got default judgement against apple re:macbook 2mts old that failed - sent in HCEO's - Apple sols SCS now saying wrong claimant?

[Mars1900]

Hi. I need some advice please.

My Apple MacBook graphics on the screen went faulty during COVID lockdown. My MacBook was only 2 months old.

Couldn’t take it to Liverpool store where I purchased it as it was shut due to COVID. Only shop open was in Manchester but couldn’t go there due to travel restriction zones. 

I contacted Apple by telephone and they sent me a prepaid box to send it for repair in the Czech Republic.

Long story short I they contacted me to pay for repair as they said screen was cracked and nit covered by warranty.

I stupidly paid the fee as I thought I couldn’t prove otherwise even though I had photos of my MacBook before I sent it to them and there was most definitely no crack.

I contacted the complaints department and got put through to Ireland.

It was awful and after 4 months they were still looking into it. In the end I went to a small claims court and gave the head office address that Apple gave me over the telephone and on Live Chat.

Apple never responded to the claim so I got a CCJ against them and then High Court Enforcement Officers who went to the address.

Basically the address was a shop of theirs in London.

They paid the fee to prevent the removal of any goods.

Now Apple have got their solicitors involved asking for the fee back saying that we have sued a non-entity and that ‘Apple’ does not exist.

They are saying the attendance was at Apple Retail UK.

They are saying that they appreciate that Apple and Apple UK Ltd are one and the same, but for the purposes of enforcement and of a court judgement that is not the case.

I am really not sure where to go from here as that was the Head Office address they gave and they never defended the claim or got back to say any of this previously.

[Mars1900]

Hi. No, I’ve not had the money yet.

 

The Enforcement Officers collected the money and Apple have got In touch within 2 weeks so the Enforcement Officers still have the money and will return it to Apple in 7 days because they are advising they cannot get involved with a legal dispute. Therefore, I don’t know what to do.

 

They are saying ‘Apple’ are not a legal entity and that the address is a shop.  I am suing the wrong branch of Apple. However, that was the address they gave us as their head office.

Edited December 3, 2021 by dx100uk
added A few blank lines only..dx

[Mars1900]

The solicitors SCS Law and the amount I am was claiming was approx £700 but when the Enforcement Officers got involved it’s about £2,300. 

[Mars1900]

Yes I pursued it further because I was fuming at having to pay when it was still under warranty and I never caused any damage. On my bank statement I paid £700 to Apple.com/UK.
 

It is Apple Retail UK who have paid the full fee to the bailiffs (my £700 and the bailiff fees of about £1,700). 
 

I’ve tried to send the image showing the address I was provided as the Head Office but it won’t upload...saying it needs to be a pdf etc. 
 

Apple are now saying they will sue the bailiffs and myself if the money is not returned but I’m not sure what to do.

I phoned Apple today to ask what their proper Head Office address is in the UK and nobody seems to know.

 

The man I spoke to said we don’t have that info but gave me a mailing address (that was different to the Address I’ve previously been given). He said I’d have to speak to a lawyer if I needed any further details as they’d know what to do. It’s like they don’t have an address at all that deals with complaints. 

 

Forgot to say I’m going to call the bailiffs on Monday. I tried calling them earlier but there was no phone connection so I’m assuming they had an issue with their phone lines. It all seems to be in Apples favour here. 

[Mars1900]

The address the man gave me on the phone today is - Apple Distribution International Ltd, c/o Legal Dept. 2 Furzeground Way, Shockley Park, Uxbridge, Middlesex, UB11 1BB. 
 

So the head office address I was previously given before lodging case seems to be a normal Apple Store. 
 

But why have they not defended the case until now. They must have received the correspondence and as it was still Apple and why did they not pass it to the correct department? Plus they got in touch with the court after the CCJ deadline asking for an extension and the documents to be sent to them again...so they clearly got the letters initially and couldn’t be bothered responding. 
 

