Money demands from someone who didnt perform the work,consumer rights?

[MOSS 41]

hi,

 

background-

 

wanted electric gates

used checkatrade to find person

husband paid £100 for a quote ( i know its ridiculous , i told husband no one gets paid to quote-first red flag)

electrician said ill do it for cost of materials plus £1000 labour will take four days maybe?

he asked for cost of materials to be transferred so he could order them, told us it was £2300 ( i know 2nd red flag, asking for money upfront)

when material delivered he did a couple hours one morning and one afternoon, placing motors on stone wall, but no electrical work or installation etc.

 

asked for reciepts for materials so we could claim vat back, he wouldnt supply saying i dont do that, you calling me a liar got abusive-just wanted reciepts for books

said dont be silly, he said forget it have the couple  of hours i did for free im not coming back - all in a message

 

first went to part supplier gate motors, to see if they would give us reciept, said cant because of GDPR but did confirm the amount he bought was 

significantly lower than £2300 (actually about £1600) and that he was pushy with them and didnt know what he was doing

gate motors have been great

 

got another firm agred to come in and  to 'install' the motors etc and photocells etc. mistakenly rang old electrician and said where are parts x y z we have paid for ?

this initiated a barrage of abusive texts and emails and threats to come to our house and rip stuff up or send in the 'heavies' to do it for him, id we dont pay his complete labour charge

as he has done 80% of the installation- he did not - no wires done parts missing etc so impossible and only 6 hours out of 4 days attendance.

 

resulting in police getting involved who gave us a number and blue light response to our address if we see him near, as they saw the abusive stuff.

they also rang him - resulting in it all going quite for some time 

 

got new electrical firm in it just wasnt working and 4 days in (£costing us £600) and going back and forth to gate motors

found parts were broken and missing resulting in us buying more parts on top of the £2300 another £250 as what he attached to wall was broken.

 

still not working as parts still missing and gate motors now taking over to complete with their own installer free of charge to get working as they feel sorry for us 

as whole gate set is not fit for purpose and broken.

 

 

now this first electrician is back threatening debt collectors , in 7 days when really as we are rejecting goods he should be giving us a full refund for the £2300 and £250 and consequential losses of others unable to fit because materials all broke £600

 

how do i get rid of this guy?

! hes not entitled to anything, hes unhinged, abusive, police involved etc

 

shall i just send him a letter before action claiming all our money back?

 

 

 

 

 

[MOSS 41]

hi apologies if clear as mud

 

we found KR electrcial services ltd on checkatrade as local electrical installer to do gates

he charged us £100 to quote 

he would supply and fit and sent a message saying ill charge parts plus £1000 labour 4 days required, ill by them for you instead of you going on line and buying as what was orginally intended as we wanted CAME system

 

he said he needed money upfront to order the parts £2300- we dont know what they were until delivered, they turned out to be a proteco (italian make) swing arm system.

 

 

he turned up one thusday afternoon, for about 1.5 hours placed some items on wall either side of gate

then turned  up friday morning, as said 'wont stay long its friday afterall!' so did a few hours in morning about 10-1 dug a channel across drive and put cable across.

 

waited for return monday- no show, asked and he said waiting on more parts- we asked what parts and while we are at it can we invoices to claim back for materials we  had paid for in advance- through a hissy fit and said no, are you accusing me or lying

we said no, just want to reclaim vat- he refused said im never coming back how those couple of hours on me.

 

called supplier gate motors who confirmed he massively ripped us off and he didnt pay anywhere near that for our parts

(now if the quote invoice was £xxx and accept it, we would have no claim over markups etc but the agreement was, just the cost as per supplier plus £1000 labour, ill send order  over instead of you ordering it yourself)

 

 

so we had to find new company, had missing parts, so we called him to ask for missing parts we paid for

he then started sending abusive messages asking for 80% of his labour quoted of £1000, as hed done all the work 

to point out- no electrics done or installation at all, just some hardware drilled to wall 5-6 hours of 4 days quoted.

 

turns out new company finds out parts broken and missing we ordered £250 or more parts and had to pay them £600 to install, still wouldnt work , turns out motors also faulty that he attached to wall. so still not got a working system

 

 

yet now he thinks he has he right for £1000 for labour on a system the new electric company actually wired in and installed and will use debt collectors in 7 days, whereas we have the right to reject as unsatisfactory and not fit for purpose, so just want all our money and consequential losses back, as he was the 'retailer' who provided faulty parts.

