Please help for an old lady

[Guest willowb]

Any news????

 

Wxxx

[chezt]

Any news????

 

Wxxx

 

I was wondering that just yesterday ... Haven't heard from DOS for a while - Hope he's not having probs logging in again?

[Destinyofsouls]

Hi all, sorry for not posting for a while, got a bit tied up with an Abbey joint account. We have been summonsed for a directions hearing on 3 April and I am panic stricken as to what to do. My OH is away working and so cannot turn up, so I'll have to go alone.

The thread for this is 'OMG £10,332 and then some' in the Abbey forum.

If anyone can shed some light on this for me I would appreciate some help.

Destiny

[Destinyofsouls]

Dotty got a letter from the DCA today Credit managment Services ( Part of RBS ) saying she was £25 in arrears and not keeping to the repayment agreement.

I sent a letter of originally to tell them the account was 'in dispute' and not to contact her.

With this being repayment of an o/draft, will there have to be a signed agreement like in a credit agreement?

 

Any suggestions what \I do now? The claim is ready for the N1 stage

[sarahpp]

I would just write to tell them that the account was now the subject of court proceedings and you will only be communicating with RBS direct.

[bill-k]

Did you get any reply or acknowledgement to the letter you sent to the DCA, Destiny ? If not, then send another letter, preferably with a copy of the original, and demand an acknowledgment of it.

 

Overdrafts is a grey area, I believe. A bank account is not covered by the CCA as far as I know, but the fact that an O/D is some form of loan suggests that it might then become covered. But I think the only agreement there is would have been the original agreement made when the account was first opened. A copy of this may be obtainable via DSAR, but not necessarily, although I don't think any contract or agreement should be destroyed, even if other data is - so I would push for it if I were you.

 

JMVHO, of course.

[chezt]

I think banks tend to be a bit more 'acute' with the keeping of such records too as opposed to catalogues etc ... just stick to you tack as the others have suggested & write back to them telling them you ar dealing with RBS direct & the account is currently in dispute ... I;d be tempted to write to RBS too letting them know how disgusted you are that they have referred the acc to a DCA when it is clearly in dispute.

 

I wonder if you could use any of my recent 'toxic' letter to Abbey credit card in a letter to RBS?

[Guest willowb]

I'm sure you could copy and paste a few extracts for her to use Chezt, I think she'd snowed under right now with the directions hearing. I'll help out with the 'fine tuning' if needed:)

 

Wxxx

[chezt]

I'm sure you could copy and paste a few extracts for her to use Chezt, I think she'd snowed under right now with the directions hearing. I'll help out with the 'fine tuning' if needed:)

 

Wxxx

 

Yep sure can do if u think it can be used here ... off to grab my scissors!

[chezt]

Yep sure can do if u think it can be used here ... off to grab my scissors!

Sorry I've been a while .... !

 

Dear Shabbey!

 

ACCOUNT NUMBER: xxxxx

 

I am in receipt of your recent letters regarding default notices and threatening court action, CCJ’s, Baliffs etc relating to the above account. It is also noted on my statements that my ‘account is scheduled to be defaulted and sold to a third party’. You are aware by now that this account is currently in dispute and you have received several items of correspondence from myself confirming this. I have also received a letter from your Customer Advocate Office Manager, Gavin Byrne assuring me my dispute is being dealt with and apologising for the delay in responding to me. I really find it appalling that you chose to conduct yourselves in this manner when dealing with my account. I can only assume that your departments do not communicate with each other as I am sure this mixed communication would not have been issued if this were the case. I trust you will be taking necessary action to remedy this without delay.

 

I now request with some urgency that no further action is taken with regards to this account as I presume you should be well aware that as a financial institution governed by Banking Code Standards, youare unable to default an account which is in dispute. Abbey Credit Card and MBNA Europe Bank Limited are therefore in danger of breaking Section 13.6 of the Banking Code where it states that a financial institution may only pass on details of debts to the Credit Reference Agencies if the debts are not in dispute. May I also draw your attention to a recent Banking Code Standards Board bulletin (issue no 21) where it highlights the issue of account closures due to claims regarding unfair charges.

 

Also, considering the fact that the balance due includes mainly unlawful charges and interest of which I am claiming and the minimum monthly repayment figure calculated reflects this inaccurate balance, I would draw your attention to Section 14 (1) of the Data Protection Act, where it states....'If a court is satisfied on the application of a data subject that personal data of which the applicant is the subject are inaccurate, the court may order the data controller to rectify, block, erase or destroy those data and any other personal data in respect of which he is the data controller and which contain an expression of opinion which appears to the court to be based on the inaccurate data.'

 

If necessary I will issue court proceedings and will point out to the Judge that if a somewhat decreased monthly payment was required by Abbey then at that time this payment may well have been met by myself and therefore your terms and conditions upheld and a default marker unwarranted.The defaulted amount is not an inaccurate reflection of the debt owed as it is mainly made up of unlawful charges and interest and therefore I will be requesting an order for the default to be removed.

