Claiming charges back

[martinwhite]

Surely the major point (which I may have missed someone else covering) is that IF the banks start charging for basic services because the penalty charges have been outlawed, then that is the final nail in the coffin for them legally. This would prove that, year on year, the banks KNOWINGLY made charges for breaches of contract WAY WAY over the actual cost incurred, i.e. not a genuine pre-estimate. Even the banks know that would start an avalanche of claims. It could go back beyond the 6-year threshold too as we could prove it was done in full knowledge (if it was being used to fund free banking).

 

I expect the banks to increase overdraft rates, reduce interest when in credit etc rather than p155ing EVERYONE off to this extent. Of course, if it started with one bank, and all the others followed suit over 5 years or so, then it would become accepted practice. Some people are so lazy they would never change their banks whatever the banks got up to.

[Movingon]

I spotted this angle too... saying that free banking is out of the window because they aren't allowed to charge these fees is tantamount to saying that they were making a profit on them; it's an admission of guilt. Personally I don't see them doing it.

[colour-me-happy]

..and, in my opinion, one that should be addressed urgently.

 

I think I may draft a letter to my MP (and maybe suggest that others do the same), in light of the revelation that banks are going to start making charges for their 'services'.

 

Although, I'm not sure what to ask him to do about it?

 

What do you think? What about a petition to get the law changed back?

 

I totally agree with what you are saying but I think employers would strongly oppose going back to paying wages in cash as it would then, in turn cost THEM money to have the cash delivered because I think there would be a health and safety concern if they sent an employee to the bank to collect the cash (talking about large companies with big payrolls).

 

I also think there would be an increase in armed robberies, I worked for Royal Mail, I was involved in the security of the cash vehicles nationally and they have AT LEAST 5 armed robberies a WEEK (that was considered a quiet week!) Maybe I am being overly dramatic, I'm just speaking from my experience of large amounts of cash being carried.

 

I don't know what the answer is though!

[fallen404]

Surely the simplest solution would be for the government to set up a bank of it's own (sort of). They'd then be able to issue benefits claimants with accounts that the DSS had main control of, meaning that the state could enforce it's duty of care much more easily, helping those who really needed it (although I suppose it's a little alarming, given the possibilities if that control was mis-applied).

 

Quite frankly, I'd like it if they had regular basic accounts allowing DDs, etc to be set up, but with genuinely cost-reflecting charges and zero interest. My account's so rarely in credit that the net interest is usually about a penny.

 

Of course, being the government, such a scheme would be tendered out to the lowest bidder, rather than actually being done as a national service, meaning that the service would probably be very poor, and the whole thing would devolve into little more than legitimised tax-farming.

[EricTheRed]

I worked at GE Capital and they sent people out to India to voice coach them in different accents.

[monkey_uk]

Surely the simplest solution would be for the government to set up a bank of it's own (sort of). They'd then be able to issue benefits claimants with accounts that the DSS had main control of, meaning that the state could enforce it's duty of care much more easily, helping those who really needed it (although I suppose it's a little alarming, given the possibilities if that control was mis-applied).

 

They did (in a way), the Post Office Card Account, which they're scrapping in a year or two.

 

Draw your own conclusions.

[Tinkerbelle]

They did (in a way), the Post Office Card Account, which they're scrapping in a year or two.

 

Draw your own conclusions.

 

[dave]

I spotted this angle too... saying that free banking is out of the window because they aren't allowed to charge these fees is tantamount to saying that they were making a profit on them; it's an admission of guilt. Personally I don't see them doing it.

 

Obviously, yes.

 

But the banks could argue that as they are no longer allowed to 'recover their costs' that they have to recover that money elsewhere.

 

Thus not admitting that they were more than covering their costs.

 

We know it's a crock - but as they won't release information as to how they arrive at the figures for penalites, we can prove nothing.

[vix2000]

regarding benefits, etc, surely the govt could give benefits in the form of a cheque (the old giro) to be cashed at a bank(the old post office) Was that system so difficult? people had their cash and it was in their hands what they did with it. Ditto employers. Years ago I worked for social services and our salary was a co-op bank cheque which we could take to the local branch and get cash. Banks have large amounts of cash anyway so armed robberies wouldn't be an issue. The trouble is, in those days you could go to your local high street and pay your electic, gas phone and other bills in cash. All these local offices have now gone and people are penalised for paying by good old fashioned cash.

[Guest Lueeze]

they got rid of the system to save money im sure...think of man hours in handing/sending them out...its all a [problem], I get incapacity and I opted for it to go into my bank account, for the last 8 weeks Its been paid by Giro, god knows the left arm doesn't know what the right arm is doing!

[kralc]

Banks should not be allowed to take customers money directly from their accounts. If they consider that a customer owes them money then they should invoice the customer stating what the charges are for then the customer can either pay up or refuse.

This would put an end to the whole saga of these punitive charges, because the banks would be taking the customers to court instead, and have to justify these outrageous amounts.--

[Abandon All Fear]

Hi Guys,

 

I'm a newbie, this is my first post and I will soon be posting my own claim to HSBC, Alliance & Leicester, and some loan companies.

