Drove from France to london - Picked up 6 ULEZ TfL charges because French hybrid car was not pre-registered on their site - nor knew you had too!! EPC Chasing

[F18]

In laws received six of these at their home in France after visiting by car, totalling over €1000. The areas described are also out of ULEZ zone. Smacks to me of fakery and posing as tfl… is that the thought of others too? May this post also serve as an alert to others!

 

Euro Parking Collection France.pdf

[dx100uk]

ignore

 

dx

 

[Ethel Street]

This article in The Guardian last month explains what's going on here. It seems the invoice may be genuinely from TfL, ie not a fake or a phishing scam, but that doesn't mean you should pay it. Follow dx100's advice.

 

EU motorist fined almost £11,000 after falling foul of London Ulez rule | London | The Guardian

WWW.THEGUARDIAN.COM

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French hire car met emissions standard but had not been registered with TfL, resulting in penalty notices

 

Incidentally, you say "The areas described are also out of ULEZ zone" and the invoice just describes it as "A2 Rochester Way Relief Road". But around 1½ miles of the A2 Rochester Way Relief Road is in the ULEZ, from the A207 Shooters Hill roundabout to the the A205 South Circular junction (it's on my patch!).

 

[F18]

Thanks Ethel and Dx, yes, on closer inspection you’re right. I disregarded as I assumed it was a scam due to the German bank account etc. 
 

Issue is that the foreign car was not registered in advance with TFL so they don’t know if it met the standards (it does as it’s hybrid). Tfl's website say that until registered cars should pay the charges (ULEZ and Congestion charge if applicable) and apply for refund after registered. These weren’t paid as assumed a compliant car wouldn’t get fined. 
 

im guessing the best course of action would be to register the car retrospectively which will confirm it as compliant and then if any more letters come in the post could use that as evidence it’s compliant…?

[F18]

Although perhaps that admits fault to begin with so best not to register unless they’re going to visit again?

[dx100uk]

well no-one can enforce a TfL charge in a foreign country......

 

cant harm you to do what you are thinking of doing. but i would most certainly not be paying anything....... 

[F18]

Okay

 

out if curiosity I asked chat gpt, here’s the reply:

 

If the fine was issued because you failed to register your foreign vehicle with TfL in advance, and your vehicle would be compliant with the ULEZ standards if it had been registered, then you may have a case to appeal the fine.

 

You should contact the euro parking collectors who issued the fine and explain the situation, providing evidence that your vehicle meets the ULEZ standards and that you were not aware of the registration requirement.

 

You may also want to explain any mitigating circumstances that may have contributed to the oversight, such as language barriers or unfamiliarity with the ULEZ regulations.

 

Very accurate but chat gpt will no doubt advise to “follow the rules” which in this case could backfire.

Perhaps providing epc with proof of compliance would be best only if a second series of letters is received?

[dx100uk]

EPC did not issue the charge TfL did.

Ignore ERC they are only powerless middle men.

 

there are Govt forms you can use to officially appeal to TfL.

 

dx

 

 

[Ethel Street]

This is your in law's own vehicle (not a hire car)? So they will be likely to use it drive through the ULEZ again in future?

 

If so,  now you know about the requirement to register it makes sense to do so to avoid future hassle, quite apart from helping you with the charges already issued.

 

Register a foreign vehicle - Transport for London

TFL.GOV.UK

 

[F18]

Have registered the vehicle now and will not do anything with epc but might send a note to TfL themselves 

[dx100uk]

it might pay you to use the right forms.

 

 

[dx100uk]

just to check the registered keeper of the vehicle did not receive any of the 6 PCN's directly? so thats your route as far as i can make out.

 

dx

 

[F18]

Thanks for info re forms. The registered keeper of the vehicle received all 6 as letters addressed to them at their home address directly in France from an address in Sweden

[dx100uk]

received all 6 what? The TfL PCN's ? or letters from whom? mentioning each one but not the PCN's themselves? TfL are not in sweden!!

thats why those forms are useful ,

 

if each PCN was not directly received by the RK then appeal each one individually on that ground alone directly to TfL using the correct forms.

