Summons issued against Parrcel2Go

[Its WAR]

I am a regular (many years)  P2G user and selected them to use Parcelforce 48 service to send a gazebo I sold on eBay. 

Parcelforce 48 have an automatic max £100 compensation for lost items.

 

Parcelforce lost the item.

P2G state the £100 compensation Parcelforce offer within their price, does not get reimbursed to them, so they can't reimburse it to me.

However, it would have been reimbursed to me had I used Parcelforce 48 direct, rather than go through P2G. 

 

It seems rather strange that when I pay P2G to buy Parcelforce 48 service on my behalf, they buy a different service which excludes the automatic compensation.

 

They also lost another £40 parcel (which I did not buy additional insurance for, because it was an excluded item).

 

They also broke an item prior to delivery (which the addressee rejected as it was clearly a damaged parcel).

The thing is, if a parcel is rejected by the addressee, what should they do with the failed delivery?

 

In this case they threw away the parcel and 'broken' contents rather than return to sender and refuse to compensate me because I (again) did not buy the additional insurance.

 

I have escalated the rejected claims and they agreed as a gesture of goodwill to reimburse the postage costs for all three items. (I would have expected this as a matter of course) . 

 

Clearly many will consider I should have bought the extra insurance.

I often do, but feel the extra costs involved would be greater than the odd loss ( having never had a loss in a couple hundred sendings), I only pay extra on certain items.

 

I feel a summons coming on, so would be happy to receive any ideas.

Even if P2G have a rock solid defence regarding my lack of buying insurance, I still fancy testing their resolve and seeing if they fancy a hearing. 

 

 

After escalating my claims, they agreed to refund the postage costs only.

 

I have therefore issue a Notice Before Action for the value of the lost items £180.

 

Notice Before Action

Dear Sir/madam

You have lost the following items.

1)      1

2)      2

3)      3

 

I understand you eventually accepted liability for these lost items and have agreed to reimburse the postage costs but not the values.

 

You suggest this is due to my failing to take out additional insurance.  

I am not prepared to accept your position and shall be issuing a summons on 18^th August for £180, should you choose not to reimburse the values allocated to the items you have lost.

 

In particular:

Item 1)

This parcel was damaged by your courier and rejected by the addressee.

It appears rather than return the parcel and contents to me, your courier decided to throw the item away.

Thus the item has become lost, and therefore (due to my not paying extra for insurance against loss), you have chosen not to compensate.

Do you seriously expect to ‘lose’ an item on purpose by throwing it away, and then claim it has been lost and therefore not covered?

 

Item 2)

This parcel was lost and I made a claim.

During the period of claim, the parcel was found and began to track.

Ultimately being delivered (according to an email to the addressee, at 1.41 am 19 July 2020).

Clearly the parcel was not delivered at such a time.

 

You have subsequently suggested delivery was at a different time.

Despite these suggestions of proper delivery, you have been unable to prove delivery at all, the addressee has confirmed he has not received the item and you have accepted the item is lost. 

I do not accept you can be so careless as to lose an item twice.

 

When I purchased this sending through P2G, I selected Parcelforce 48 as the courier.

This service has a compensation value of up to £100 for loss.

This is why I selected them.

 

It appears however, you chose not to purchase this service from Parcelforce, but an alternative service purporting to be Parcelforce 48, but excluding the standard compensation. 

This is not what I had purchased.

I do not accept your claim that I should have paid extra for insurance for you to insure, when I had already purchased a service which carried automatic insurance.

 

Further, the service was supposed to be a 48 hour service.

The parcel was not collected within the 48 hour period, let alone delivered within it. 

I consider the delays in ensuring delivery within the expected timeframe would have contributed to the loss of this item.

I hold you responsible for the loss.

 

Item 3)

This item was also subject to a claim for loss.

During your investigations, this item was also found and started to track.

Messages advising  "Enquiry resolved", "INT Hold" and "Out for delivery”, suggest the item had eventually been found.

 

I do not accept you can be so careless as to find a lost item and subsequently lose it again, regardless of whether I had purchased additional insured.

 

Indeed, the option to purchase such insurance was not available as the item appears to have been excluded from such insurance.

