taking car trader to small claims court

[BankFodder]

Firstly I hope you can see that my site team colleague has taken time to restructure your post. We need to have posts properly spaced and punctuated please. Otherwise they are extremely difficult to read especially when people are using the small screen.

Secondly, are you saying that the dealer who is holding your car is in fact the same company Kevin Adey Car Sales, or are you simply saying it is a similar story?

[BankFodder]

In that case what is the name of the car dealers?

[BankFodder]

Still waiting to know the name of the dealer – and by the way, I don't think you are at all in a position to begin a legal action yet.

I can imagine that you are not even sure of your cause of action yet or how much you are going to be suing for.

There are a lot of questions to ask you and you need to engage with this thread

[BankFodder]

There is no downside to mentioning the name of the dealer.

There is no reason to protect him and it will help us to to ascertain the best course of action and also so the best means of enforcement if you let us know.

also it may help others who may be victims as well.

There is no way this can possibly hurt your case will put you at any disadvantage whatsoever.

On the contrary, your protection of the dealer will bring comfort to him

Still waiting to learn the name of the trader.

Also, your initial post is pretty involved retaining lots of narrative which is not necessary.

It would help if you give us a bullet pointed chronology of events.

Also we don't know the price which was paid for this car.

I also realise that we don't know anything about the car either. – Make, model, mileage – et cetera.

[BankFodder]

You haven't given us any details about the car or is that a secret as well

Please will you post up the three letters that you sent in a single file multi page PDF format

I was using a phone before and I didn't notice that you had put up the car details.

Although I don't think we have the mileage or the year

As I previously posted, we would like to see the letters that you sent in multipage single file PDF format.

Do you know that your secret trader is still trading?

How far is the trader away from where you are in the country?

From the chronology you posted above, it would appear that the trader has never communicated with you at all – not even a single instance. Is this correct?

And as a matter of curiosity – I'd be very interested to know exactly what you stand to lose or what disadvantage there might be to you by telling us the name of the trader.

This is something we often have in this forum that people are reluctant because either they think it will prejudice them all because they think they will get into trouble.

One thing you need to understand is that this forum is not a piece of social media. You not here for a chat. You are here to get the job done and once we understand exactly everything, we will help you move forward at a pace which will astonish you.

One thing I should caution you about immediately is that when you bring a legal action – as you surely will have to, it looks as if the value of the action will be more than £10,000. The small claims limit is £10,000 on anything over that goes unto the fast track.

If you sue on the small claims track for a figure less than £10,000 then even if you lose, you will not have to pay any costs of the other side. If you see on the fast track then if you lose then you may end up paying a substantial proportion of the winners costs.

This is something to be borne in mind. It is a very important consideration

[BankFodder]

And when you say that your secret trader is still trading, you know that it's actually the same business and they haven't Phoenixed themselves? Have you checked?

Do you know if there are any outstanding judgements against them which haven't yet been satisfied?

Earlier on you said that this was not a franchise it was an independent business. I don't know if you find that reassuring but I can tell you that it could add complications

[BankFodder]

There is probably lots more information that can be had about these people – and it is much more complicated if thou an independent business because they are probably much more nimble if it comes to a point where they want to avoid responsibility or avoid a judgement.

For a judgement of about £10,000 or so, they may consider that it is worthwhile avoiding any enforcement judgement.

You won't let us know the name and so we would be unable to help you on this point. As I've already said, there are no downsides to revealing the name of this company. There certainly are downsides to not revealing the name.

Don't imagine that I'm simply asking this question as a matter of curiosity. We have much better things to do

[BankFodder]

Well this is precisely the kind of pattern of business reorganisation that would concern me.

I suppose you don't want to tell us the names of the previous business or the names of the previous directors, either.

[BankFodder]

And what's wrong with the trader finding it? As long as you are honest and straight dealing about everything you say, then there is absolutely no reason to play Secret Squirrel.

It is the trader who would want to conceal their identity because they wouldn't want to be associated with this by any other customers or potential customers. It is the trader who would rather maintain their reputation for being a reputable trading operation with integrity.