They have given me the runaround from the start. Their staff don’t seem to have a clue and fob you off with any address. I’m not sure if this is done on purpose to make it almost impossible to sue them. 
 

 

 

[Mars1900]

Hi.

I purchased the MacBook on the Apple website and collected it in the Liverpool Apple Store (invoice attached).

 

I’ve also included a a screenshot of the Live Chat I had where they confirm that 1 Hanover Street is the Head Office & this is the address I put on my Claim Form.

 

original Invoice.pdf chat with apple.pdf

[Mars1900]

So it shouldn’t have been sent to the Head Office address they gave? This is where a I am really confused as what address should it have been? When I initially spoke to Apple on the phone they also gave me the head office address as 1 Hanover Street when I asked who I put a claim in to. So their staff have fobbed me off. 
 

As you can probably tell I’m not legally savvy and there seem to be obstacles in the way of suing Apple but I would have thought that whatever address it went to as part of Apple they would have at least needed to advise this to the court?

 

This is the correspondence I’ve received from the bailiffs. 
 

so if I have to go through all of this again I still have no idea where I send the claim form as Apple never give a proper answer. 

 

correspondence from the bailiffs re enforcement.pdf

[Mars1900]

Here is the original claim form. 
 

I think they are trying to get out of it on a technicality but this is the address they provided me. I think they have done this on purpose. 
 

If I have no choice but to start the claim again I have no idea who to sue as it seems Apple have a get out clause by having different branches. 
 

I would have thought that no matter what branch they are if they are the same company they would have an obligation to deal with the matter in hand or forward it to the correct department. The fact they contacted the court after the cut off date to ask for the documents again means that they did receive them but probably couldn’t be bothered replying. 

 

online claimform.pdf

[Mars1900]

Apple can get out of it by this technicality seems ridiculous to me.

They call themselves Apple not Apple Retail. Unless you’re clued up on these things how can the average person know that it's Apple Retail UK.

If I got a letter from the court and never responded based on them spelling my name as Jo Blogg instead of Jo Bloggs I can bet your boots I would still be pulled in over it. 

You've been very helpful I’m just annoyed over greedy Apple...oops I meant Apple Retail UK

[Mars1900]

I'll be honest no I never got legal advice or went to the citizens advice. I’m a student so was worried at having to pay legal fees.  I spoke to my brother who is quite clued up but seems this one seems he seems to have missed. 

 

I'm going to write a letter as you suggest and fingers crossed that gets this sorted. 

[Mars1900]

I went through Apples full complaints process which was dealing with staff in Ireland.

We were told Ireland was were complaints were held.

Letters we're sent, telephone calls were made and this went on from April until August.

At one point I was even told I would receive a full refund - only for them to then backtrack and say their Accounts department were refusing.

I have this phone call recorded but I am not sure if this could be used as evidence?

The chat I specifically asked the agent is 1 Hanover Street your Head office and he replied that yes it was. 

I am prepared to go to court as I think I have a good case.

The way the box arrived back to me was disgraceful.

I have pictures of the MacBook before it was sent.

They are trying to say the screen was cracked - I categorically deny this.

Could it have been damaged in transit in the prepaid box they gave me - possibly judging by the state of the box it was returned in. 

[Mars1900]

I know but I'm trying to work out the best way around this now. Thanks for help everyone 

[Mars1900]

Hi. Yes I pursued every avenue possible - it's so much to go through on here but I can private message my claim form with all the details.

I can honestly say Apple complaints is the worst customer experience I've ever encountered. I

'm not just saying that because of the outcome of this but the Irish complaints handlers were dragging their heels and not offering any outcome.

Every week they would phone to ask for details we had already provided them with.

This happened continuously from Apr to Aug.

They offered the refund after I had already received the MacBook back - then backtracked and said ‘higher up’ were refusing.

It's hard to explain how ridiculous this while process was.

They said we can't go any higher than them but on the other hand were saying ‘higher up’ we're refusing to refund.