 

Yours faithfully

[Its WAR]

Two replies from P2G continuing to reject my cause of action. Just the issue regarding the parcel which they damaged and threw away. Time is up though and I will now prepare the summons.

I would love some help drafting the particulars. 

I would expect they will settle once I have issued the summons, but will happily attend a hearing and report back. Indeed, I would hope to get a hearing. So any advise on how to word the various points would be appreciated.

 

I have assumed that I would be issuing the summons against P2G rather than Hermes. Is this correct or should I be sueing them jointly? I have only issued letter before action to P2G. I intend to issue on 26th Aug.

[Its WAR]

Hi Ozer85,

 

I  sent the LBA to P2G at The Cube (I didn't have a name). Although I also sent emails. Two of the 3 claims have had further email rejection replies. The LBA has been ignored and time was up last week.

 

I have had  offers to repay the three carriage fees though, but I have ignored them.

 

I am interested whether  you might be sueing Hermes or P2G. I accept the contract was with P2G and I am planning to sue them rather than Hermes, but I have no idea whether it would be better to hold off and go through Hermes claims procedure first (having done so with P2G to no avail) and sue them both as joint defendants (if you can do such a thing). But I guess this is over complicating things and a simple summons should suffice to P2G. 

 

[Its WAR]

I think you are right. I won't waste time thinking to add Hermes to the claim. Otherwise it will be too near to Christmas by the time I get a hearing, and I am busy then. I doubt it will make any difference anyway, as I expect them to fold once they see I am ready to go all the way, although I will be a little disappointed if they do.........but its only £180 plus an issue fee plus a hearing fee, so I doubt they will want a hearing.

 

Having used Parcelforce48 for the gazebo, I heard they xray all packages. Does anyone know if that is true and what part of transit through the system it occurs? It seems to me, they should at least be able to produce the image.........unless it got lost before that. It would make their claim to have delivered it rather weak, if it were lost before the xray.

 

 

[Its WAR]

Offer received today £20 per parcel (£60 total).

I still haven't issued the summons so rejected their offer. I will get around to the summons soon enough, but I guess it gives them time to accept full settlement plus postage.

[Its WAR]

Draft Particulars of Claim. Any observations gratefully received. I will issue through MCOL on Monday 14th Sept.

 

1.       The Claimant paid the Defendant fees to deliver three parcels.

 

2.       Defendants Reference numbers / date / description / value / postage fee

1.       P2G72688861 /  22 May 2020 / Vintage Wooden T Square / £15 / £4.37

2.       P2G73791631 / 09 June 2020  / Gazebo / £135 / £16.38

3.       P2G74330511 / 19 June 2020 / Vintage Camera / £30 / £16.38

 

3.       The Defendant failed to deliver or return these parcels.

 

4.       The Defendant has stated these parcels are lost.

 

5.       The Claimant requested the Defendant compensate for the values of the lost items plus postage.

 

6.       The Defendant has accepted liability for the lost parcels but refuses to compensate in full.

 

7.        The Defendant has offered to credit the postage costs and pay £20 compensation per lost parcel.

 

8.       The Defendant refuses to compensate in full because the Claimant did not pay extra for insurance.

 

9.       The Claimant states such requirement to purchase additional insurance to cover against the Defendants own negligence amounts to an unfair term under the Consumer Rights Act 2015

 

10.   In any case the Claimant disputes item 2:1 was lost, but was thrown away by the courier employed by the Defendant as the parcel was damaged by the courier during transit and rejected by the addressee.

 

11.   In any case the Claimant disputes item 2:2 lacked insurance cover as the service purchased was Parcelforce 48

 

12.   In any case the Defendants do not offer additional  insurance for  item 2:3

 

13.   The Claimant seeks compensation for the value of the lost items £180 plus postage £37.13 for Breach of Contract

 

14.   The Claimant also seeks statutory interest 8% £4.64 plus 4.75p per day until date of judgement.

[Its WAR]

Hi Disgruntled, I am issuing the summons tomorrow. Have you started a thread?

[Its WAR]

MCOL summons now issued. Brief version of particulars of claim. (Money claim online only provide space for a brief statement).

Quote

 

The Claimant paid the Defendant fees to deliver three parcels.