 

its within 6 months but after 30 days, but he cant repair and replace as inconvenient as we policee involved and blue light response if he comes near our property, after his threats and abuse

 

just want him to go away, hes unhinged-literally

 

 

[MOSS 41]

KR electricals were to supply and fit the parts- exact cost (agreed in writing) of parts plus £1000 labour

he made us pay up front for parts "=£2300

 

he walked off 6 hours into 4 day job but is now pursuing us for 80% of labour charge quoted so £800

 

but he didnt do 80% of the installation work another company did 4 days which we had to pay £600 (quoted 3 but ran over)  instead as hed walked off saying have those 5-6 hours for free (in writing) when he wouldnt supply invoices for the parts so we could claim through business.

 

turns out all goods he supplied faulty and broken anyways- so still dont have working system 

 

 

he doesnt have a website

[MOSS 41]

no not yet finished , it still doesnt work and and hasnt been fully installed

 

as parts missing from motors according to gate motors (manufacturer) and as such faulty and not repairable, would need a replacement

 

we didnt agree to a mark up price , that was the point the contract written between us was 

we buy the kit we want and he will charge £1000 to install

 

he then said send me the money and ill order to save you time

i agree if he just gave us a whole price to agree to then you accept whatever the mark up is within that while price quoted and accepted , but that was not our agreement he was a labour only price plus actual cost of materials we were meant to order but he took over, thats why we wanted reciepts 

 

anyways 

out of pocket by 

 

£2300 transferred to him (all parts actually come to £1400 according to manufacturer)

£600 to electricians for four days work who had to repeatedly liase with manufacturer with videos to find out why not working- it was a process of elimination so took time

£250 for new circuit board as his provided never worked

£90 for new photocells and he snapped off insides when attached to walls

£130 x 2 metal gate posts ruined with numerous holes, as he placed photocell part 2cm from gate on post but instruction manual said 15cm, this was stopping sensors and openings new electrician moved to correct position on wall.

 

out time for harassment and police involvement probably not claimable.

 

i still have all this equipment that doesnt work- so still not installed and all because what he supplied was faulty, there are so many faulty parts now, it really is becoming a case of gate system is not only not satisfactory but not fit for purpose

 

so when we dont even have working gates because what he supplied is faulty, damaged property from incorrect installation of hardware and another electrician did all the wiring installation is infuriating

 

 

 

 

 

 

ps 

hes not limited its just KR Electrical services 

bridgwater road 

bleadon

 

according to facebook page

[MOSS 41]

yes im dealing with manufacturer at moment to get replacements etc 

 

i dont care for court claim, although he is a homeowner and yes has assets, hes a one man band, so it is an option

 

agreement was i text message and email, 

 

i just want him to go away, as he has no claim for the amounts he wants £800 for labour nor could he prove  it in court

(we have cameras showing how long he was here) 

plus he took without our knowledge and agreement nearly £1000 more than required to pay for the parts

 

all parts were new, i actually think he knew they were broken (some parts you can visibly see) hence he had no intention of coming back

 

dont forget we have in writing not only in text but also in email, im not coming back im not claiming payment for those 6 hours , you can have them for free- which we replied and accepted

 

so where is his claim in law?

 

 

[MOSS 41]

thanks-

 

he sent email couple of weeks ago out of the blue, pay up or going to debt collectors in 30 days and your costs will grow

we ignored him

 

now another email last night- 7 days till debt collectors like a count down- we ignored it

 

its the fact he is saying debt collectors will start in 7 days - hes not entitled to more money and the cheek of it 

just ignore them and if they try and escalate, do a claim or counter claim?

 

through business years ago we employed a debt collection agency cost a few hundred pound and got nothing out of it at all

waste of money as a customer, cant see him paying a few hundred pound to engage them

 

 

ive retained all messages and emails

[MOSS 41]

i think he doesnt know what hes doing 

a) sending ranting email with 30 days to pay of debt collectors 

b) sending 7 day countdown to pay or legal action ranting email 

 

 

so neither had PAPLOC or are any viable form of letter of claim, i have no problem dealing with anything sent my way

 

question is start court claim myself now, or 

what for a court claim of £800 and hit him with counter claim of £3450 with all the evidence and watch him squirm

plus ask for adverse costs award in court as a vexatious/dishonest/non proveable claim.

 

[MOSS 41]

update -as i have been dealing with retailer of gate product direct - to get fixed or replaced- as cant go near the madman who threatens us.

 

They have now after months pulled out the -'well he actually paid for it ' card (with our money though!)

 

so really consumer rights dont apply just our terms and conditions- which is send back for repair only  and no reimbursement of anything- but only because we are being nice!

 

where does consumer law stand on this ?

faulty/broken products rejected in writing, to them the retailer and supplier of the product they accept its their product supplied

but as 'we ' didnt hand the money over directly to them we suddenly after all these months dont have rights ?

 

they know we cant go back to the crazy guy who threatens us, and the way i read it you can go to supplier of faulty product if you get no where with the third party as such??