We have no problem with the trader finding references to them on this forum or anywhere else on the Internet. You never know, there may be other people who have been affected in some way by this trader and who are looking for some assistance or might have information which they could contribute to this thread but by keeping the identity secret, you are simply cutting yourself off from those potential sources of help. You also depriving other people of information which might affect their decision to chase the trader or even whether to buy a motor vehicle from them.

You say that they are only 6 miles away from you. Have you visited them? Have you made any attempt to communicate with them directly other than by letter?

I notice that the series of letters which you have sent to them so far are all dated this year. Everyone of them sets a deadline and then fails to follow up on the deadline. You simply undermine your credibility. There's no point in issuing a threat with a deadline unless you actually go ahead and carry out your threat.

I expect you think I'm being rather abrasive with you – and you would be right. I'm sorry about the loss of your father but to have allowed this to go on since 2019 is quite extraordinary. To want to protect the identity of the dealer is even more extraordinary, to seek advice from Citizens Advice was unfortunate – they are well-intentioned, and that's about it. To send a series of threats with deadlines which you never follow through is completely unhelpful to you.

If we continue assisting you, the next time you send a threat, you will have to follow through. You say that you don't know anything about bringing a small claim. Start reading up on this forum the steps involved in bringing a small claim in the County Court. It's not difficult but it's worth knowing the route so that you're not phased there in time you get a new piece of paper from the County Court.

Of course we will support you all the way as far as you let us.

Has there really been no attempts to communicate with this garage since 2019? Has there been no word from them at all since 2019?

You say that the car is no longer their premises. How do you know this? What attempts to be made to discover the whereabouts of the car?

[BankFodder]

Is this company registered with the information Commissioner's office?

I'm trying to form a strategy of dealing with this – please check up with the ICO website to see if they have a data protection registration.

Also it would be helpful once again if you would engage with this thread and answer the questions I've put above.

[BankFodder]

Yes, my comments are harsh and well justified. 

You should never ever send out deadlines unless you have a plan to follow up. Sending deadlines which are never followed up simply undermine your position. You need a plan. You put the plan into action and you don't get diverted.
I'm afraid that's the way it happens when you are considering litigation and when you are dealing with a dealer who seems to be causing you the problems that you are telling us about and which seems to be treating you with a level of contempt, then it is especially important to have a plan and to implement it.

 

You say that you have been communicating with texts. Do I understand then that since 2019 until early this year, pretty well two years – you have been communicating over a vehicle worth more than £10,000 simply by SMS?
Presumably you have got copies of his text replies – yes? I hope you have backed these up and it is important that you print them out.

I'm well aware that you came here asking for help with the particulars of claim – but we don't even know what we are suing him for. You should understand that if you sue him without understanding exactly who you are suing, where the car is, what the story might be and also your chances of enforcing a successful judgement, you might find that you end up having spent the cost of issuing a claim and then have nothing to show for it.

It wouldn't matter if the trader was a member of a trade association. They are useless and they are simply designed to protect their members and they have no interest in you.

What is it that you decided you are going to sue him for? I'm talking about – what cause of action?


 

[BankFodder]

So what is his actual gripe about doing the car and letting you have the car back or letting you know where it is?

[BankFodder]

Did you contact the ICO?

Have you sent him an SAR? You should do so immediately.

I think that you should sue him in the tort of conversion

[BankFodder]

An SAR is a subject access request and it is a statutory request for data under the data protection act. All organisations are bound to be registered with the ICO and they are bound to provide any personal data they hold on someone within 30 days.

However, I've just realised I made an error because your father has died and therefore the data protection rules insofar as data disclosure are concerned do not apply. Sorry.

I would suggest that you sue in the tort of conversion. As far as I understand it, the dealer is withholding the vehicle from you, refusing to give you access to inspect it and even withholding information as to its whereabouts.

You haven't told us exactly what he wants. Is there a sum of money or some condition has to be met?