Defendants' Reference numbers / date / description / value / postage fee

1. P2G72688861 / 22 May 2020 / Vintage Wooden T Square / £15 / £4.37

2. P2G73791631 / 09 June 2020 / Gazebo / £135 / £16.38

3. P2G74330511 / 19 June 2020 / Vintage Camera / £30 / £16.38

The Defendant failed to deliver or return these parcels.

The Defendant has stated these parcels are lost and refuses to compensate.

I will provide the defendant with separate detailed particulars within 14 days after service of the claim form.

The claimant claims interest under section 69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at the rate of 8% a year from 19/06/2020 to 14/09/2020 on £217.13 and also interest at the same rate up to the date of judgment or earlier payment at a daily rate of £0.05.

 

 

[Its WAR]

Because the simple argument that they lost my parcels might only elicit a basic defence and give me less to work on. 

 

By giving them a detailed cause of action in a couple of weeks, I reckon they might provide a more detailed defence that I could then work on for preparing a better case at a hearing.

 

Although it might risk them choosing not to defend.  

I consider the more detailed cause of action (as in post 10 above) might be better

 

. Of course, the more detailed cause of action need not be that much more detailed should I choose otherwise.

[Its WAR]

Parcel2go made their enquiries and told me the courier threw the parcel away after they didn't deliver it because the parcel was damaged. I

 

don't have to detail it if I do send a more detailed (or a less detailed) claim.

I do get what you say about less is more though but surely if they expand their defence, I have more to work with too? 

 

Frankly, I reckon its all moot if they have no intention to let this get to a hearing though.

Having said that, I expect they read these threads and have already read my post 10.

 

 

[Its WAR]

Nothing in writing. I was told it during a phone call.

 

 

[Its WAR]

Acknowledgement of Service now received. They say they intend to defend. 

 

I did offer more detailed particulars of claim (which seems to be against the wisdom of this site).

I was thinking of sending my post 10 (above).

 

Happy to be advised not to do so and send something less detailed.

If anyone wishes to suggest how to proceed, I am happy to be told.

 

Sadly I did not record the phone call which stated they threw my parcel away.

I will send them an SAR and specify the need for them to send me screen notes and transcript (although I doubt I will get either). 

[Its WAR]

I can't see any advise on my posts here saying anything about only providing basic particulars of claim. (I have subsequently found that advise elsewhere).

 

My posts 3 did ask for advise and none was offered.

Post 10 stated my detailed draft particulars, but received no advise, how not to send them or whether to edit them.

 

Further, I had already provided detailed notes in my Notice before Action.

So I haven't given them much more than they already had.

 

I have explained my reasoning why I thought detailed particulars of claim would be useful (they might elicit a detailed defence that I can then work on). However as it now stands, I have given only basic particulars of claim along with a suggestion that I would send a more detailed version.

 

I suppose I should therefore do so, unless others can suggest how to renege and not send more details if the wisdom of this site really thinks it a bad idea.

 

 

[Its WAR]

Yes, a little bit of hassle. Letter sent, thank you. Certifcate of Service N215 doesn't appear to be able to add to file on MCOL though.

[Its WAR]

No defence entered yet. Today is the deadline. Feeling disappointed. What happens if they do not defend? I guess I am forced to request judgement?

[Its WAR]

Yes. It would be fun. But not so exciting as attending a hearing. 

 

[Its WAR]

Parcel2go  have lodged the following defence. Bankfodder asked earlier if I had it in writing regarding  the courier throwing away one of my lost parcels. I think the defence answers that question. As for my not sending them further particulars of claim...........they had this info in the notice before action.

 

I Chelsea Walton, of The Cube, Coe Street, Bolton, BL3 6BU, say as follows: -

 

1.            I am the Asset Protection Officer, employed by the Defendant. I am duly authorised by the Defendant to make this Defence on their behalf.

 

2.            The facts and matters set out in this statement are within my own knowledge unless otherwise stated, and I believe them to be true. Where I refer to information supplied by others, the source of the information is identified; facts and matters derived from other sources are true to the best of my knowledge and belief.

 

3.            We take orders via our website.

 

 

 

THE DEFENCE

 

4.            Claimant booked and paid for three different orders via the Defendant website, all orders were booked to be collected and delivered to different locations, two orders being within the UK and the third order being an international service, all order were booked with different couriers, however, the Terms and Conditions accepted were the same for all order as these were all booked with the Defendant.

