muggins73 v Halifax

[progenic7]

Hi muggins73

 

i sent my SAR 20.1.07 and upto yet still havnt even had a reply, i sent a snotty letter about a week ago and still nothing.

Im not really sure if this is average with halifax or not, to be honest i havnt spent much time in this forum as i have 5 live cases going at the same time lol.

 

i have subscribed to this thread so i can follow progress as were both about at the same timescales.

 

best of luck ;-)

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/halifax-bank/59099-progenic-halifax.html

[progenic7]

Muggins your very welcome, most people on here are pretty friendly as im sure you have noticed. dont know about you but im going to give kellyduffy a quick email to see if i can hurry them up.

[progenic7]

Hi Muggins,

 

ironically i had a reply today though nothing to do with kelly. Just said the usual stuff that they have received my request and put a few leaflets in the mix for good measure lol

 

I sent a snotty reply back

 

its on my thread ofcourse

[progenic7]

Well Halifaxs' time is up at the end of the week, and considering I haven't heard a dickie-bird from them even acknowledging my S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) letter I thought I'd give them a call.

What a nightmare. Spent most of the morning talking to several dimwits that insisted on saying 'I can't find you anyhere on our system' My patience began to run out when after being put on hold for 20minutes I got cut off:mad: Eventually a lady from their very own Data Protection Act Department contacted me back to say they had my details (at long last:rolleyes:!!!), there was a backlog, and my statements would be with me by the end of the week.

So, it's not looking particularily good for Halifax at such an early stage, incompetence already reins through and through!!!!

 

Lol @ that muggins thats why i wrote my nice little reminder to them just so i could atleast get an acknowledgement. They have till the end of next week with me and if they are a day late hmmm well something will be on the way to them.

Keep on keeping on muggins

[progenic7]

Hi Muggins i just received my statements from the Halifax the other day, and all i received was the copy statements and nothing else. Even after the adapted SAR i made up (i think you have seen it )

i think they were pi***d off with me so they did that on purpose to make me fight, to be honest im not that bothered anyway because i have what i want.

 

BTW whats the deal with the capped limit ?

[progenic7]

Lol just as i thought, the cap stuff is crap for want of a better word

 

The OFT have never said that £12 is the correct limit, just that anything over this will certainly be dealt with as such.

They dont even recommend the rate being £12 which the banks have taken it to mean, anyway dont worry about any cap because there wont be one.

 

Cant wait for the post in the morning MBNA and Barclays are on their last day before breach of the DPA, followed by one of my snottier letters

 

My New Prelim take a read if you get chance, all welcome to steal or borrow ;-)http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/halifax-bank-bank-scotland/59099-progenic-halifax.html

 

Enjoy the weekend !

[progenic7]

Yeah maybe, though i think that would be a pretty hard job for them to show in court, especially the charges that are from before April 2006.

But we'll have to see...

 

keep up the fight !

[progenic7]

Muggins...Hi

 

Firstly on the subject of the data protection act, the bank (or whoever you are making siad request to) has to fully disclose ALL personal information to you, no matter how far back it goes.

 

Secondly it would be very suspect if the bank told you they only keep exactly six years worth of data..think about it the data controller would have to update every single file on every single person on a daily basis to make sure they only had precisely six years worth of data. If the account is live the bank will have all the data from the day you opened the account, even if the accounts closed they would almost certainly have all the data from day of opening the account.

 

The subject of the six year time barring period actually runs from today, or atleast from when you first requested the charges back (ie not long ago) by means of the Prelim letter.

Though all is not lost, me myself i wouldnt worry about the six year time barring period (PM me if you want more info here) there is alot of great case law around on this issue to back up our argument and under s32 of the Limitations Act we have the authority under statute.

So put simply i would claim from 1998 like you said and dont worry about what the defence says.

Have you done your prelim or are you using the one from the templates library ?

I have one you can modify if you like (i can add extra case law for you at a later stage) even though i say so myself i think its pretty punchy and gets the message over.

 

best regards

 

Johnny

[progenic7]

Hi muggins,

 

yeah feel free to PM whenever you like, i have a fair amount of case law and statute to back that argument up (i just dont want it in an open forum right at the minute)

 

yeah i have just about finished my Prelim drafted and ready, its in all my threads but the best version is this one i think

 

help yourself http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/royal-bank-scotland/59100-progenic-rbs-advanta.html

[progenic7]

Hi Muggins,

 

so what have you received up to date ?

all they sent me was copy statements, they didnt even include information on phone calls or letters sent out ect like most of them do.