 

I totally agree with Kraik. Half my problem has always been being charged an extra £30 taking me further into red and depleting my ability to level up and reducing my next wages.

 

If we were sent invoices it would make the whole process transparent and allow us the time to find the money needed to pay what was owed. However, one problem with this, the sheeple of this country would then see directly how much they were being fleeced. This would leave the banks exposed to protest and millions of claims.

 

Perhaps this idea is something we can write to our MPs about. Is there already something in law already that allows us to request some sort of invoice, rather than the bank just dipping into our pocket?

[ilaister]

I think maybe one of the problems with businesses switching back to a pre-1985 way of paying employees (Giro, cheque whatever) is the BACS system.

 

I'm pretty certain that the whole taxation system is now geared up to use the BACS 'clearing house' to remove your National Insurance contributions, Tax, Student Loan repayments etc as it's much more efficient than having the Inland Revenue poring over lists of payments made via cheque, Giro etc. Plus it's much more legit, as they can be certain of exactly what each and every person in legal paid employment is being paid.

 

Can't see any massive changes in the near future myself despite the stuff being bandied about 'post-May'.

[fivelaws]

I am a (very) small employer so I can tell you what the difference is for us of making salary payments via BACS or Cash;

 

Internet payment - 30p

Direct Debit - 32p

Cheque - 58p

Standing Order - 60p

 

Cash - 70p per £100.

 

The value of the electronic methods doesn't effect the cost, so paying somebody £1600 a month (very roughly the national average) by Internet payment costs 1.9p per £100, making cash nearly 40 times more expensive!

[thewifeandI]

I'd suggest that you join the Federation of Small Businesses (if you're not a member already) and have a look at their deal with the Co-op Bank for free business banking.

[natalie]

Surely the simplest solution would be for the government to set up a bank of it's own (sort of). They'd then be able to issue benefits claimants with accounts that the DSS had main control of, meaning that the state could enforce it's duty of care much more easily, helping those who really needed it (although I suppose it's a little alarming, given the possibilities if that control was mis-applied).

 

Could you imagine the chaos, just think tax-credits, I trust the government's ability less than the banks

[fallen404]

Actually, nat, that's not the problem: The problem is that the government tend to farm out all their schemes like that to the company who puts in the lowest cost bid, or who happen to be mates with one minister or another. This means that you get shoddy performance dirt cheap, because the idea of paying a reasonable amount for reasonable performance doesn't ever occur to them. It's no better than tax farming, IMO.

 

I don't know who said it, but generally speaking "those people who most desire power are usually those least suited to wield it." The only decent politician I've ever met is Lembit Opik. Still, at least he proves they're not all ****.

[linda1]

Hi This is my first time posting so I hope I'm doing this right. I agree that I would not like the Government doing it as they would farm it out to the cheapest operator and it would probably be worse than now.

 

I am having problems with A&L at the moment does anyone have any experience with them?

 

Thanks

[tim2718281]

Nothing is set in stone and each bank will be different but it looks like they will most likely either charge a monthly fee for the account or charge per direct debit and so on...

That seems unliklely to me, as any bank doing that would lose income.

 

Right now, most bank transactions are between an individual and a business; and banks charge businesses. And when a transaction goes between two different banks, the banks charge each other.

 

So, a bank that introduced charges would lose personal accounts, and with it the income that comes from transactions on those personal accounts.

 

There's a reason why banks offer free banking! It's because they make money from it.

 

Tim

[younganfree]

 

I am having problems with A&L at the moment does anyone have any experience with them?

 

Thanks

 

Linda, check out the A&L forum. You can also start a NEW THREAD of your own there.

[Allyxia]

Could you imagin if the governemtn set up their own banks???

 

They cant even do the job they are supposed to do ie runthe country, nhs, school, police etc etc

 

I used to work for them, and would love to tell a few tales but offical secrets act forbades it - doh!!!! (sound more impressive than it is)

 

I would call em muppets - but someone corrected me earlier on here for insulting muppets and thats is to true - muppets are more intelligent!!!

[jimmelling]

Banks are a business but they are providing a service which we the customers have to pay for. An Unlawful charge applied to your account is an act of misconduct. There are bank charge packages around for small businesses that help you identify unecessary charges to your account. Consultants will come and scrutinise your account and charge you 20% of the fees recovered. The point is the banks deliberately overcharge everyone, hoping that the vast majoority of customers dont notice.

The average account is charged circa £200 per annum in illegal fees. We are consumers and we have rights under the consumer act...use them!

[jimmelling]

If all the website members ( bank charge hell/penalty charges) moved one account to a newly formed CAG bank..."The peoples bank" it could set up in competition with all the others. Set up your parachute accounts here etc etc. Instead of administering a website...you could be running an online bank guys??

[Allyxia]

me thinks these guys got their hands full just running this site without starting up a bank!!!!

[Gordy2gb]

Have you guys actually ahd any money back for charges made by banks!