So far as I can see, he is not entitled to deny you access to the car – at the least to inspect it, if he does have a valid reason for hanging onto it – such as unpaid bills and I would want to put it into the County Court to test it out.

It could be a very limited action that it might get him to respond and to state his position.

As far as I understand, all of your communication has been by way of texts and you don't have a clear message as to what he wants and what he wants it. Maybe I misunderstood. Please clarify.

The value of bringing an action for conversion is that it could oblige him to reveal the whereabouts of the vehicle, to make it available for inspection and to give a clear statement as to what is wanted.

If it really does need a new engine et cetera then I would have thought that you have lost confidence in this man and you would want to get the car away from him and have it repaired elsewhere.

If you see them in the tort of conversion, you can sue him for a nominal figure – say, £300 simply for the conversion and hopefully this would produce the other information you want.

I think you are entitled to seek confirmation of the condition of the vehicle and the cost of the repairs that he has estimated. And if you don't agree with those repairs then I would have thought that you would have grounds for taking the vehicle away, having the work done elsewhere and then suing him
it seems to me that he wants something to complete the work and you need to find out what that is, or else he wants something to let the car go – and you need to find out what that is.

The impression I have so far is that your communications have been a chaotic exchange of texts and it's not possible to discern exactly what his position is so that you can properly address it.

Tell me if I'm wrong


 

[BankFodder]

Well you started off wanting to sue him for the full value of the car. Because of the value and because you don't really have any details of what is wrong et cetera I think this could pose difficulties.

Has he actually given you a clear list of the work that he thinks needs doing and of the money involved? Have you any idea of what he reckons is the value of the work that he has carried out so far?

These questions are not intended to suggest that he is entitled to that. I'm trying to understand his position.

If you really want to see him on the contract then of course we will help you but I think it's going to be tricky and I don't think you are taking the best course of action.

I would start off by sending a letter in which you make it clear in writing that despite the fact that you have asked for access to the vehicle, he has declined so that you have been unable to understand the condition of the vehicle as it now is.

You have been prevented from understanding what work may have been carried out so far and also you are prevented from obtaining your own comparative estimates for the work which he believes needs doing.

Confirm to him also that not only has he withheld access to the vehicle, he has apparently moved it to new premises and refuses to divulge its whereabouts and this is been going on for X number of months.

After that, you can tell him that your position is still that he sold you a vehicle which should have been in satisfactory condition and yet it's clear that it's not and by his own admission it apparently needs a new engine despite the fact that it has scarcely been driven since it was purchased.

If you are not give you access to the vehicle allow you to take it away at the end of 14 days then you will sue him for the full value plus any ancillary losses and without any further notice.

Alternatively, you can say to him that as he will not grant you access to your own vehicle to carry out your own inspections, you will sue him for conversion under the Torts (Interference with Goods) Act 1999 and without any further notice.

Take your pick.

If you send him either one of these letters, then you should be true to your word this time. Given 14 days and on day 15 click off the claim.

This means that you will have to register with the moneyclaim website and start drafting your claim. You can save your work as you go. I would recommend that you agree a particulars of claim with us.

I would also point out in each letter that you have made strenuous attempts to contact him and to hold a dialogue with him and he has declined even to respond.

It's important that you get a proper paper trail down. I'm afraid that an exchange of text messages is not massively impressive.

[BankFodder]

I think you have been poorly advised. I think you need to reduce the extent of the problem and you would do this by recovering the vehicle.

I agree that he may argue that you then go on to cause some damage et cetera but I think he is unlikely to succeed in this given his behaviour so far over nearly 2 years.

I have to say that I had understood from you that you had no access to the vehicle and he was preventing it. I now understand in fact that you do have access if you want it – although at the moment you don't know where the vehicle is.
I would want to arrange to have the vehicle taken away by another competent and reputable garage. It should be picked up on transporter and taken to somewhere where it can be fully examined and then an estimate for repairs can be given to you.