As for the Czech Republic - I asked for a full technical report - which they never provided.

All they sent me was my warranty.

I've never known such a bunch of liars.

Apple have never said the MacBook was damaged during delivery - that is me giving a possibility as there was no damage to the screen when I sent it to them in the prepaid box they provided.

When I received the Macbook back the box they sent it to me in looked battered - so if it was handled like that upon delivery to them it is quite possible that the screen was damaged during transit.

I also have photos of the condition the box arrived in when I got my Macbook back.

I don't believe their staff are adequately trained to handle issues.

Also the Macbook was purchased online directly from Apple and I collected it the same day from the Liverpool One Store - click and collect. 

Also the screen graphics went after 2 months of purchase.

The Macbook was purchased in Oct 2020 and I reported the fault to them in Jan 2021. The Liverpool One store was closed due to Covid with no information when it would reopen.

The nearest store open to me was Manchester - but I couldn't go here as we are still under lock down and had to stay withing our areas. that's when I made the mistake of arranging with them online to send it in for repair

[Mars1900]

I need to advise that I am the aunty of my niece who has the claim with Apple as she is too stressed to deal with it herself with all her Uni Work. I've removed her details but this is her claim form she sent. 

 

Reason for claim:
3.1.

 

I purchased a brand new Apple Macbook in September 2020 from the Liverpool Store. The graphics went faulty on the screen in January 2021 for no apparent reason. Due to the Covid pandemic, the Liverpool Store was closed so I could not take it to them.

I contacted Apple online to find out my options and the only options available were to go to a store by Manchester which was open during the pandemic: However, under government rules, I could not travel outside of my city. The other option was to send my Macbook to their technical team based in the Czech Republic.

 

As my Macbook was under a 12month warranty I thought this would be fine so I sent it off in the pre-paid package they sent to me. The Macbook was sent to their technical team in February and shortly afterward I received an email from Apple giving me 3 options.

 

The first option was

to pay for the repair as they suggested it is 'out of coverage of the 'warranty' and the cost would be £431.96 + tax.

 

The second option was

to have my Macbook returned unrepaired and

 

the third option was

to talk to Apple about the options they had already given me.

 

I choose the third option as I had a 12-month warranty and could not understand why I was being asked to pay a fee.

 

I was told there was 'accidental damage' and no further information was provided as the operator could not access the technician's report.

 

When I sent the Macbook to their technical team there was no damage to the screen etc. The only issue was the distorted graphic display which I have evidence of. As a student with little experience of dealing with matters like this and because I needed the Macbook as it had my university work stored on it I was naïve and reluctantly paid the fee.

 

Once the fee was paid in February I received an email from Apple saying the product was being shipped via UPS and should arrive within 2 business days. I was provided with a tracking number which I checked every day to ensure I was in for delivery.

 

On the first day it should have arrived it never turned up. I then checked the tracking and another scheduled delivery date was given. This went on from February until April. During that period I made contact with Apple as I never received my product and I also wanted to question what the accidental damage was and requested a full technician report.  I was getting referred to different departments which when questioned about the accidental damage would refer to a photo and claim there was a crack on the screen which I knew there was not.

 

In the end I did manage to speak to someone from the Czech Republic where their technical team are based and was told I would be sent an email of the technician report within 2 days. Instead - what was sent to me was my 12-month warranty and not the report.

 

After many more phone calls still chasing a full report of the damage and also while still waiting for my Macbook to arrive I was further upset to receive an email from UPS to pay customs charges. I was appalled with this as Apple did not advise me I would be charged customs fees but again I paid them to get my Macbook as I had already paid the 'repair fee'.

 

Even before receiving the Macbook back, I made my first formal complaint to Apple in April. I was contacted by the Complaints Department based in Ireland who were handling my complaint. I was advised that this was the highest department to deal with my complaint and I was in contact with Danny from the Complaints Team until July 2021.