The info i got from RBS was great, and also online finance, but halifax just the statements and thats it.

 

I did send a few letters while waiting for them to comply, and made my SAR very strong and very clear, but hey ho

[progenic7]

Hi muggins

 

i know how you feel as mbna did the same to me only in a really snotty, cocky, snearing way to wind me up even more

 

but after my last letter to them, making it abundently clear that i wasnt messing, and that i thought they all were totally incompetent (i had already complained to the ombudsman) and threatened to file an N1 for non complience.

and at the last minute (though weeks late) they finally complied...ha the pussies i thought to myself, as i was looking forward to a good old fashoined fight with them.

Dont give up muggins, use that nager to write a very strong letter, laying out YOUR terms clearly and bluntly, i suggest that may just give them a kick in the ass, they clearly need.

 

Johnny

[progenic7]

Hi Muggins,

 

i have a couple of threasd worth looking at for advice n stuff, there is a large thread i think bankfodder started about CI, just search for CI on thread tools and you will get loads of threads come up.

 

Keep it up

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/60534-beyond-6-years.html

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/3598-do-you-have-charges.html

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/51736-excel-contractual-interest-spreadsheet.html

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/natwest-bank/56352-josa-natwest-6-years.html

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/hsbc-bank/33005-bong-hsbc-contractual-interest.html

[progenic7]

hi muggins,

 

ok two questions back to you first.

 

firstly is the account still live ?

secondly if yes, are you in a position to close it ?

 

reason i ask that is important because as im sure you know, one of the sneaky ways the banks try and avoid LA issues and CI issues, is to sneakily pay the "fees" part of the claim into the live account hours before the hearing. So when you walk into court the defences barrister declares that all 100% of the fees have been paid into the account and the only thing left to argue is the contractual interest....pretty hard on its own

of course they do the same with the limitation act too, pay the post 6 year fees into the account only leaving you with the pre six year fees to argue.

 

my point is really that its very important to try and close the account down before proceeding with the court action, that way the only way they can pay is by cheque (which you can decline easily). right then that bit out of the way

 

would i split it into pre and post 6 year...No is the simple answer

 

but let me explain further to clarify, if your worried about the CI bumping the whole claim as one sky high (which personally i dont think id worry too much about) then if you were going to split it, i would make sure without a doubt that atleast 6 months of post 6 years charges were bundled in with the pre 6 year charges.

 

1990 - Jan 2002 (with CI)

 

then

 

feb 2002 - 2007 (with CI)

 

that way if the defence think they can strike out the whole claim because the entire claim may be time barred, they acnt because some of the charges are not time barred, so the old (oh S**T avoid court like the plague) comes into play.

If the defence are in any doubt about whether or not they may have to prove the true costs, the in my opinion they will pay anything to avoid this chance (even if its remote)

So keep a few months of current charges in claim 1 and you should be fine. Dont back down, they will pay you CI if you have your poker face set (trust me they will)

thing is most people bottle it at the last minute thinking they may lose, but honestly the banks would not risk having to prove these costs in court, no way

 

but having said all that i would actually consider opting for option 1 and lumping the whole claim together and just going for it, CI the lot. i would still be pushing for small claims track though, but if it goes fast or multi dont worry as you are going to win

 

IMHO

 

Johnny

[progenic7]

Muggins

 

firstly......breath and relax

 

ok componded interest (im not an expert i must admit) as i understand is like this....the banks charged us fees and then they also charges interest on those fees, so for example they charged you a £40 fee, by the time you actually paid it back you paid the £40 + another £3 interest (that was purely for example it may not be correct)

so we are claiming back the "fees" and the interest they took from us, in this case £43, then we are charging them interest at the same rate they charged us (for example 23%), and the compounded bit is where we charge interest on the interest (because they had our money and we couldnt therefore use it or make more money with it)

i hope that makes sense, its a little complicated but i feel its wholly justified and only fair.

But at the end of the day you have nothing at all to lose, on your N1 court claim form i would put the CI at unauthorised rate and then in the alternative use the authorised rate, then in the alternative use the standard rate, then in the alternative use s69 8% interest, so that gives the judge every possible option available to him.

And in the very worst case scenario all he will say is that he doesnt buy the CI argument and hes only awarding you s69 8% interest.

But unless you ask you will only ever have No, so ask and you may be surprised

 

Muggins dont start panicking now, just take it easy, fill out your spredsheets (honestly go with CI you wont regret it), check all your papers are in order, and for gods sake dont rush, theres nothing worse than panicking because your in a rush and then forgetting something silly.