Then you will get a clear idea of exactly the value of any damage he has caused and you can proceed against him for that. You won't be in any worse condition than you are now and in fact you will be in a better condition because you will have the vehicle so you no longer have to depend upon his reluctant communication or even complete lack of communication. Furthermore, it would be most unlikely that the repairs needed would be as much as the small claims limit.
At the moment you have no idea what's going on, the value of anything, and you are proposing suing him for the entire value of the vehicle.

You obviously dealing with a very difficult man and I see a lot of value in reducing your problems to their minimum.

I understand that you aren't particularly interested in keeping the car anyway so a proper repair job which eventually would be paid for by him – would allow you to get the car fixed fairly quickly and then sold on so that at least that is out of your hair.

If you tell him that you want to take the car away and he refuses then sue him for conversion. If he allows you to take the car away – then take it away, get the estimate and then start getting into a proper correspondence with him on the issue of reparations. I wouldn't allow the correspondence to go on too long – probably not more than a couple weeks after the you had obtained a full assessment and quotation for the work and then I would simply go in and sue him and stop putting up with this nonsense.

If you prefer to follow the advice of Citizens Advice or if your employee assistance service then you had probably better go and do it rather than wasting any more time. However, you seem to have been receiving advice from them and you haven't managed to move on particularly.

You suggest going to his premises with your own mechanic to carry out an assessment. I think an assessment should be in proper garage surroundings with a proper lift and all the tools necessary to do it. You shouldn't count on your current secret repairer being prepared to provide all those facilities to you. He sounds obstructive and I'm still amazed that you want to protect him. You are doing yourself a huge disservice.

Get away from him as quickly as possible. Get the quote. Then we will help you write to him and make your demands but at the same time if you have the money, you can put the work in hand, get the car fixed and then got rid of.

This man has had the upper hand precisely because he has the car in his possession and you have allowed that to happen. I would've thought that this would be the first thing that needs to change.

You ask whether if you bring an action for conversion that you still retain rights under the consumer rights act – the answer is, yes you do.


 

[BankFodder]

Well certainly simply suing him for the refund and leaving him with the car would be the simplest option of all because you wouldn't have to worry about taking it away, getting estimates, getting repairs et cetera. But litigation-wise it might be the most complicated.

 

In terms of the value of repairs, I think it would be most unlikely that it would be as much a small claims limit so no, I don't think it would be more. But on the other hand we really don't know because you have had no access to the vehicle and no way of assessing what you've been told.

If you took the car away and he refused to pay for the repairs then you would sue him for the repairs.

I don't think there's much more we can say. You understand the position and you want to protect his good name and reputation – that's a matter for you. So far I don't think you've put a foot right in the whole episode and I think you are continuing to do that.
 

See what you make of this particulars of claim

Quote

The claimant bought a Jaguar vehicle registration number XXX from the defendant for £XXX on XXX date. Very shortly afterwards, the vehicle developed serious defects and despite various attempts at repairs, the vehicle has continued to exhibit problems. The vehicle is now in the possession of the defendant and has been with him on and off for XX months during the entire XX months of the claimant's ownership. The defendant is fully aware of the nature of the defects and has been fully appraised. The defendant has supplied a vehicle which is manifestly not of satisfactory quality and the claimant has been fundamentally deprived of the entire purpose of the contract and seeks reimbursement in full of £XXX plus interest.

 

[BankFodder]

Well I'm sorry but your concern that he might use the fact that he is name has been exposed on this forum against you is completely unfounded. Are you being straight dealing with us? Or are you misleading us?

Nobody will be in the slightest bit interested that his name appears on the open forum – other than him, may be – assuming that he sees it. And I've already explained to you the reasons why it is in your interest to put his name up. Of course you are protecting him. You think you're protecting yourself – but there is no danger to you so the only person who is protected as the dealer. Bravo.

I quite agree that the matter should be concluded quickly. It should never have gone on this long anyway – even since January.

No you don't have to complete a more detailed particulars of claim at a later stage. There is an opportunity to do that if you want by clicking a checkbox on the online form – but you shouldn't. The best thing to do is to simply give the basis of your course of action and then leave the details are scant.

