Advice needed re: Associates(Citifinancial) & Hillesden

[banker]

I apologise if this is not posted in the correct forum, but I’d be grateful for any advice on what to do in the following matter:

 

In 2000, I had a credit card with The Associates (now part of Citifinancial, I believe). I originally owed about £200, unfortunately I was unable to pay and now, with the charges that have been piled on, they claim that I still owe over £2000.

 

The matter was passed to a collection agency called Hillesden Securities Ltd and I had an arrangement to pay off the debt in instalments. I made regular payments, but Hillesden kept trying to increase these, they finally refused to accept any more payments in November, 2005.

 

I’m sure that, by now, I must have paid the original debt and in light of what I have read about these charges being ‘unlawful’ I am reluctant to pay anymore. I have applied to Citifinancial and Hillesden for my records under the DPA (using the templates in the library) but I’m still waiting to hear from them.

 

In the meantime, Hillesden have just had a County Court Judgement made against me, without any hearing, requiring the amount to be paid in full in the next 28 days.

 

What I’d really like to do is have the CCJ ‘set aside’ but, it says that I only have 7 days in which to do this and without the records from Hillesden or Citifinancial I can’t really prove anything.

 

What I’d really like to know is:

 

1) What grounds could I use to have the CCJ set aside?

 

2) Should I be dealing with Hillesden (who are unprepared to even discuss the matter, because they can only follow their client’s orders), Citifinancial (who now claim that this is out of their hands completely) or both?

 

Any help or advice would be appreciated, thank you.

[BankFodder]

First thing is that any action for charges is probably the original creditor. When they sell a debt, they sell rights and not the obligations.

However as you are being sued by the assignee of the debt, you can set off what you consider you are owed in charges against their claim.

If you are owed more than they are claiming against you then you will have to use the set off as a defence against the claim and then sue for the balance against the original creditor.

There is a usful discussion of it here:

http://www.debthelpuk.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=DHUL;action=display;num=1139449055;start=15

 

You have made your SARs against each of them but were they complete.

If not then I suggest that you redo them, including the £10 fee and as much information as to your identity as possible - account numbers, a utility bill and even a copy of your passport. I am suggesting this as it should pre-empt any attempt by them to delay on the basis that they need extra detail to satsify themselves as to your identity. If you were not in such a hurry I wouldn't advise this

 

Make sure that it is all copied and sent special delivery. Go to the Informaiton commissioner's site and look up the addresses of the two institutions on the regsiter. send the SARs to the address listed there. there is a link in the DPA FAQ in the library.

 

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Why did they get the judgment? Did you admit it? or was it a default?

 

In either case you can have the judgment set aside but much more straightforward in the latter case. There is a presumption in favour of setting aside and of letting you have your day in court.

 

Go to the court office and tell them you want to do this.

You will have to complete an application notice and pay a fee.

In order to set aside you will have to show that you have a real prospect of defending the claim.

Also you must show that you are acting promptly so get a move on.

 

I suggest that you get the form and come back here. PM me that you are back. Post a succinct chronology with figures and complete enough so that we don't have to waste too much time asking and answeing questions. and we'll prepare the application notice for filing on Tuesday.

Actually, I'm sure that there is an application notice form on the court service website which is linked in the library. Find it and link me to it so that I can remind myself.

 

But make the SAR's without any delay.

[banker]

Thanks for your help.

 

I’ve resubmitted the SARs with as much info as I could, as suggested.

 

I’ve got the form N244, which I need to make an application to have the CCJ set aside, but any help you could give me on filling it in would be great. The forms can be filled in online at:

 

https://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/countycourtformsonline/SelectForm.go

 

 

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Chronology of events:

 

March 2000 – Ran into serious financial difficulty, had an outstanding debt of £278.40 on my Associates credit card. I could not pay, and so, with all the charges my debt spiralled out of control.

 

Unfortunately, I was swamped and lost track of things!!

 

2003 – Came to agreement with creditors and paid £10 per week towards my Associates debt.

 

Nov 2005 – Hillesden had taken over the debt and wanted to increase my payments to £100 per week. I objected and offered £20 per week, but they told me not to bother making any more payments, because they wouldn’t accept anything less than £100pw.

 

Jan 2006 – Court summons for debt of £2206.73. Responded to claim form and partly admitted the debt. In my defence, I tried to explain that Hillesden had deliberately caused my default and had not given me any info about where the figure of £2206.73 had come from. After all, I can’t challenge the amount or agree to it, because Hillesden won’t supply me with details.

 

17th March – Made DPA requests to Hillesden & Citifinancial. They cashed my £10 cheques, but I’m still waiting to hear from them.