 

If you have already entered a default on my file then I request that you take action immediately to remove this. This entry should be totally removed and an amendment will not be acceptable.

 

Once again I will confirm my request as follows:

 

I calculate that you have taken £xx.xx plus £xx.xx which you have charged me in interest for the sums which you have taken. Total £xx.xx.

 

In addition to this amount, I also claim interest at an annual rate of xx.xx% compounded daily as set out in the attached schedule of charges. I believe this rate to be justified under the principle of mutuality and reciprocity: it is based on your standard rate for purchases that would be applied under the terms of the above-mentioned account. Therefore the total amount owed as of today’s date is £xx.xx (this amount is increasing daily) I have already provided you with the schedule of the charges which I am claiming but for your convenience I enclose another updated as of today.

 

I have already advised you that I intend to commence court proceedings in relation to my dispute and have until now held commencement in the hope that you would settle my claim without the need for unnecessary costs and was sure you would consider this to be a more cost effective option. Unfortunately it does not appear that you are taking my request at all seriously and therefore leave me no alternative but to commence proceedings without further delay. I shall of course allow you a further 7 days in which to consider the contents of this letter and to refund the full amount of my claim as detailed above.

 

I trust this clarifies the situation and assure you that this will be my final correspondence in relation to this prior to a court claim if necessary.

 

Yours faithfully

 

I have just copied it in it's entirety for now as I'm about to dash to work ... back later - Hope you can use some of it

 

[Guest willowb]

Ok...toddler is snapping at my heels but I'll have a go....

 

ACCOUNT NUMBER: xxxxx

 

I am in receipt of a recent letter from the DCA holding the above account regarding payment arrears. You are aware by now that this account is currently in dispute and you have received items of correspondence from myself confirming this. I have also made it quite clear that I will only be corresponding with RBS whilst the debt is in dispute.

 

I have already advised you that I intend to commence Court proceedings in relation to my dispute and have until now held commencement (as is my duty under pre-action protocols) in the hope that you would settle my claim without the need for unnecessary costs and felt sure you would consider this to be a more cost effective option. Unfortunately it does not appear that you are taking my request seriously and therefore I intentend to commence proceedings without further delay.

 

Yours faithfully

Has she been defaulted? I'd forgotten.

 

Are you going to start the claim now Destiny? I would! I know you have a lot on but if you post up the figures we can help you with the POCs. I would download the N1 form from the HMCS website and attach the pocs. that way you can just copy, paste and print.

 

 

Wxxx

[Destinyofsouls]

Thanks very much you guys, I really appreciate this.

The POC I was going to use was this

 

IN THE BIF COUNTY COURT

 

 

BETWEEN

 

Dotty - CLAIMANT

 

And

 

RBS Plc - DEFENDANT

 

PARTICULARS OF CLAIM

 

1. The Claimant had an account, number xxxx, sort code xxxxx, ("the Account") with the Defendant.

 

2. During the period in which the Account had been operating the Defendant had automatically debited numerous charges to the Account in respect of purported breaches of contract on the part of the Claimant and also charged interest on the charges once applied. The Claimant understands that the Defendant contends that the charges were debited in accordance with the terms of the contract between itself and the Claimant.

 

3. A list of the charges (“the Schedule”) applied is attached to these Particulars of Claim.

 

4. The Claimant contends that:

 

a) The charges debited to the Account are punitive in nature; are not genuine pre-estimates of costs incurred by the Defendant; exceed any alleged actual loss to the Defendant in respect of any breaches of contract on the part of the Claimant; and are not intended to represent or related to any alleged actual loss, but instead unduly enrich the Defendant which exercises the contractual term in respect of such charges with a view to profit.

 

b) The contractual provision that permits the Defendant to levy such charges is unenforceable by virtue of

i) the Unfair Terms In Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 particularly but not limited to Regulations 5, 6 and 8 and Schedule 2, 1 e); and

ii); the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977, particularly but not limited to sections 3 and 11 and Schedule 2 and;

iii) the common law and Case Law relating to liquidated damages and penalties in contracts.

 

 

c) To the extent that it is found that the Defendant’s charges are for the provision of banking services the Claimant contends that the price thereof is unreasonable pursuant to section 15 of the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982.

 

6. Accordingly the Claimant claims:

 

a) the return of the amounts debited to the Claimant’s account in respect of charges in the sum of £xxxx and interest charged thereon of £xxxx as detailed in the attached Schedule. Total £xxxxxx .

b) Court costs £xxxxx

 

c) Interest pursuant to section 69 County Courts Act 1984 of £ xxxxx

d) Interest pursuant to section 69 County Courts Act 1984 from the date of the claim until the date of judgement/settlement at a daily rate of £ xxxxx

STATEMENT OF TRUTH

 

I believe that the contents of these particulars of claim are true

 

 

Full name: ___________________________________________

 

 

 

SIGNED______________________________________________(Claimant

[bill-k]

This looks to me as though you are not claiming any contractual interest - only statutory. Is that so ?