If you give a detailed because of claim then that gives him a hint as to what points he should address in his defence. Leave your particulars claim bare of details and then he will properly have to be more forthcoming in what he says in his defence and that will give you some clues as to where this is going.

I expect that if you took advice from Citizens Advice or your employee trade association, they would tell you to set out a detailed numbered paragraph particulars of claim. If you are a professional you are think of doing that but as a litigant in person you have a lot of licence and we need to exploit that.

In any event, it seems to me that you scarcely have enough information ready to make a cogent particulars of claim.

If you eventually decide to issue this action then leave the check box unchecked and do not send any other information. Let him deal with it.

Incidentally, you will also be giving up interest at 8% per year because that would be included in the small claims figure. That means that your £10,000 would be earning £800 a year we should be a nice little earner on top of the money you are claiming.

Of course if you are absolutely satisfied as to your case and your ability to defeat this person then you may as well claim for everything – even onto the fast track. You would then be able to claim litigant in person costs which currently are a measly £18 per hour – but it's better than nothing and of course it will add to his pain and add to your gain at the end. Of course have already pointed out that in that event, if you lose then you would be liable to pay a good proportion of his costs. If he employed lawyers, then they would be charging far more than litigant person costs. Where costs are concerned it's a very unfair system.

The small claims limit refers to the substantive amount of money you are claiming and not the costs.

You would be well advised to bring it to 50 quid less so £9950.

If you decide to do this then put up the letter of claim that you propose to send him so we can have a look. There's been a lot and said in your exchanges and I think that it needs to be laid out very clearly in your letter of claim so there is no doubt that he is fully aware.
Don't make it too strutting. There is no need to write like a schoolmaster

 

[BankFodder]

I didn't think you were misleadingly that I like the fact that you are indignant about it in yet you still want to protect the dealer because you are frightened of him.

You ignore the fees, but if you are asking for interest then interests would be included in the calculation as to whether it should go onto the small claims track or should be allocated to the fast track.

 

I understand very well that you've been advised to set everything out in paragraphs. However, we are advising you not to. We are advising you to keep your particulars of claim scant for the reasons I suggested above.

I've already said that if you lay everything out in great detail then you are providing cues for his responses. Why do you want to be helpful to him?

If you think that you're not giving enough information in your because of claim then he'll say so. The suggested particulars of claim that I laid out above is more than adequate to identify the cause of action and you don't need to do any more.

It's up to you who you want to take advice from – but this is taking up a lot of our time and we don't get paid. I expect that the people you are taking advice from are getting paid so they have the time to spend on it. However, just because they get paid doesn't mean that they are giving you the best advice. I can tell you that they are hobbled by what they see as good procedure. Our interests are in helping you use the system to to your best advantage and that means exploiting every advantage can.

I think you need to be less rigid in your approach

I'm not really sure what else we can say. It seems to me that you are taking advice from different sources and this simply causes confusion and extra work for everybody. I think you need to decide which horse you are going to ride and stick with it.

If you decide to take someone else's advice – then that's fine. You can update us from time to time if you would like. We will be intrigued to see how you get on.
 

[BankFodder]

I would suggest that you send the letter of claim this weekend. Register with the moneyclaim website, complete the details – save your work as you go. Paste in your particulars of claim – save it all and get ready to click it off on day 15.

Prepare the letter of claim. Post it up here. That can be more detailed than the POC which is included in the claim – but not too much. You simply want to establish a few points that need to be emphasised.

I'm sure we can get it ready by Sunday and you can send it off then. You may as well pay a visit and give him a copy as well.

If he replies then we can deal with that but once you have set your deadline, there won't be much he can do other than to agree. I don't think you should get into any further protracted exchange. I don't see that there is any particular basis for negotiation but you never know, he might make some kind of offer which appeals to you but by and large I wouldn't allow it to delay things. Play it by ear.

Check the particulars of claim that I have suggested. Make sure that you are happy with it and it represents the truth and that you are prepared to sign off as a statement of truth. If there is something that you think is really important to include then let us know but as I said, best tactic is to keep it scant.

