Re: Assignment of debts to DCA's

[PriorityOne]

 

I will have to do some more reading of the Data Protection Act to see where they get this 'right' from, but in any case as they haven't got a copy of the agreement themselves how on earth do they know what rights they have to share my data amongst themselves! I thought the 'right' arises from my consent given in the agreement and only to the extend originally agreed!

 

 

I think they have assumed the right... but without CCA, then they have no legal right. If they have the CCA, then they will have bought the contractual agreement, but as you would not have a contractual agreement with a DCA.... no CCA = no debt.

 

[humbleman]

Hi all

 

 

We would advise you that the purchase of accounts from original creditors also entitles the purchaser to all rights and benefits associated with the account in question. These rights and benefits include the purchaser becoming solely responsible for any defaults registered with the credit reference agencies. Moreover, the guidelines laid down for debt collection permits the transfer of data between two parties concerning the individual whom is liable for the debt or account being purchased. Consequently, divulging personal information in this matter does not contravene the Data Protection Act 1998 which has provisions for this transference.

 

Regards, Pam

 

I would be inclined to write to them and say that to the best of your knowledge there has never been any consent given to the original creditor by you to process your data.They should immediately delete any reference about this account on your credit file until such time as they are able to prove otherwise.

[InKogneeToh]

I would be inclined to write to them and say that to the best of your knowledge there has never been any consent given to the original creditor by you to process your data.They should immediately delete any reference about this account on your credit file until such time as they are able to prove otherwise.

 

Hi

 

Yes I will write something along those lines but I'm waiting until they default and commit a criminal act on the CCA request first (12 days up tomorrow) before hitting them with a nice reply! I am not expecting an agreement to be forthcoming as it was made 12 years ago.

 

Regards, Pam

[Guest Alison82]

Humm yesterday I called a dca that my topshop card had been sold to, I asked for my stements oing back to when the account was first opened and was told that they would have to request them from the origonal creditor and their was no guaretee that i would get them!! Humm if they debt belongs to them why would they need to request and info of that debt?? What are the chances that they have the origonal agreement or deed of asignment!?

 

I think I'll casually ask for a copy of that too!

[laureli]

Hi,

 

Ive got a quick question on this - HSBC sold a debt to Metropolitan something or other in 2000 in error, and then I think it was sold on again to a Shakespears... but Ive now got Lowells saying they bought it from HSBC.

 

HSBC deny this - and have said they wont provide info on the debt to anyone but metropolitan.

 

Is this correct?

 

And how can lowell say they're acting on hsbc's behalf when they dont even have the CCA or statements?

 

Can they do this?

 

Ta,

Laureli

[InKogneeToh]

Hi Laureli and welcome to CAG

 

That is a very interesting question and one that I have not really considered the implications of until your post.

 

My hubby's debt was also previously sold by B/Card to a different DCA (can't remember which off hand) and then sold on to Lowell.

 

DCAs buy debts, but do not normally get the credit agreements that go with them from the original creditor. I think this is purely because it would involve a lot of extra work for the creditor who is, after all, losing money by selling these debts to DCAs for a fraction of their true value.

 

I wonder if it is the case that the original creditor's obligation to send the copy to the DCA on request only applies between them and the first DCA that buys the debt.

 

It is only with that first DCA that the original creditor had the contract of sale so in your case that would appear to be the reason why HSBC will only send a copy to Metropolitan.

 

This is quite interesting and I will try to get other opinions on this as it might affect other members' cases.

 

Also, Lowell cannot claim to be acting 'on behalf' of HSBC if they have bought the debt because that transaction makes them the new creditor in their own right and transfers the original rights under the agreement to them. This is only, of course, if they can produce a copy of that agreement to show that they have any rights or that a debt even exists.

 

Regards, Pam

[SHERLOCK]

'Usually all we need from a client is a copy invoice and this enables us to do the rest. Interest is calculated and added to the debt, when proceedings are issued, and this quite often covers our charges'

 

quote above from a debt recovery department! don't remember who but is it really a surprise anymore?

 

I assume that bcoz these financial institutions are so vast that DCA's and Solicitors alike, take their word for it!

[Peterbard]

Hi

The transfer of a debt should be accmpanied by a notice of assignment as well as the orriginal agreement I think it is section 189 that says that the body that is persuing the debt takes on the role as the creditor.

 

Peter

[SHERLOCK]

yet the DCA never provide it (the original agreement), NOT IN MY INSTANCES ANYWAY.

 

They seem to always refer back to the creditor. Are they presuming that we won't ask?

[Peterbard]

Hi

 

I just read laureli's letter i have had experiance with this company send them a cca request the threaten them with action, once they now that you now the score they will back off.

 

Regards

Peter

[Peterbard]

yet the DCA never provide it (the original agreement), NOT IN MY INSTANCES ANYWAY.

 

Yes a lot of dca are sending their accounts back when they recieve the request (see the other thread"Loan company cannot.."

Seems we have got them on the run.

Peter

[InKogneeToh]

Hi

 

The issue I would like opinions on is the fact that HSBC have said that they will only send copy agreements to Metropolitan, i.e. the first of the DCAs and the only one that they actually had a contract with.

 

The point I am getting at is, do subsequent DCAs actually even have the right to request the copy documents from the first creditor where the contract of sale was not made between them and the original creditor?

