DaveH V`s Woolwich

[davehills77]

OK, got the idea of the court bundle i think, but as stated before the court has not asked me to send any papers to anyone and didnt give me enough time to do it.

 

Wuth regards to it being stayed, i guess its in the hands of the individual judge that sits the hearing.

 

just spoken to the court clerk and she mentioned it could be stayed, but said turn up and see, they have had no direction as yet to stay all cases.

 

Ill keep you posted.

[welshcakes]

Hi Dave

 

I presume this is just a Directions on the 22nd? (10 mins hearing possibly lumped in with other bank charge claimants).

 

Since the clerk advised that 'blanket' Stays are not currently being issued by your court, I would take along the following:

 

a) COpy of your POCs

b) An up to date SOC

c) A prepared Application for Judgement by Default

 

These I suggest taking just incase Barclays don't bother turning up or sending in wirtten representation. If they do neither, technically you can ask for the Defence to be Struck Out (and hand over your Application).

 

Of course, they may turn up so I would additionally take

 

d) An Objection to Stay (as this is what they're certain to request)

The link for this and the supporting documents can be found on http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/17065-application-removal-stay-updated.html

 

e) A Draft Directions just incase the judge is willing to proceed the case, the link for which is http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/guidance-notes/64911-got-court-date-guide.html Post #1 Under "Prelim/Directions hearing" Section.

 

Which court is it Dave?

[davehills77]

Welshcakes

 

My bad, its Chatham maritime court in kent. Cant find many postings on here relating to the court, guess most people dont have the internet round here!!!!!

 

The Hearing has been given 2 hours, so im not sure if it will be just me in there or not??? I would guess others are turning up.

 

I have an objection to stay letter ready, but what are the other ones i need???

 

The application for judgement, is there a template on here anywhere???

 

The draft directions incase it goes ahead???

 

Just to refresh my memory,

 

POC, perticulars of claim ( IE statements etc)

SOC, im lost on this one

Application for judgement (as requested earlier, is there a template )

 

All help much appreciated as i could really do with this going through, it was held up long enough waiting for a court date, 3 months after the final papers were sent to the judge (General Form of Judgment or Order). i should have been sorted by now if it wasnt for the hold up!!!!!

 

await your advice.

 

Thanks all.

[davehills77]

OK, getting a little confused here now,

 

I am at a loss as to why i have not been asked to send in any sort of defense or any other documentation prior to my hearing on the 22nd. Also, I dont fully understand the whole court bundle thing, some people are saying 160 pages etc, yet the basic bundle only has 40 pages.... i have printed off other stuff i believe to be relevant, IE settled claims etc... but the one thing im worried about is have i got the right stuff, and am i expected to know what it all means???

 

Like i said before, the court has not asked that i send anything to anyone, so why is this?? it is also the only communication i have had from the court since sending in the charges after the General form of judgement letter. (2 month wait for court date, 10 days notice of court date).

 

If possible, can someone break it down in enough detail exactly what i need, and what to expect of the court bearing in mind the non request of docs etc.....

 

I have so far,

 

1. Schedule of charges, broken down by statement number, date, ammount.

 

2. All letters between myself and the bank, including all letters from the court and MCOL.

 

3.Basic court bundle, printed off (40 pages)

 

4.Application for removal of stay, Signed ready(Do i hand this to the judge if he stays the case) and what do i say to him if he does?

 

5.Various pages of settled claims

 

6.The recaim charter.

 

7.newpaper stories relating to the whole issue of charges.

 

______________________________________________________________

 

What else am i going to need bearing in mind the above?????

 

Need some help now as i dont have long, and sorry for my ignorance, but most people had claims settle well in advance of this, and I`m annoyed that i have been trying since JAN, and still fighting. I need this money bad, can i quote being poor and the fact that at the time these charges crippled me and i had to borrow in order to pay them???

 

Regards and thanks all for your help so far.

 

Dave

[welshcakes]

Hi Dave

 

On the Court Notice giving your date of 22nd, what exactly does it say? It should tell you whether it is a Preliminary or Full hearing.

 

Very odd to have not had any directions from the court when you have a 2 hr hearing (which could signal a full trial) so I would be inclined to ring the court and ask them what sort of a hearing it is so you don't go to uneccessary time and cost preparing for a full trial if it's just a Preliminary.

 

Could you post back once you get an answer from them?

[davehills77]

Welshcakes,

 

On the letter it just says hearing!!! not trial or anything else, thats it.

 

Ill phone the court now, and post back asap.

[davehills77]

Welshcakes,

 

Just got off the phone to the court, its a full hearing, listed for 2 hours, only myslef, judge and barclays present.

 

Now i am confused, why has no request for documents been made??? do you think it looks good or bad???