If you are happy with this then start drafting your letter of claim. You won't be bluffing this time. So make sure that you are prepared to go ahead. I've already suggested that you look at this website – the steps involved bringing a small claim in the County Court. There's lots of information. It's very straightforward but it is worth being confident about the steps in advance.

Make sure that you understand enough that you know the way it's going to go so that you have a plan. It's rather disconcerting that you've already issued three letters of claim – each one giving a deadline – and yet you still didn't bother to check up how it all works.

You need to start taking control. You also need to let us know the name of the dealer.

It might be an idea as a preamble for this, to print out all of the text messages that you have exchanged and also any notes of phone calls. I hope you did take notes of your phone calls because I imagine you didn't record them.

It may well be that over the length of time, you have forgotten various aspects of the story and it would be a good time now to make sure that you have got everything lined up and that you are familiar with everything that he said.

My suggestion would be to print out each text message. It may be difficult to do them on separate pieces of paper but at the end, I would cut them and then paste them into separate pieces of paper with a page number on them – one, two, three – and dates for each one.

I would then create an index for them in an Excel spreadsheet and I would then enter each one by reference number and date and a brief note as to what it says. Use the index sheet as the front page of your bundle of printed text messages. The index sheet will allow you very rapid access to each one as you think it becomes relevant.

I think you will find this extremely useful. It may become very necessary if the matter goes to court and you have to disclose your documents or you have to rely on conversations which you apparently had by SMS.

Also, it will help you go back and refresh your memory and get everything into perspective again because over the period of time I can imagine that some of it has faded.

If you can do this before you even send your letter of claim, this would be a good idea because you could then make sure that your letter of claim picks up issues which may be were unexpressed at the time and need to be laid out now as part of a paper trail

[BankFodder]

I think you should start again.

The letters of claim that you have already sent have amounted to nothing.

Produce a letter of claim now that states your position and makes some particular important points – including the fact that you have been refused access et cetera. Use some of the points that have been made in the particulars of claim which I suggested above.

I really think you ought to understand that what you've done so far has not particularly helped and I think your to stay in position now and then move forward in 14 days.

[BankFodder]

If you look at the advice that we give on organising your court bundle, it will help you refine your understanding of what I have suggested

[BankFodder]

First of all, the letter is long although maybe that is unavoidable given the complexity of the issue and the length of time it has been going on.

Secondly, I think that a little more organised details of the events would be appropriate. Your letter is a bit discursive and I think you should simply make unassailable points

Thirdly, a letter of claim should ideally give one outcome that you are seeking and what will happen if the outcome does not occur.

You have put three possibilities –
one is to offer some kind of ADR (which you've already suggested in the past so this is simply a repeat of a proposal which you've already made and which has already been ignored)
another is to provide an adequate explanation
finally to receive a refund.

Your desired possible outcomes are far too confusing.

You should simply be demanding a refund or else you go to court. There is no need for the rest.

I don't really know what you mean by ADR. Who would be providing the ADR? Who would pay for it? ADR suggests that you would be prepared to accept some kind of compromise solution. Is this correct?

Also you should identify yourself as the executor of the your fathers will and therefore you are entitled to begin a legal action on this matter.

No need to start going on about the protocol.

 

Quote

 

I am the executor of my father’s will and as such I have authority to bring legal proceedings against you on behalf of his estate.

 

As you know, on 4 September 2019 my father bought a Jaguar vehicle registration number XXX from you.

You know all the basic facts but for the record I'm setting them out here for your information and for the benefit of the court.

