down an offer that initially i would have been v happy with, but we have since paid out further fees which we are entitled to claim back.

 

Also v encouraging Martin Lewis was on GMTV this morning again reiterating that people should and can claim these fees back successfully, followed by a feeble explaination from the British Bankers Association as to why these fees are charges.

 

A friend of mine got a court date through for mid April two weeks ago and then on Monday of this week after getting together his court bundle was settled in full.

 

Not long now hopefully, the race is on.

 

Brownie24:)

[jimmyay]

cheers, i feel better today thanks to others on this site and the fact that i found all the info on court bundles etc so feel more confident of winning my case should it come to court! this site is great!

[Parkvale]

All part of the service jimmyjay. What a changed character you are Just a matter of waiting now.Good luck