 

that will reset things, and then each will be cancelled when TfL are told the car met ULEZ regs as it's a hybrid.

 

a lot of work sure.

 

the other alternative is to just simply ignore everything , but that might have repercussions should the vehicle ever visit the uk again.

 

 

 

[F18]

6 of the attachments in the first post - each one in the same format but for a different location in London and each at €283.50. Each one has a unique reference number and “contravention” number. These 6 letters are not the PCN’s themselves?

 

I’ve located all 6 PCN’s on TFL website with the option to challenge each one. The PE3 form says it requires to be sworn in front of a solicitor or something so surely I can just use the TfL appeal process available online? I have 5 days out of the 28 left

[dx100uk]

26 minutes ago, F18 said:

These 6 letters are not the PCN’s themselves?

NO!! scam letters pay us not TfL!! with scam fees on top!

 

 

do it online yep...

 

dx

 

 

 

 

[F18]

Alright thanks - tried online several times with tfl and although all the PCN details and the option to challenge are there for all 6 PNCS, end result is always "sorry something went wrong". So I called tfl and they said that's because the vehicle is foreign, and that I need to challenge with EPC plc directly over the phone.

 

They also advised that even if the vehicle wasn't registered prior to arrival, if I can provide proof that vehicle is compliant the PCNs should be cancelled.

 

But....should I call/contact EPC? Just wary that might open a can of worms in some way as overwhelming advice is to ignore them?

[dx100uk]

no your never ever call anyone or talk on the phone about any 'debt' matters.

 

i would simply write to TfL now making ref to the 6 PCN's and providing proof of the vehicle used.

 

or use the forms but send them individually .

 

dx

 

[F18]

Okay, I've submitted an online message to tfl stating the below with evidence attached, and I'll also post a hard copy version.

I printed out the forms PE3/PE2 as well but I see none of the 3 options on PE3 (I did not receive PCN, I made representations with 28 days or I appealed and was rejected) apply to me, since I cannot appeal online via tfl (gives error) and I don't want to appeal directly to EPC plc. So I assume I can only submit PE3 for each PCN when and if TFL reply to my emailed & posted "challenge".

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I'm writing on behalf of my French in laws who cannot speak English and who received 6 PCNs totalling £1440 for driving their compliant Hybrid vehicle in the LEZ/ULEZ zones earlier this year. They only just received letters about the PCNs at their home address hence only now contacting. I attempted to challenge all the PCNs on the tfl website as this option was available, but each time it resulted in an error. I further do not wish to contact EPC plc regarding the PNCs since they are a third party. I hereby attach evidence of the vehicle registration document and the registration of the vehicle with EPC plc proving compliance. I await confirmation that the 6 PCNs are cancelled as the vehicle is fully compliant. The PCNs are XXXXX. Many thanks in advance, XXXXX

[dx100uk]

2 minutes ago, F18 said:

I did not receive PCN

the rk did not received the pcn's..... post 1 is NOT the pcn's .

 

dx

 

[F18]

Ahh. Where are the PCNs then? "receiving the PCN" would be actually a real letter from tfl then I guess, not EPC plc third party?

Edited May 4, 2023 by F18

[dx100uk]

I'd go look here we've probably got previous pdf files in post of what A tfl PCN looks like 

But bottom dollar as I explained posts ao, is the RK did not receive the 6 pcns so meets the PE2/3 criteria. Don't matter why, that's all that's needed to get them all reset 

 

Dx

[dx100uk]

On 03/05/2023 at 14:04, dx100uk said:

each PCN was not directly received by the RK then appeal each one individually on that ground alone directly to TfL using the correct forms.

 

[F18]

OK - got it thanks. I've prepped a written challenge and will post tomorrow. if the outcome of that is a rejection, I'll do the PE3 forms. Although I could in theory do those now on the grounds of "PCNs not received", it's a lot of bloody hassle to go to a solicitor and get them sworn...

[dx100uk]

you can do it for free at any county court i believe.

 

go read post 4 carefully in the forms thread

 

you can send by email too but remember you are outside of 21 days too......

 

dx