5.            When booking the services with the Defendant the Claimant is required to enter the contents and the value of each item being sent, the Claimant listed these as follows:

•             P2G72688831 – UK to UK Order – Parcels:"Set Square" (10x10x10, 0.2kg - £15.00)

•             P2G73791621 – UK to UK Order - Parcels:"Gazebo" (125x25x25, 22.7kg - £135.00)

•             P2G74330511 – UK to FINLAND Order - Parcels:"camera" (30x27x20, 2.6kg - £30.00)

6.            When entering the order value during the booking process, the Claimant is then provided with a pop-up requesting they protect their goods fully against loss or damage in transit. The pop-up message is read like this:

7.            Example from order P2G73791621 – “Don't get caught without enough protection should the unexpected happen. You can protect your parcel up to the value of £10,000.00

Yes, I would like to protect my £135.00 parcel against loss or damage for £6.75 exc VAT.

No, I'm willing to risk my £135.00 parcel. I'm not worried about potential loss or damage.”

8.            The additional amount to protect your goods differ with each of these orders. Increased protection can be purchased at a rate of 5% of the value of the item.

9.            However, the wording listed above requesting the Claimant protect their goods full is provided the same in each order. Claimant opted for the zero protection on all three orders, meaning these will be sent without protection for loss or damage.

10.          On the final stage of the booking process the Claimant is again provided with another pop-up message which is read as follows (different amounts will be shown for different valued orders):

“You Haven't Fully Protected Your Parcel

To increase the protection to the full value for your order it will only cost you £6.75 exc VAT extra.

1. Amount of Protection

You have not selected any cover for your parcels, even though your item’s declared value is £135.00. We strongly recommend that you have full protection cover in case of loss or damage. Also please note that you are responsible for certifying the true value of the parcel's contents.”

11.          Claimant again chose not to protect each of these parcels and selected the ‘No, I don not want to be protected against loss or damage’ option.

12.          The Claimant then accepted the Terms and Conditions and went on to pay for these orders.

13.          During transit, one parcel (P2G72688861) was confirmed as being damaged and due to health and safety risk this was disposed of, the other two (P2G73791631 and P2G74330511) were deemed as missing after an investigation was conducted.

14.          All three orders had claims on them and all three orders were rejected based on the protection during the booking process, as the zero protection option was accepted all these claims were closed as parcel protection not purchased, a refund of all three orders carriage fees has been processed since the claims were rejected.

15.          Multiple emails were exchanged for all three of these orders and the Claims Department for the Defendant confirmed each time the reason the claims had been rejected. Claimant was not happy with these responses and a Letter Before Court Action was sent and responded too.

16.          In the response from the Claimant they mention that the service booked for the order containing a Gazebo was booked through Parcel Force 48 as they offered standard £100.00 protection and they expect that to be refunded. It would seem there was confusion relating to the order P2G73791631 and so the Defendant replied with the following message:

“ You have mentioned that you asked to buy the Parcelforce 48 service from Parcelforce, if you had booked with them directly you may have been provided with £100.00 cover, however we are not Parcelforce. Parcel2go.com offer a cheaper comparison on all the couriers used however all protection purchased is via Parcel2Go.com we do not claim anything from the courier and any pay outs for claims are based on protection purchased we are self-certified and all the claims paid are based on the protection purchased. The onus is on you to ensure all the booking is correct and you were advised on more than one occasion that you would not be protected unless protection is purchased.”

17.          Prior to selecting the courier service, we also offer all our customer to choose a standard protection service or a zero-protection service, the standard protection offered is £20.00. If the Claimant accepted this as a service the claims would have been settled for the standard amount £20.00, or lesser dependant on the value entered, due to this the Defendant offered a goodwill gesture of £20.00 for all three claims, totalling £60.00, this would have been the maximum they could have claimed if they chose the standard protection service (without fully protecting their items).

18.          Claimant declined this offer and began the court case against the Defendant. As stated in the Claimants Particulars of Claim, no separate detailed particulars were received since the Service of the Claim form.

19.          When booking this order, the Claimant is required to accept the Terms prior to paying, the Claimant agreed to this and in particular the following sections:

 

The Extent of our Liability

 

6.4 We shall only be liable for damage or loss caused to you if it is caused by our negligence, breach of duty or other wrongful act or omission, and only subject to the limitations set out within this clause 6 and clause 7.