 

It took them 3 months to try and resolve my complaint. Initially, Danny looked at my case and said I would get a full refund which I have a phone record of but he soon backtracked claiming another department was disputing this and refusing to issue my refund which he had requested. He said this other department was sticking to 'accidental damage'.

 

I decided to take it upon myself to call Apple's head office number in the UK to see if I could speak directly to the department that has the authority to issue refunds and the lady I spoke to told me that Danny from the Complaints Department had the authority to issue refunds and she explained there was no 'higher department' to authorize this so I knew I was being lied to by Danny and the Complaints Team in Ireland.

 

They were always asking for further evidence which I had already provided them on numerous occasions and I feel this was just to make the case drag on and on so I would eventually give up. I was always patient and provided them with everything they asked for.

 

However, after 3 months and still getting no further I explained to the Complaints Team that I was not prepared to wait any longer and gave them a cut-off date to resolve my complaint by. I gave them an extra two weeks after which time they did contact me saying they wanted to resolve my complaint amicably and refund me my customs charges. They said they would not be refunding the 'repair fee' as the 'people above them' would not authorize it.

 

I refused this partial refund as this case has gone on since February until July and the whole thing has been a shambles. However, the main reason I refused the partial refund is because my Macbook was not accidentally damaged as suggested by Apple and was still under warranty so I feel that I am due a full refund. They have also failed to send me a technician report which I have requested on many occasions.

 

feel this so-called 'Accidental Damage' is a get-out clause from honouring the warranty. I have photographic evidence, emails, and phone records for my case and feel that Apple have been an absolute disgrace the way they have handled this. I have given them every opportunity to sort my complaint and unfortunately, after all the months this has been going on it has ended unsatisfactorily.

 

Timeline of what happened:
19 September 2020 Purchased Macbook .

21 January 2021 The Graphics display went faulty.

21 January 2021 Contacted Apple (e-message) and given option to take to Manchester or send to Technical Repair Team in Czech Republic. I chose to send it to technical repair team.

12 February 2021 Sent to Czech Republic in pre-paid box.

16 February 2021 Received email from Apple giving 3 options to get Macbook back.

16 February 2021 Paid £435.20 for 'repair'.

17 February 2021 Received email from Apple confirming Macbook was being dispatched and would arrive within 2 business days. Tracking number provided.

18 February 2021 I checked the tracking number and delivery was scheduled. No delivery happened.

22 February 2021 Checked the tracking number and Customs Charges were showing. I paid this fee of £110.11.
March - April 2021 Made numerous phone calls to Apple to complain about charges and asking for technical report of the 'repair'.

1 April 2021 Formal complaint made by email and letter with evidence of my claim.

15 April 2021Macbook delivered.

19 April 2021 Received email from Apple claiming they had tried to call me to discuss my case but my phone records show no such call was made.

21 April 2021 Received another email from Apple claiming they have tried to contact me but my phone shows no record of such a call.

22 April 2021 Received another email saying Apple had tried to contact me. My phone records so no such call. This email also advised the case would remain open until the 29 of April 2021.

26 April 2021 I called Apple Customer Service as I did not want the case to close. The Complaints Team advised that they would provide me with a weekly update. April - July Weekly calls with the Complaints Team usually just to be advised they were still looking into it further.

12 June 2021 I sent email and a registered letter to the Complaints Team advising that I was concerned at how long my complaint was taking to be resolved and advised them I would be taking this complaint further if the case was not resolved by the end of June.

15 July 2021 The Complaints Team called and advised they would
not be refunding the 'repair' fee and the case was now closed.

4. Claim amount details

Claim amount items:
Customs charge £110.11
Repair  £435.20
Complaint letter postage amount £17
Interest rate claimed: 8%
Explanation:

The claimant reserves the right to claim interest under Section 69 of the County Courts Act 1984 Date interest is claimed from: 1 April 2021
Explanation: This is the date the formal complaint was made Interest end date: Interest will accrue at the daily rate of £0.12 up to the date of judgment

5. Total amount
Claim amount: £562.31
Total interest claimed to the date of submission: £15.16
Claim fee: £70
Total: £647.47

6. Statement of truth
I believe that the facts stated in this claim form are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth. 2 August 2021

If you don’t respond before 4pm, 23 August 2021, you could get a default County Court

Claim - Details removed.pdf

claimform ends

..................................