[welshcakes]

Hi Dave

 

 

It is not usual practise not to have been directed to submit all documents upon which the parties intend to rely.

 

Firstly, do not contact Barclays and alert them to this - there is a chance they a) have lost the claim hearing notice and won't even turn up or b) won't submit any bundle. In both scenarios, you have an opportunity to win by default, so don't tip them off!

 

Secondly, send your full bundle to the court (and unfortunately you have to send to Barclays BY RECORDED mail but don't put in a covering letter with the bank bundle and hopefully, they'll just chuck it into the section of filing cabinet with your name on). Retain a 3rd copy of the bundle as this is yours and you will be taking it with you on the 22nd. Also,print off and take the Royal Mail confirmation that Barclays bundle was delivered. That way the judge will see the bank had your bundle before the court hearing so has no excuse for adjourning hearing to a later date.

 

1) The bundle is everything the court will take into account. If it isn't in the bundle, you cannot introduce it unless the judge gives special permission.

The bundle documents/evidence you will need to submit will include;

 

- Up to date Schedule of charges

- Statements showing charges have been made

- All correspondence between you and the bank

- All cases and statutes upon which your claim relies

- OFT report

 

All this can be found in the Basic Court Bundle

 

Additionally, you should add as much other evidence as you can compile. Examples of other useful pieces of evidence are;

-

The Competition Commission report

- The McNamara interview

- Australian Default Fee's report

- BBC Commission conclusion

Include the Barclays T&Cs (unless you have the original Woolwich ones) - these can be downloaded at http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/101412-document-library-work-progress.html#post956704

2. Application for removal of stay, Signed ready (If judge suggests Stay, respond that you wish to object to the Stay and say you have prepared your Objection in writing, then offer it to him);

3. A prepared Application for Judgement by Default (N225) http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/courtfinder/forms/n225_0406.pdf

just incase Barclays don't turn up and the judge wants to grant you a Win on Default.

4. Alternatively, judge might want to adjourn to get more information from Defendants, in which case you offer up your Draft Directions (which directs the bank to disclose breakdown of their charges). The link is in my above post;

 

 

5. You can try and get costs as well if Barclays fail to provide a bundle or turn up. You have a right to request costs for your travel expenses to the hearing and loss of earnings caused by attending the hearing - under CPR PART 27.14 - Costs on the small claims track

http://www.consumeractiongroup.c o....ion-costs.html

 

You can also request case preparation costs on the grounds that the Defendant has behaved unreasonably. The basis for this would be that the Defendant has had months to offer and arrange a settlement if it had wished to, but instead chose to rebut or ignore all attempts at meaningful dialogue.

 

Take along a list of all the settled case's, a copy of the Lincoln 'abuse' order, copies of all correspondence between you and the bank (except WP marked obviously) and a breakdown of your costs/expenses in preparing your case (bundle, etc) at £9.25p/h. Try to particularise everything as accurately as you can, and include receipts where possible.

 

[davehills77]

Well if thats not detailed enouogh i dont know what is.

 

I havent mentioned anything to barclays yet and will refrain from doing so.

 

With regards to the bundle, i guess i need to send it within the next day or so then, via recorded delivery, to both parties, then turn up at court with my copies???

 

ill get onto it now and post the results after the court date.

 

Do you think its worth speaking to the court again and asking why i have not been asked for any documents??? or do you think the judge may be well aware of what it is and will want it settled rather than waste time???

 

Thanks for all the info Welshcakes.

[welshcakes]

TBH, even if you ring the court to find out why you haven't been asked to submit, since they've already confirmed it is a full hearing then you must protect your case by submitting everything pre-hearing. If the judge doesn't get the bundles beforehand, he would either Strike Out your Claim or adjourn to give parties time to submit as it would be "untryable" on the 22nd without any paperwork to guide the court.

 

Remember, the hearing may well be Stayed (by Barclays application or by judge's own volition on the day) so it's by no means a done deal yet. Best case scenario, Barclays don't apply for Stay or turn up and you get Judgement by Default.

Worst Case Scenario, on the 22nd the case is Stayed and the judge rejects your objection to have the Stay removed and you have to wait til OFT Test Case is concluded.

The judge will have copies of the Court Notice and you will be including them in your bundle. Acually you want to hope he doesn't really note that no bundles were requested - it might prompt him to excuse the Defendant for not having submitted anything! Don't draw judge's attention to it.

 

Must Do List:

 

* Print off 3 identical copies of bundle;

 

* Retain 1 copy in a safe place (), send off 1 bundle to court, 1 bundle to Barclays both recorded and track Royal Mail site and print off delivery confirmations to take along on 22nd;

 

* Don't initiate any contact with BLT.

[davehills77]

Ill get on to it now, print off the bundles etc, and send em off tomorrow, should be enough time to get there.