 

6.5 We shall not be liable to you under any circumstances for:

 

(a) any direct or indirect loss (including, but not limited to loss of profits, or loss of goodwill); or

 

(b) any other special or indirect losses, costs, damages, or claims which do not arise naturally as a result of our negligence, breach of duty, or other wrongful act or omission.

 

6.6 We shall not be liable to you:

 

(a) under any circumstances where there are any material discrepancies (meaning more than 10% difference) between the declared dimensions and/or weights and the actual dimensions and/or weights;

 

(b) for any damage caused by our negligence, breach of duty, or other wrongful act or omission, which you have, or you have arranged to be, repaired, unless it is agreed by us that the repair work is to be carried out and that a repairer approved by us undertakes this work; or

 

(c) in any circumstances in respect of the items on the Prohibited Items; Damage to Items Protected for Loss Only; or for loss of or damage to the No Protection Items lists, unless otherwise stated by us.

 

The Limitation on the Amount of our Liability

 

6.7 If we are liable to you for any reason, we shall (subject always to clause 7) only be liable to refund to you the cost paid for the Service(s), unless you have purchased Parcel Protection for your Consignment from us.

 

 

 

20.          The Claimant has no real prospect of success as liability is excluded by the Defendant's standard Terms and Conditions which were agreed by the Claimant.

 

21.          The Defendant knows of no other compelling reason why the case or issue should be disposed of at court.

 

22.          The Defendant seeks no costs.

 

STATEMENT OF TRUTH

 

I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true.

 

 

Signed: Chelsea Walton

 

[Its WAR]

I already consider I have a good argument for having contracted with them to buy Parcelforce 48 which has £100 compensation, but they supplied me with a service without the compensation. ie not Parcelforce 48 but something purported to be Parcelforce 48. And they failed to return to sender one parcel which they chose to throw away instead.

 

I expect the camera to Finland might be a weaker point as P2G (will sell you a pointless  insurance) because the item is on their excluded list, so it wouldn't be covered even if I had ought insurance.

 

with a few good arguments to support an hour or so in a virtual court hearing (I guess it might go that way), I reckon I will give a good enough accounting for myself.

 

Happy to have any advise though.

[Its WAR]

Hi Bankfodder. 

 

The item they disposed of was the 50 year old wooden T square. It was damaged in transit and rejected by the addressee. (No risk to health unless your dad used it to smack the back of your legs in the 70s). I didn't insure it as the item was only worth £15

 

It was a gazebo that was lost.  I selected Parcelforce 48 (from the P2G courier options) and they used Parcelforce 48 as the service, but my contention is the service I received lacked the £100 compensation that comes as standard with PF 48, Therefore P2G  used something purporting to be PF 48 but was something of lesser specification masquerading as PF 48. I didn't take out P2G insurance because I expected PF 48 insurance to cover any loss.

 

The other lost item (to Finland) was a vintage camera (an item on their insurance cover for loss only listing). I didn't take out insurance because the item was only worth £40 and would only have cover for loss.

 

I have no photos of any packaging.

[Its WAR]

I haven't found anything on the P2G website to suggest you get anything different than the standard PF48 service.

 

There is nothing to suggest you are buying a discounted product at the expense of receiving a product with some features excluded.  Neither do they mention that PF48 comes with £100 compensation as standard if you bought direct from Parcelforce  (to find out that, you have to go to the  Parcelforce website).

 

They still offer you the option to buy extra insurance from them even though it is a standard item for the service. But why would you buy extra insurance if the product already has it included?

[Its WAR]

Mediation is on 5 November

 

[Its WAR]

Thank you. I must say, I will be disappointed if I cannot go to court. I have done all the work but don't get to eat the cake if they settle.

 

[Its WAR]

The Mediation was over after 3 phone calls. The first call explained the mediator was not legally trained and she explained the process. She asked what the case was about. I explained  the manner of the losses and she ended the call. It was very brief and did not allow for presenting my argument.

 

The second call was to explain to me how Parcel2Go saw the position which mainly dealt with the fact I chose not to buy insurance. But they were prepared to settle £20 per parcel and had previously refunded my postage.  I discussed the item that was thrown away and she seemed to quite agree with me.