 

 

She has contacted the Enforcement Officer to advise them to return the money to Apple which I believe they have now done. However, Apple's solicitors are contacting her by email and letter about an application to set judgement aside.

 

I will send their documentation over shortly, I just need to convert it it a PDF document.   

Edited December 11, 2021 by dx100uk
text of claim added for ease from one block of text on PDF

[Mars1900]

Letter from Apple solicitor - Details removed.pdf

[Mars1900]

Sorry took me awhile as had to take photo of each page as this part was only sent in post and not via email. 

Apple Application Notice

Apple Application Notice-compressed (2).pdf

I understand that the name ‘Apple’ on the Claim Form was incorrect. I phoned the court and they advised they can’t change this. To be honest they weren’t the most helpful of people but maybe that’s because they genuinely can’t help. 

Apple’s argument on their Application Notice that the screen was cracked is either 1) a lie. My niece has images of the MacBook before it was sent…no crack on screen. 2) it may have been damaged in transit. 
 

The other point they make is that customs fees are not their responsibility. Surely if you purchase a product from Apple in the UK it is  not unreasonable to expect a repair centre in the UK? And if not then they should cover any postage fees?

They say they did not receive the Claim Form…but yet they phoned the court after missing the CCJ deadline asking for the documents to be sent again. So clearly they received something? They also state the Hanover Street address was incorrect: However, this is the address my niece was given when she spoke to them on the phone and via Live Chat asking where complaints and claims should be sent to. 

Lastly…probably a silly comment…but as they keep pointing out, ‘Apple’ are not a legal entity. What I don’t understand is why their solicitor is defending the correct entity? 
 

The big question now is do you think it’s worth pursuing this case any further and submitting another claim form using the correct name and address on the invoice?

Edited December 11, 2021 by Mars1900

[Mars1900]

The image they sent doesn’t even show a crack on the screen…it’s only showing lines which is what happened when you switched it on and the reason I sent it for repair in the first place (faulty graphics).

They’re trying to say one of the distorted lines is a crack in the screen which is a load of rubbish.

I genuinely feel they are blagging.

They haven’t even sent a report of the issues like they said they would.

Surely if you’re paying over £400 for a repair you should get some kind of report of the repairs carried out - like you would if you took your car in for an MOT or service?
 

It was collected by UPS and also delivered back to me by UPS. I have photos of the condition of the box it was sent back to me in…holes and filthy. If it arrived to them in this condition there is a possibility it was damaged in transit…but think Apple are just being unreasonable and refusing to pay.
 

To avoid any confusion I now have the MacBook back without fault. However, if I now put a claim in with UPS will this be for the same amount as I put in on the claim with Apple or a different amount?
 

I find these sort of things complicated sorry. Probably should have gone through a solicitor but it’s very expensive so trying to do it myself. I can understand why people get very stressed out though and give up. 

[Mars1900]

I’ll have to do some research but did find this when doing a quick check then 

M1 MacBook Air reports of self-destructing displays are piling up — and users are baffled | Laptop Mag

WWW.LAPTOPMAG.COM

---

Could Apple have another displaygate on its hands?

 

[Mars1900]

Hi. 

 

I'll upload it all in one PDF later. I tried uploading the documents in better quality yesterday but it said the file was too big so I had to compress it to the poorest quality to be allowed to send it.

 

Also, the claim form of my niece was downloaded directly from the Court website. Will see if there is another one on there but pretty sure this is the correct one sent. The claim form the solicitors have submitted was sent in the post in that poor quality so even scanning it on a printer the quality will still be bad.