 

Whichever you are claiming, make sure that the date on your spreadsheet(s) is current, and then take the figures from that.

[Destinyofsouls]

charges in the sum of £xxxx and interest charged thereon of £xxxx as detailed in the attached Schedule. Total £xxxxxx .

Is that not contractual?

And this is S69 CCa interest @ 8%

Interest pursuant to section 69 County Courts Act 1984 of £ xxxxx

[Guest willowb]

If you are claiming contractual then miss C) out (it's just a case of having an 8% spreadie ready if it goes to a hearing). D) is ok....is that right Bill?

 

As for a) are you claiming back the interest that has already been charged on the account?

 

and I think that the word contractual needs to be added....

 

wait a bit though as I am unsure.

 

Wxxx

[Destinyofsouls]

Willow

a) is the charges plus overdraft interest on the charges as calculated on vamps s/sheet

[bill-k]

Para. (a) is the charges, and the apportioned interest on them, which was debited to the account each month. So this is all money which the bank has taken from the account already.

 

You then have the option of claiming s.69 or contractual interest on the total in (a)

 

If you have claimed contractual in the prelim & LBA, then you can claim it on this. If you haven't, then you should only claim s.69 interest on the amount in (a)

 

However, you can claim s.69 in the alternative, but that requires extra wording to your POC.

 

I think we could do with SuperBong here, as she's the POC queen these days, I reckon.

 

I'll give her a call - cooeeeeee !!!........Bong ? !!!!

[bill-k]

Willow

a) is the charges plus overdraft interest on the charges as calculated on vamps s/sheet

 

Yes, Destiny, that's correct.

 

The totals of Column C and Column J in Vamp's No5 spready - that's "Penalties Charged" and "Bank Interest on Penalties"

[Destinyofsouls]

Thanks Bill.

I claimed just charges and interest on those charges , not contractual. So I will claim S69 in c) and the S69 daily rate in d)

 

Is that right?

Please forgive me, but I have to go now. I will call in tomorrow afternoon to catch up. (Only have this PC at work)

Everyone have a great weekend

[bill-k]

Hang on - I'm missing something here. There seems to be some confusion.

 

Have you sent a prelim letter with a spreadsheet attached ?

 

Have you sent a LBA with a spreadsheet attached ?

 

If the answer to both questions is yes, then it looks like you have claimed contractual interest from them, as that is what was in the spready.

 

If the answer to either question is no, then do NOT file a claim at court, yet !! We all need to be sure exactly what it is you are claiming for Dottie.

[chezt]

POC wording for claiming contractual with an option of an alternative for the judge to decide ....

 

d) the Claimant claims contractual interest at an annual rate of XX.XX% compounded daily, from the date of each transaction to DATE OF N1 of £XX.XX, as set out in the attached list of charges. The claimant further claims interest compounded at the same rate up to the date of judgment or earlier payment.

The Claimant claims the rate to be justified under the principle of mutuality and reciprocity, and is based on the Defendant’s standard interest rate for purchases that would be applied under the terms of the above mentioned account.

Should the court find that this interest rate is not applicable, then in the alternative the Claimant claims interest under Section 69 of the County Court Act 1984 at the rate of 8% per annum calculated from the date of each transaction to DATE OF N1, which is £XX.XXand continuing until payment or the date of judgment at a daily rate of £X.XX.

 

Hope this helps ..... (obviously need to clear up the confusion first though!)

[Destinyofsouls]

Have you sent a prelim letter with a spreadsheet attached ?

 

Have you sent a LBA with a spreadsheet attached ?

Yes & Yes

On vamp's complex s/sheet. I entered charges on the Left as normal. On the right, I entered the date, amount of interest taken and the balance on that date. The spready then worked out the interest to claim. I then click on 8% interest tab at the bottom and it comes up with 8% S69 interest to claim with the N1

Is that OK?

 

 

[Destinyofsouls]

BTW I have just received dottys other account ( Royalties Gold) I have been searching through most of the threads relating to the monthly charge for this account but cannot find a definitive answer for the monthly charge from 2003 - 2007

[chezt]

BTW I have just received dottys other account ( Royalties Gold) I have been searching through most of the threads relating to the monthly charge for this account but cannot find a definitive answer for the monthly charge from 2003 - 2007

 

Do you mean how much is the charge for the royalties gold a/c?? (I think it was a tenner but I'll check n get back to ya ..... !)

[chezt]

Sorry ... just looked at my old statements & I cancelled mine before then ...