 

any clarity

 

 

Edited September 6, 2021 by MOSS 41

[MOSS 41]

??

[MOSS 41]

thanks i was hoping that applied 

[MOSS 41]

Thanks for that -

 

he is Kurtis randle

kr electrical services (not limited ) 

 

we are now down to the fact that the product - specifically the right motor does not work 

 

everything else does ,

so for us to get working gates - we need retailer /supplier of product to repair replace the right motor as a faulty product not fit

for purpose 

 

they are

collecting out of ‘gesture of goodwill’ to repair though after strongly worded pre court action letter - the company gate motors 

 

 

1) currently not pursued KR as he threatens us our persons and damage to property and putting reviews all over our business pages - bullied us basically 

 

2) we just want working gates and a new right Motor will achieve this -

so we can get on with our life - but don’t want to pay for a new motor and it was supplied faulty (amount at other things now rectified) 

 

3) kr gone quiet, but if I get anything like

court demands for his labour that didn’t happen , o will slap him with a counter claim of. A few thousand ! So I dare him to do so 

 

 

that’s where we are at currently -

just want working gates - and never to see that rogue trader again 

 

don’t want to pay for new parts - that were supplied faulty 

 

 

 

[MOSS 41]

- if the faulty motor is repaired - then things could be ok and we can get on with life 

prob is - if it’s not the faulty motor - or it doesn’t work because something else communicating with it is wrong - we are back to a square one - I’m hoping it’s just the motor 

 

- yes all the threats were in writing - send around heavies etc , will destroy you online etc All  passed to police who gave us crime reference and said a blue light response is recorded against our address if we call them for help 

[MOSS 41]

Well he went and did it ! No pre action protocol 

 

just county court claim that is written so badly 

 

so here comes my

counter claim 

 

I shall post up and redact his claim now 

[MOSS 41]

Apologies - a lot on including grandad drawing last breath from COVID in hospital since 10 sept 

[MOSS 41]

Sent the emails 

 

that is the claim form - how it came ,

 

the only way to make it neater is type it out myself -

it’s all jumbled like a rant with no dates ( just wrote 2021 everywhere ) 

 

Claim doesn’t actually state under what legal right he makes the claim - damages / breach of contract - 

 

just rants he’s not been paid ,

stating all this work and hours he did not do 

 

it’s all faulty ,

still broken and other electricians - tried in vain to connect it up and get it to work 

 

hence why we tried going through retailer for repair/

replacement 

[MOSS 41]

Ok - I’ll have a go in morning 

[MOSS 41]

so here it is in one folder- the claim form attached 

 

want to do defence and counter claim today, to get off my desk

counter claim will be 

 

£2265 paid over for materials- system, not fit for purpose doesnt work and parts broken- still lays inoperable at front of house

200 circuit board - replacement bought to try and make system work as gate motors said it was broken what we had 

£90 sensors found broken so bought new ones to install

£600 consequential losses - other companies electricians bill to install gatesand electrics over 5 days- to no avail as parts wouldnt work

£130 gate posts damaged by claimant as he places a bracket in wrong location to gates against installation instruction-had to be moved, leaving damage

£? old stone wall damaged by bracket again in wrong place by claimant , against instructions and confirmed by specialists in email recently

 

rejected parts under consumer law - he cant return due to threats of damage and violence, so not in a position to repair or replace

what brackets/things he did attach to wall was without reasonable care and skill causing damage

beach of contract, he said im not coming back -get someone else (he has put this on his claim form!!!)

to note we also have an email saying have those few hours for free im not coming back to.

 

 

 

so what does he think his legal claim is?

 

i need

1) to write defence with correct legal jargon , but his particulars do not say under what legislation or right he claims

2) write counter claim with correct legal jargon

 

 

randle court claim.pdf

[MOSS 41]

claim

 

no accurate or detailed timeline

 

link to invoice doesnt work, but anyways he didnt complete 90% of work he did six hours before walking off saying gets someone else, confirmed by himself i claim.

 

his statement

1) quoted work, customer agreed and paid deposit, came across some problems with unusual gate opening size and customer didnt want underground motors, we searched and searched and kept customer informed, we kept to our agreed price, although  many more hours spent on this job

got guy from checkatrade had to pay £100 just for a site visit and to obtain quote (texts retained)- first red flag, never had to pay for someone to win a job before. we chased for quote 9 april 2021 £came to £3165, £2165 materails plus £1000 labour (texts retained ), it came through , we said too high and didnt agree (texts retained), all motor stuff types etc irrelevant and discussed before getting this quote on 9th April 2021, no hours spent on quote and cost us £100!!!

we didnt pay a deposit he made us pay £2265 for quote materials, even against terms on his 'later provided' invoice ( large jobs require deposit of £1000)

 

2)works started and started well, 2 full days with two men, chased drive out and layed all cables, attached arms and motors in place, rain fell heavily on third day, so had to postpone

have text on day he was supposed to start wednesday 28april 2021, saying its raining ill try tomorrow afternoon, he turned up on his own for two hours that thurs afternoon and titvated, nothing really done at all.