 

I'll try to make sure everything is in order. I do have the Live Chat transcript and the photos but will send these with other documents later.

 

Thanks 

[Mars1900]

Hi

 

I've spent all day scanning the documents and have used a PDF Reducer - this has greatly reduced the image quality attached. However, to keep everything on one PDF document this is the best I can do.

 

I understand you are trying to help and I am very grateful - but I can't get the quality any better as it is a big document and this site only allows a maximum of 4.88 MB, meaning I had to choose the biggest quality reduction to fit it on this site. 

 

I will attach the transcript of the Live Chat separately where Apple confirm the Head Office address. 

 

I am thinking of getting a solicitor involved to fight this case for my niece - do you think she has a chance? 

 

Thanks

Full Apple Case_compressed (1).pdf

[Mars1900]

Chat 

 

23 august apple chat.pdf

[Mars1900]

That’s correct the Complaints Team who we were dealing with it in Ireland said they would refund the repair and customs fee  then changed their mind. It was the strangest complaints team I’ve ever dealt with. 
 

We tried to resolve this with the Complaints Team in Ireland but in the end that hit a dead end. We do have a phone recording of them agreeing to refund the costs but it’s not on my phone so I can’t  upload this just yet. 
 

The issue we now have is that we’ve already lost the initial court fee and the bailiff fee and I don’t think we could request these to be reimburse if then mistake of ‘Apple’ was put on the Claim Form. Really not sure if we have a chance of winning either. 

[Mars1900]

The Irish Complaints Team would mostly only contact us by telephone and it was via a phone call that they offered to refund (this is on a call recording but not within the documentation attached). 
 

It was also advised via a telephone call that it was due to the screen being cracked (so again this is not in the paperwork attached). There were literally loads of telephone calls. 

The Irish Complaints Team were careful not to send correspondence via email as they probably were aware it could be used as evidence. 
 

We have lots of their telephone calls recorded.

Edited December 12, 2021 by Mars1900

[Mars1900]

The recordings are on my brothers phone (my niece didn’t like making the calls herself) so she got one of us to speak on her behalf. 
 

I’ve asked my brother to send them through now so hopefully I’ll have the details soon. 
 

I do know the refund they offered was the so called repair fee and the customs fee - no they never asked for return of MacBook. 
 

MacBook all working fine now - no evidence of a new screen though so not sure what they’ve done to get it working. Looking at the Apple Forums and the website though lots of people are having similar issues with the screen but Apple refusing to admit fault. 
 

She’s studying Forensic Science and got loads of exams coming up - so I’m the idiot she’s trusting to help her. 

Edited December 12, 2021 by Mars1900

[Mars1900]

Hi. Sorry for delay getting the phone transcript. It was actually my niece who spoke to the Apple Complaints Team in Ireland when the refund was promised. 
 

28 April 2021

 

Danny - there is two things is this the charge for the customs and the charge for repair. For the customs charge we will get this refunded to you no problem. You shouldn’t have to pay those charges. 
 

For the repair it is a little bit different. The unit was diagnosed with accidental damage which unfortunately does carry the out of warranty cost but due to the delay and everything that went on regarding that delivery I am looking for an exception in this instance and refund you the cost of repair. Now these requests can take a little bit of time to complete but it won’t be too long and I should hopefully have an exception case by the end of the week for you to get you refunded for everything.

 

Again normally out of warranty repairs wouldn’t be refunded but again but in this instance after everything that has happened I will be seeking to make that exception for you. Everything that you have paid I will be looking for you to have refunded. 
 

Dave (uncle of claimant) 

 

Hi Dan it’s Dave here. That sounds ok so far you’ve promised the import but not the Apple thing that’s the only thing and we’ve got to wait until the end of the week now?
 

Apple - I am promising on that Dave due to the fact everything that has happened and the delay. I need to get the exception for the refund but based on everything provided that will go through but I will have the answer for you on Friday how long this refund process will take.