• In less than two weeks the car started to demonstrate some serious defects and as a result the car was returned to you to repair an electrical fault.
• This repair has never been carried out despite the fact that you had the car ostensibly to carry out precisely this repair. When the car was returned, the electrical fault still presented.
• The car was returned to you on at least two occasions and each time after it was collected, the electrical fault was still present.
• My father made various attempts to contact you and to discuss the matter with you. Finally in March 2020, a full six months after the purchase of the vehicle, you collected the vehicle ostensibly once again you to carry out the repair of the electrical fault.
• The car was eventually returned to my father six months later in August 2020. The original electrical fault was still there that a further fault then presented itself in the form of a loud ticking noise from the engine.
• Your only suggestion was that the engine should be topped up with oil and taken for a long drive.
• My father followed your instructions and this did not resolve the problem. Still in August 2020, the car was returned to you for further inspection.
• Since August 2020 you have been in possession of the car and apparently the repairs are still outstanding. There have been extensive exchanges between yourself and my father by text message and you have informed my father that the repairs were still outstanding and in fact the car was now in an undriveable state.
• We have asked you repeatedly to advise us of the location of the car together with photographs so that we can make our own assessment and possibly carry out our own inspection and you have not provided any of this information.
• As you are aware, my father died in January 2021 and as executor and with other members of my family we’ve attempted to contact you to return the vehicle. You have told us that it apparently needs a new engine but once again we have not been permitted to visit the vehicle to carry out any inspection or to assess the situation for ourselves.

Since the beginning of April 2021 I have started writing to you formally and have received no reply.

I have sent you three letters and you have not replied.

 

Clearly the situation cannot go on any longer.

You sold a vehicle to my father which has been scarcely driven and in which has now been in your possession and not driven for a year and a half.

The car is not a satisfactory quality and my father has not had the use of the car for most of the period of ownership and has been deprived of substantially the whole benefit of the contract.

I take this to be a fundamental breach of contract and as such I consider the contract has been terminated by you and so I require you to refund me the purchase price of the vehicle.

If I do not receive payment of £XXX from you within 14 days then I shall begin a County Court action and without any further notice.
 

YS

 

 

 

I still think is a shame that you are going to sue for less than the value of the claim which should be the full value of the vehicle, plus any ancillary expenses plus interest.

Do you have it in writing from him that he refuses to tell you the location of the vehicle? Or why he moved it?

 

In view of the fact that he doesn't respond to anything, I would make sure that I sent this by side for recorded delivery and also a copy by ordinary first class post in case he refuses the signed for copy.

 

[BankFodder]

If you go to use a mediation service then you should use the one supplied by the County Court.

To suggest ADR when first of all you have no idea how it is organised, who would provide it, how much it costs et cetera is simply asking for trouble.
There is a motor traders trade association which will provide ADR – but don't forget that by and large they represent the trade. The fact you are asking whether or not conciliation services are offered free of charge shows that you don't know how it works so why on earth are you even bringing it into the equation?
You shouldn't be considering anything without understanding what it is you are considering or proposing.

Suggesting ADR immediately suggests that you are prepared to sacrifice some of your rights.  I don't see why you feel that you have to show some kind of goodwill after all the treatment that you have suffered – but on the other hand, we have understood by now that this is a man that you want to protect. Bless.

Suggesting ADR without having a court process underway means that you giving out signs that you are still not fully committed to bringing a legal action – and you have demonstrated that since January by sending three threats of legal action and not following any of them up.
By suggesting ADR again, you are going down the same path – why should anybody take it seriously.

 

On FastTrack, don't forget, you will only end up paying the other side' s legal bills if they win. On the basis of what you say, that looks like a very outside chance.

If you did go on the fast track then you would also recover your own litigant in person costs at 18 quid an hour. Not much – but then it delivers an extra slap to your secret friend. Also, you would be able to claim interest at 8% per year so you would be looking at at least two years interest on 10 grand – 800 quid a year. Plus by the time this is all over, you could be looking at 300 quid or so in litigant in person costs. But of course the fast track is a risk that you will have to take.

Check the figures I have put in the proposed draft, I calculated that it's about a year and 1/2 you haven't had the vehicle that you need to make it precise – at least within a month.

I suggest that you post up here before you send it off.

 

[BankFodder]

Note you can sue for both but you would need some definite evidence that he has moved the car and is no longer giving you access to it.

Please could you post up the message that you have had in which he refuses to grant you access to the vehicle.

I absolutely agree that you want to maximise your chances of nailing him. Of course by protecting him, you aren't doing that