Came back next morning friday 30/04/2021 with his brother, at 10am late, left at 1.30pm as 'it was friday he said' 

in that time two brackets on wall and three cables in floor laid loose , in channel, no wiring, no connections, no installation nothing.

chased him on monday 3/05/2021, where are you- 'oh i have parts missing, ill try and get back when they turn up. no show or parts for a couple of weeks.

 

3)moved jobs about causing a headache to get job done ASAP

so? you started and walked off giving misinformation and lies, never came back

 

4)client demanded vat reciepts from my suppliers so he can claim back , i said its in my name and business so not possible, now im being accused of hiding stuff eg cost etc, either way he excepted my quote, so really not sure why this was an issue, as he had every chance to seek other quotes, he knew every part i used as i kept him informed as he was constantly asking

we have text message dated 5/04/2021 before quote and any visits, we would require reciepts for vat as he was to charge us cost plus £1000 labour- he was well aware it was a requirement, he was hiding what was paid, gate motors confirmed he charged us way more and paid a much lesser amount on his credit card

seek other quotes after we paid him £100 for quote? he wouldnt provide those pre agreed in writing reciepts

 

5)due to the above we fell out , i was also having personal issues and i said find someone else 

yes have text 'have those few hours for free and find someone else, im never coming back 

 

6)soon after 1-2 days i asked for a reasonable part payment for works carried out, he said i havent fulfilled my contract, so i agreed to come back and he accepted, but as my date given was a few weeks away, he refused and said they dont feel confident in having me back, yet no other reason, no issues brought up along the way, and no real reason apart from they wanted to try and get done quicker or have current works done free, as he said he was going to do it himslef before i contracted him , so i suspect as i had done most of it dean could finish the easy bit and avid paying me, also not replying if not paid before going to court i will add £25 a week non payment plus full amount

text evidence 11 may (not 1-2 days after) asking for 80%, said no - nothings done , you walked out

he said fine ill come back with a deliberatly long date attached, sent text saying no good -large gate many Kgs heavy propped up by your dead tarmac bag, dangerous to us and public-put this in writing, he said ok , ill do it earlier he didnt even turn up on earlier alotted day he suggested said dont trust him to turn up now at all, hes had his chances, everything is dangerous

then have those few hours for free text from him , because i wont give you reciepts or ever come back to people who dont trust me 

 

found another installer, they were visiting to quote 17th may 2021 , they came and found parts missing and broken, we rang him stupidly to find out where missing parts were, we had paid lots of money in advance for ? torrent of abuse 

on phone leading to email abuse and crime reference from police- emailed to admin of this site over 18-19th may 2021

 

although new guys spent 5 days (meant to be three for £400) costing us £600, gates still wont work, we  had to buy new motors, circuit boards, sensors, trying to claim of retailer as well under third party rights.

 

so no working gates still and parts faulty, not fit for purpose, suitable all money taken by this trader in advance who has the nerve to try and claim off us

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[MOSS 41]

this was my draft defence 

and reasons for counter claim as required on form

 

Ok? to tidy up and send 

 

 

 

want to get off my desk as am going through a family death, and funeral stuff soon

 

 

 

defence randle-redacted.docx reasons for cournter claim redacted.docx

[MOSS 41]

Not trying to protect anyone -

thats my problem with forms ,

I say too much , and need to condense down ,

which is where I need the help - to make it simpler - bullet point answers , but it’s hard to respond to his points which aren’t clear either-

 

 

I would like to send defence and

counter claim now rather than hold off , as I am determined now to get all our money back , so want to get the counter claim started ASAP

if possible and get the ball rolling 

 

This was a personal Installation at

home address -

not through any company , just as a consumer 

 

 

Edited October 12, 2021 by MOSS 41

[MOSS 41]

Ok -

I’ll just do an acknowledgment 

 

help on setting them out better will be greatly appreciated 

[MOSS 41]

Sorry not suing as a company just individual , I did send emails from him to admin as suggested asked -

can you not find ?

[MOSS 41]

sent the email ones

 

and ive responded to claim online, ticked box, now have til 8 november to respond

 

Edited October 12, 2021 by MOSS 41

[MOSS 41]

What do our mean by tabular form 

 

I answered the questions directly next to them 

 

I’m not a mind reader to a special way - 

you asked  I answered 

[MOSS 41]

Grandfather died through the night -

not unexpected -

will have a go in a couple of days