 

Then the gazebo sent using Parcelforce 48, I  explained the defendants did not say anywhere on their website  that the service I selected would not come with the standard features and benefits  that automatically come with that service. I explained I could not go to the Post Office and buy Parcelforce 48 over the counter and then ask the Post Office if  I could  buy the service and pay less, if they would  exclude the insurance component........... because then I would not be buying Parcelforce 48.

 

If there is a product that gave me that service it would be called something else. It would be a different product and not the one I selected from the defendants.  But that is what the defendants sold me (a product that comes with standard compensation but which they had sold  to me without telling me they had removed the automatic compensation feature of the product).

 

 I explained that along with the nature of the losses (one being thrown away, the other being lost but the compensation being removed, the other item just being lost in the post),  the principle remains, the defendant being obliged to conduct their business in accordance with statutory law and they cannot create clauses in a contract which seek to enable them to bypass the law and reduce or remove their liability to it.

 

They cannot insist I pay extra money to them, and only  if I do pay,   will they then apply statutory law. I tried to explain their responsibility to exercise reasonable skill and care etc........ But now I was talking over her interrupting me. She wanted to explain it was not her job to hear or present the legal arguments to he defendant, that was the courts job. She was there to to mediate the price.

 

As I had agreed to Mediation and the form asked me if I was willing to negotiate the price, it was this that  was her part of her job, to mediate the price. I therefore explained I was prepared to offer the defendants  a mediated offer of not having me present the case to the court and expose them to judgement and further fees in exchange for them settling the claim in full.

 

She said that if I was not willing to offer a lower price, then I was not entering the mediation correctly. I explained I was offering them a substantial negotiated offer by removing the cost and risk of a hearing in exchange for them paying the full amount claimed. She argued with me that I should simply be willing to reduce the price. I explained that price was only one element of the negotiation but not the important one. A negotiation would normally cover price, size, quantity, weight and colour. You cant just limit a negotiation to just the price. 

 

She explained she can only go back to the defendants with my offer of a reduced  price and that she gathered I was not prepared to reduce, and that mediation was not going to be an acceptable way ahead unless I was prepared to reduce the price. I agreed mediation might not work if price was the only factor she could work with.  I was not prepared to offer a reduced price but was prepared to drop the case if they paid in full. She would phone the defendants and tell them.

 

The third call was to let me know my claim was for £180 plus postage and court fees. They had already refunded my postage  some time ago and were still prepared to settle £20 per parcel plus £25 issue fee but were not going to offer more. (in other words, they were not budging from their pre summons position).  As I  had told her previously, I was not reducing the price, the mediation had failed and the case must now go to court. 

 

That was it. It was very straight forward. I was surprised they refused to settle. But now (having spent hours and hours on this) much prefer to actually present the case in court. That will be an exciting couple of hours and well worth the investment.

 

 

[Its WAR]

Update on a locked thread. 

 

Hearing in 4 weeks.

 

Briefly P2G lost 3 parcels.

1. I sent a gazebo and  asked them to use Royal Mail 48 (which automatically comes with £100 compensation) but which P2G sold me without the compensation.

2. I sent a vintage wooden T Square, which they broke and threw away.

3. I sent a vintage camera to Finland which they lost.

Total claims £180

All claims were rejected.

 

So far, I might not be able to attend the hearing (which is a zoom meeting or similar) as I should be in S Ireland (depends on lockdown restrictions) and may not be able to get service if I go. I can request a new date for £100 court fee (Defendants are happy with this). Or I could discontinue the claim and start a new one but risk being required to pay their legal costs to date? I guess if I issue a new claim I could write a stronger witness statement to include Contra Proferentem regarding the Gazebo and Conversion for the T Square. Given the new arguments, they might decide to settle if they consider the case  will be harder for them to defend.  Or maybe I should wait until much closer the hearing date (when I know for certain whether  I can travel) and if I can't I can then attend the hearing and no one is any the wiser. Or maybe I just write a detailed presentation and just let the hearing go ahead without me? Or maybe I just risk it and try to get to join the hearing from S Ireland.

I really can't decide for the best. Ideas greatfully received.

[Its WAR]

Is this working?