 

27th March 2006 – Court order made.

 

12th April 2006 – Court order drawn.

 

26th April 2006 - Received two letters from court, one states that ‘Without hearing … Judgement be entered payable forthwith’ and the other explains that the claimant objected to the rate of payment I offered and the court decided that I must pay the claimant a total of £2261.73 forthwith.

 

Had I known at the time that these charges (which I'm sure comprise the bulk of the debt) are unlawful then I wouldn't have admitted to owing anything, because I'm sure that I have already paid more than I originally owed, even with interest. Unfortunately, I don't have an exact figure for the amount I have paid and neither Hillesden or Citifinancial have been able provide me with details so far.

 

Hope this helps to clarify things.

 

Thanks again and any advice is greatly appreciated.

[banker]

Sorry, forgot to mention that the Judgement against me was a:

 

Judgement for Claimant (after determination)

 

 

Don't know whether this makes a difference?

[BankFodder]

Whereabouts is the ocurt in which this was heard?

Have you got the original agreement to repay at £10 in writing?

I gather that you paid this amount for 2 years until you were stopped paying any more.

 

Have you anything in writing telling you to stop paying?

Did you bring any of this tothe notice of the court?

In 2003 was the interest stopped?

 

Do I gather that the orginal debt of £278 escalated into a debt of £2200 in 2 years so that aprox £2K is merely charges - and maybe interest opon charges?

In what way have they refused to supply you with details? Do you have this in writing?

Pm me on repsonse please

[BankFodder]

The link you have given to the n244 is to a pilot online filoing project which only applies to alimited number of courts.

Please check and let me know if the court you are using is one of those listed. If not you will have to link to the pdf form elsewhere on the court service site which are available for printing out.

I'm sorry that I am not able to find the link for you. I don't have the time.

[banker]

The link to the N244 form pdf is:

 

http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/courtfinder/forms/n244_eng.pdf

[banker]

Sorry about not posting this earlier.

 

 

1. The court which dealt with this was Northampton, I live in Nottingham though.

 

2. I don't have anything in writing, and yes I did pay for around 2 years.

 

3. Hillesden told me to stop paying over the phone, but never put it in writing. I feel a bit stupid for falling for this tactic, because it's now obvious what they were up to.

 

4. I tried to bring this to the attention of the court. On the defence form I stated that Hillesden had told me not to make any further payments and that I belived that they were deliberately trying to increase my debt in this way. I didn't get chance to explain any further because there wasn't a hearing.

 

5. The interest wasn't stopped at all and so around £2000 is charges and interest, as far as I'm aware.

 

6. They never refuse in writing, they just ignore my telephone requests and letters.

 

Had I known just how devious they were I would have made sure that I got some proof at the time. I've now started to keep better records, but this may be too little too late.

 

Thanks for all your help.

[banker]

Thanks for the help with the N244 form.

 

How does this sound for the Part C bit?

 

I (We) wish to rely on the following evidence in support of this application:

 

I had an account with Citifinancial Europe/Associates since 1999. Citifinancial Europe were the original owners of the debt which they sold (not sure if it's been sold or if they are just 'handling' it for Citifinancial - does this matter?) to the claimant Hillesden Securities Ltd in October 2004.

 

The debt commenced in March 2000 when I was in debt to the tune of £278.40 but I was unable to pay at the time.

 

I had been making weekly payments of £10 for around two years when, in November 2005, a spokeswoman from Hillesden contacted me by telephone. I was told that I needed to increase my payments to £100 per week. I felt that this was unreasonable and offered £20 per week instead. Hillesden rejected my offer and told me not to make any more payments unless it was to pay the debt in full.

 

In January 2006, I received a County Court Claim Form for the sum of £2206.73 (plus costs of £190).

 

I responded to the claim and partially admitted the debt, but was unable to provide an exact figure for the amount owed, in the time allowed. I have since discovered that the figure of £2206.73 consists largely of bank penalty charges which are unenforceable at Common Law and under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regs. 1999.

 

I have made requests in writing and by telephone to Hillesden and Citifinancial for an exact breakdown of the £2206.73 debt but they have so far failed to reply.

 

In April 2006 a judgment was made for the claimant without a hearing at which I could explain the situation more fully.

 

**********************************************

 

Any comments or suggestions are appreciated.

[Dawn Thomas]

Dear All,

 

I'm looking into the practices of debt collection. Your experiences and knowledge would be invaluable to me. If you wouldn't mind dropping me an email at: PERSONAL EMAIL REMOVED I would be most grateful and would be able to explain my interest in more detail.

 

Thanks and best of luck!

 

Dawn

[banker]

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