 

from what i can see of your claim i would certainly make one claim for the whole amount, your only looking at small amounts of money, and even with the CI i dont think you will be looking at major figures.

But at the very least make sure you have atleast a couple of months of post 6 year charges in your pre 6 year claim. Like we spoke about before the bank cannot then argue the thing out of court based on its time limited issues alone.

 

PM me with your email address and i will try and send you a spreadsheet by email, if that helps.

 

Johnny

[progenic7]

muggins,

 

anytime you need a lil helping hand, just shout and i'll be there

 

Johnny

[progenic7]

muggins,

 

sorry to appear a little slow but these figures have confused me slightly, how have you come to these...i mean have you used mindzai spreadsheet and put all the figures in properly ?

 

well ok assuming you have done this the first claim clearly is quite a few quid, but if its ok then yes you have every right to claim it. At the end of the day its worth a try and if a judge declines the CI argument and only gives you 8% stat then so be it. On the claim form make sure you have several alternatives for the judge to use (this means a separate spreadsheet for each alternative as well)

 

keep me posted

 

johnny

[progenic7]

muggins,

 

hey sorry i have been working most of the weekend so i havnt been around, firstly you can only claim CI or s69 stat interest not both of them together.

so you either go with the CI interest, but make it clear from prelim stage that you are claiming this, or you just go with s69 stat (8% court interest), but you dont put that on till the court claim goes in.

 

Me personally i would go with the CI, but i think i may be tempted to not compound it, but rather just claim simple contractual, ie charges + interst taken + unauthorised rate = claim amount.

 

If you are confident you have entered all the figures into the spreadsheet correctly, then i wouldnt worry as im sure these figures are right.

Its up to you at the end of the day muggins which way you go, and it depends how confident you are of the legal arguments involved, and whether you really would be prepared to stand up in court and argue infront of a barrister.

 

I think go with the CI but just simple unauthorised interest (ie not compounded) and you will stand a better chance of success without the need to stand up in court.

 

best of luck

[progenic7]

muggins,

 

sorry if some of the points i have raised you are already familiar with (i know you have already claimed before i just thought you were getting things wrapped around your head a little and needed some straightening out )

 

Well on the subject on simple spread sheets i do just happen to have in my own little collection, a couple of those lil gadgets. Thats all they are though just plain and simple spreadsheets, that merely work out the contractual rate from date of penalty, ie no componding involved. Also on the subject the ones i have dont work out the interest the bank charged you on the penalty (but you should be able to get that from your statements, unless you had an authorised overdraft and in that case it gets extremely complecated so i wouldnt bother anyway)

 

On the whole the interest the bank charged you on the penaly itself is usually fairly small anyway, but if you can clearly see this amount on your statement then put it in the spreadsheet.

 

Muggins im off on holiday tomorrow until next friday, so PM me tonight with your email address and i'll mail you a spready over ok.

 

If not you'll have to muddle through until i get back, (my holiday has fallen at a really bad time because i forgot im supposed to be filing my N1 claim forms on wednesday this week, but cant now till i get back :o )

 

never mind huh, a few days grace wont hurt and will only look good for me in court anyhow so im not too worried about it. I have five claims all at N1 stage this week coming, so things are going to get pretty busy for me over the next few months.

 

Johnny

[progenic7]

muggins,

 

i have just emailed you hun with a couple of attachments (i hope these help).

im just off to bed soon, so i'll say bye for now and speak next week sometime...dont get fretting

 

email me whenever you like ok

 

 

johnny

[progenic7]

hey muggins

 

whats new ?

 

im back off my hols so if you need assistance just give me a shout

 

johnny

[progenic7]

welcome home muggins

 

lol i received the self same letter, not even signed by hand just a copied version of some very old original.

 

you will probably receive another letter in about 10 - 14 days saying sorry they still havnt replied but are very busy and are looking into it.

 

stick with the game plan hun

 

 

johnny

[progenic7]

[progenic7]

muggins,

 

awww its not gonna take that long hun im sure

[progenic7]

Hi muggins my lil babe ;-)

 

sorry i been away for so long....man i been busy

 

it looks like you have too, i have much to catch up on huh, i had to put my claims on hold for the most part due to several things really, but all is back on track now i have time again.

I'll catch up with you over the next few days hun, just wanted to say hi and im rooting for ya

 

Johnny

[progenic7]

Hi muggins hun ;-)

 

just wanted to catch up and see how ya doing ?

 

havnt been around here for ages now and im just trying to catch since the tide has slowly started to turn again.

 

Time to continue with my various cases again me thinks (been on hold for nearly a year).

 

Johnny