 

See what I mean?

 

Regards, Pam

[Peterbard]

HI

 

Yes i do but the proceedur is that the documents should be passed on to the dca along with a notice of assignment and then to the next dca if the dca persuing the debt does not posses them then they cannot legitimately pursue the debt as the debt is not legally assigned to them.

is that OK

Peter

[Peterbard]

HI

 

As an addition to the above this only applies when the debt is purchased from the previos"owner"not when the dca is acting on behalf of them.

 

Peter

[CG7]

Peterbard.......But how do we know whether they have bought or just acting for barclaycard the reason i ask is that Barclaycard sold my account to Robinson Way in 1996 and then they sold it on again 10 yrs later in 2006 to Lowell Portfolio or did Robinson way just act for barclaycard.

[laureli]

Id just like to point out at this point that HSBC have had to go back to metropolitan (the DCA they actually sold my debt to), as they no longer have ANY paperwork for it - my original cca would be ten years old now.

 

We're awaiting info from Metropolitan to fix the mess that hsbc have made in the first place (the debts actually a mistake).

 

Apart from that Lowell are actually statute barred on this - a payment was alledgedly made to metropolitan in jan 2001, and then no contact was made since then to now... but thats just to complicated to argue. I was a student at the time, and i owed money to everyone - If i got a letter i called em up and offered pence to get them to leave me alone!

 

I never realised it was a mistake. Once this is sorted with HSBC I'll be asking for a refund.

 

Anyway - Im not even sure if HSBC knows what its talking about. they reckon they wont speak to lowell but who knows. They dont have the info themselves, so good luck to them I say.

 

I actually would like them to take me to court. I'll quite happily turn up and grin at them.

[sequenci]

can i just point our that HSBC ARE METROPOLITAN, it's the same people.

 

Metropolitan are HSBC's in-house DCA.

 

hope this is of help.

[debt_mountain]

Caledonian Express, UK - Credit, Loans and Banking : Mortgages, Remortgages, Loans (secured and unsecured), Car Finance, Credit Cards, Bank Accounts

in this page (follow the link) it says

 

A default can only be legally issued ONCE on the same debt. It has a 'life-span'of six years and must come off the credit reference agencies files after this time - this is the law under the Consumer Credit Act.

 

Where in the CCA does it say this?

 

Is this only for defaults or any payment history shared.

 

I have never yet seen proof that this is a law. but am willing to be corrected

[tifo]

it is not the law, but a time period agreed by the finance industry, and seems to be also accepted by the ICO.

[debt_mountain]

The copy of agreement has to of the EXECUTED agreement, i.e. the actual one you signed. It does not have to show the signature box but it has to show all other details relevant to your actual transaction i.e. the date of the agreement, the amount of credit and the total charge for the credit (or how it was to be calculated plus the interest rate (applicable at that time).

why does it not have to show the signature? Do you know where this information is available CCA section etc?

 

thanks I have had a look at the CCA but can't see anything releiving them of needing a signed document.

[debt_mountain]

it is not the law, but a time period agreed by the finance industry, and seems to be also accepted by the Information Commissioners Office.

thats why I was asking and thought someone had dug up a law somewhere.

[InKogneeToh]

Hi Laureli

 

I think you can quite confidently get on with your life and leave the 3 stooges to squabble amongst themselves! If, as you say, the last payment (and any formal acknowledgement) was about 6 years ago then the debt is statute barred. If not, it looks highly unlikely that an agreement is still in existence. Keep us up to date with developments and good luck!

 

Regards, Pam

[laureli]

got a letter from hsbc and they cant find a CCA = and they said that the debt collection agency (im assuming metropolitan) dont have it either.

 

so good luck to lowell I guess.

 

whats more dumbass hsbc cant actually find anything on the managed loan either - and it appears I may have mistakenly paid about 220 pounds on the metropolitan debt before I dont know what happened... but I stopped paying.

 

Stupid thing is - I shouldnt have paid it. my credit cards were paid off by the managed loan - hsbc had issues with giving me a chair to sit on, its not like they were chucking credit at me. I had a lot of debts at the time, and was a naive student. I paid whatever came through the door - or at least offered them something to stop them taking me to court. If id have thought about it- and done some homework I could have avoided all this and not spent any cash.

 

Im really pee'd off at hsbc as they're not very helpful = ive banked with them for over 20 years - ive never not banked with them, and they set me up on a managed loan and took my credit cards off me. I wasnt even allowed a cheque book or a switch card. and then they carry on charging me for a credit card they wont let me have.

 

... when this all started I just wanted lowell to go away - now I want hsbc to give me that overpayment back, and some compensation for an incorrect credit reference, and 4 days wasted trying to sort this (and thats only with the bank - thats not including lowell).

[InKogneeToh]

Well, some serious letter writing ahead of you now then. Give them strict deadlines to respond to your requests for repayment, compensation etc. and if they don't play ball then take 'em to the cleaners!

 

Keep us posted and we'll try to advise when needed.

 

Regards, Pam

[InKogneeToh]

Hi

 

Update on Lowell

 

They have just become 'criminals' again as the 12 working days + 1 month are up today and no copy agreement received.

 

I will wait until Monday and then fire off a suitable 'on your bike' letter.

 

Regards, Pam