 

Thanks for all the info, ill let you know how i get on in due course, if i think of anything else in the meantime, ill give you a shout, you have been a great help.

 

Much appreciated.

 

Dave.

[davehills77]

Welshcakes,

 

The licoln abuse order just links me to another thread, should i print this whole thread off or am i looking for something specific??

 

Also you mention in brackets ( except WP marked obviously ), i assume you mean where previously marked??? IE the ones stated above.

 

Also, would it be fealable for me to guess at the ammount of hours i have spent chasing and preparing for this, i have spent alot of hours doing it and at £9.25 per hjour as you mentioned, would run into another few hundred pounds. Will the court accept a guess estimate???

 

Sorry to be a pain, i just want to have the right info available when i need it.

 

Also, what do i make the folder for when i send it to the bank, do i just put, "in relation to claim XXXXXXXXX" or something. and do i sned it to the last person i recieved correspondence from, or the blanket address i sent all my letters to?

[welshcakes]

Hi Dave

 

Regards the Lincoln "court" Abuse Order - it is post #21 on the link thread. It demonstrates how judgements have previously been made where the Defendant abuses court process.

 

WP = Letters they may have sent that are entitiled "Without Prejudice" - these are inadmissable unless both parties give agreement for them to be shown.

 

An educated guess at your hours is more than acceptable - don't take the pee and keep it realistic otherwise the judge will chuck out yur request for in itself trying to take unfair advantage.

 

Regards the Bank's Bundle, just put on a top sheet

 

"CLAIM NO. XXXXXX

 

With Compliments"

Nothing like being polite! You can send it for the attention of Legal & Litigation Dep't. I wouldn't go to effort of putting it for anyone's attention - you don't want them to be too efficient and match it up to an up and coming court hearing now, do you!

[davehills77]

Welshcakes your a star, it will be in the post tomorrow to both parties.

 

I dont need to page number each sheet do I???? there is an awful lot to do, failing that, should i just seperate them into respective piles inside the main folder?

 

I`m nearly done with the questions, just wanna be as well prepared as i can.

[livelylad]

Well done Welshcakes.

[welshcakes]

Hi Dave (and thank you Lively)

 

Personally, I did number all the pages as I placed everything into one big Word Doc and let did an auto page numbering - the advantage of that is if you eever need to amend or add, the page numbering auto updates.

 

It is standard practise to number all pages. Whilst the judge won't reject a non-numbered bundle, the absence of such can by annoying when attempting to locate specific clauses etc under examination during the hearing.

 

You're doing fine and have completed the most arduous part of preparation

[davehills77]

ok, phoned the court this afternoon to find out if my hearing is going ahead tomorrow, only to find it has been stayed.(NO SUPRISE)

 

Welshcakes, do I now send the objection letter and thats it???

 

Do i need to send a copy to solicitor and court or just the court??

 

Should I also mention that this has been going on since my SAR back in sept 2006 and would now affect the claims i have going back 6 years(IF THIS IS THE CASE).

 

Once again the banks are playing a game and the courts are buying into them.... its taken the court over 4 months to give me a date, if they had pulled thier finger out it would have been dealt with by now!!!

 

Im very ****ed off with the justice system in this country...

[welshcakes]

Hi Dave

 

Normally you need to wait for the written court notice that confirms it has been stayed however if you have the date it was Stayed you should complete form N244 http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/courtfinder/forms/n244_0400.pdf.

 

Post #2 on http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/17065-application-removal-stay-updated.html gives you a step by step in filling out the form.

You don't need to send a copy to the bank.

[davehills77]

Ok, next update is,

 

I applied to have the stay removed as per forms on this website..

 

I got a letter saying that I now have a hearing in Feb...

 

What it does not say is if this is just a hearing to have the stay removed, or if this is a final hearing to have the case heared.

 

Do i need to start preparing anything incase I actually make it that far, or is the test case likely to have come to fruit by then???

 

Is it worth me contacting the bank asking for settlement before hand??

 

Any help much appreciated.

[davehills77]

Anyone????? need some help please....

[Castlebest]

Hiya Dave, to be honest we haven't had a lot of luck with getting stays lifted, and especially now the test case is actually up and running I doubt very much that your judge will lift your stay.

 

Having said that I thought it was a good experience to go along to the court and try to argue my points . The minimum you should have prepared is a skeleton argument (witness statement) for lifting your stay, here's the template;

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/cases-stayed-pending-oft/115380-skeleton-argument-stay-hearing.html

 

edit it to your own circumstances and I would make sure you have a copy of the Leed's Mercantile hearing (Carlisle v Clydesdale) in there heres a copy http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/show-post/post-1155075.html

 

Best of luck

 

pete