2nd hand car fault - Cambridgeshire Motor House in Peterborough? - **Solved**

[BankFodder]

I'm more than a little puzzled that you spend £14,000 on a motorcar, that within three days you start to notice issues including a fairly significant issue with the stop-start system and yet you are prepared to start offering to pay some of your own money towards sorting out the problem.

In case you don't know, if they defect occurs within the 30 days of the date you take delivery of the vehicle, you have a right to reject the vehicle and to demand a refund or a replacement – at your option.

If you start communicating with the dealer and indicate that you are prepared to go along with the fault and start taking your own remedial action, then you risk losing your 30 day right to reject the vehicle. 

 

Presumably you like the car and you'd like to keep it – but I don't understand why you should be involved in addressing any of these problems.

Secondly, it is already clear that you are dealing with a reluctant dealer and if you start having your own work done on it you then give them an opportunity later on a further defects develop for them to say that the problems were caused by your interference with the vehicle.

What is the name of the dealer?
 

[BankFodder]

But if the fault exists, then you will be able to claim all expenses – including fitting, travelling, time off work if that can be verified – et cetera.

How far away from you is the dealer? I notice that you haven't responded to my question about this. Are you trying to protect them?

[BankFodder]

I think one of the important things to do is to keep a very tight paper trail. This means that you should inform Cambridge Motor House about every step you are proposing to take and give them an opportunity to comment.
This puts you in a more secure position because they are less likely to have any basis for distancing themselves from some action you take such as putting repairs in hand at a local Jaguar dealer and then looking to them for reimbursement.

In fact most of the messages which you should send them should inform them that you have noticed that such and such a defect has manifested itself, that in order to save costs and inconvenience to everybody, you are proposing to take the car to your local authorised Jaguar repairer for inspection. You should then inform them that if a defect is discovered, then you will give them – Cambridge Motor House – notice of it together with an estimate for repairs – and you will be looking to them and for reimbursement of any costs.
That sort of thing.

If they require that the vehicle is taken to them, then the position should be that if a defect is discovered, they will then be responsible for the entire costs of transporting the vehicle to them and returning as well as the costs of remedying the defect.

I'm sure you can see how lumpy this all is and I'm sorry to tell you that a very large proportion of the problems we get on this forum where people have bought cheapish cars – but from dealers far away from them, are in precisely the kinds of problem which you are experiencing at the moment.
People seem to identify a car hundred miles away – or sometimes even further than that – and they think it's the only car for them and it is a "must have". They forget to factor in the costs and difficulties associated with dealing with defects which might manifest themselves in the vehicle and which would necessarily be incurred by having to visit the remote dealer on repeated occasions.

Not only that, it looks as if you are already falling out with the dealer and that means that there may be additional problems trying to address other defects which may arise in the future because of the ill will which will exist between you.
There is nothing good about buying a vehicle from a dealer who is not close to you.

If you want to get rid of the problem completely, then you can assert your rights under the Consumer Rights Act 2015. Because you have bought the car less than 30 days ago, you can assert your right to reject the vehicle and require a refund.
I wouldn't at all expect the dealer to be cooperative on this and you may have to sue for the refund – but under the 2015 act, the dealer would then have a duty to refund you your money within a very short space of time.
Because the dealer will try to say that there is a default. However, you have got written evidence from a Jaguar dealer that there is a fault – and I would suggest that you would then get a second opinion just do back you up.
An inconvenience here is that you should then stop driving the car and of course you would then presumably be left without a vehicle until the matter is sorted out.

How did you pay for it?

A second solution and in a way much easier although it will not divest you of your long-term problem is that you could simply get another opinion as to the state of the vehicle and then give notice to the dealer as I suggested above, giving them an opportunity to comment and tell them that you are proposing to have the work done locally in order to mitigate your loss and their loss.

You would supply them with two estimates for doing the work – at proper good quality authorised garages – and then after waiting a reasonable period of time, say, seven days to respond, you would then proceed with the work and send the bill to Cambridgeshire Motor House. If they refused to pay then you would sue them in the County Court.
Your chances of success would be much better than 95% – and in fact Cambridgeshire Motor House would probably put their hands up because in order to defend they might have to travel to your local County Court and it just wouldn't be worth their while.


This would be a good quick fix for you – but of course it will poison the relationship between you and Cambridgeshire Motor House for the remainder of your ownership of the vehicle.
If the vehicle is in good condition and remains that way for a few years then it doesn't matter. On the other hand, if it starts developing defects in the next year or two, then you will probably have to lock horns with Cambridgeshire Motor House again.
Of course we will be here to help you.
 

If you paid for the car using a credit card or debit card or on finance, then you could involve the finance provider on the basis of section 75 Consumer Credit Act which provides that the finance provider shares the liability for the condition of the vehicle equally with the dealer.

Of course the finance companies don't like this kind of thing that as your ownership of this car is very recent then it probably wouldn't be too difficult. In order to go along this route, you would have formally to reject the vehicle under the consumer rights act – and I've commented on that option above.

 

If you think that you would rather keep the vehicle, then I would suggest that in addition to having a second opinion on the stop start issue, that you have the vehicle very thoroughly examined to identify all defects so that you understand exactly where you are and you can deal with everything at one go.
Of course this won't help you with latent defects which are not discernible at the moment. That's another can of worms.

[BankFodder]

Was the finance agreement with the bank associated with the purchase of the vehicle? Or was it a separate personal loan which provided you with cash to pay for the vehicle?

Your plan of action seems fine. Once again, your paper trail should not only be recording what you have done – but also should be very clear about providing the dealer advance notice of everything you are doing and giving them a chance to comment. All assessments and quotations should have corroborative assessments and quotations and the dealer should be provided with everything in order to be perfectly informed and to be able to make a valid comment.

Make sure you give the dealer adequate notice and time to respond.

I think while you are making all these enquiries, it would be prudent also to find out what the reasonable life of this battery would be.

If it went to court, and if the dealer really wanted to argue the fine detail, there could be an argument for saying that you should accept a pro rata reduction on the cost of a new battery – given that you only ever expected to buy a second-hand car with the second hand battery in it.
However, I will keep this part of the enquiry separate and private – and wait until the dealer brings the point up if at all.

If you want help bringing the County Court claim, then of course let us know

[BankFodder]

As this is a hire purchase vehicle, then section 75 consumer credit act applies.

I would copy the hire purchase finance company into everything. Tell the dealer that you are also beginning a section 75 process.

Make a complaint to the finance company – partly so that they are fully aware and they can raise their own objections – but also to spread a little extra trouble around.

 

Also, if you are raising issues with the dealer and the dealer is not responding or cooperating, then you should make sure that the finance company knows about this as well. They would certainly expect the dealer to cooperate in solving any problems.

[BankFodder]

First of all it's as if this dealer is trying to engage with you and that is very encouraging and laudable. Many don't.
I think this is worth bearing in mind. It will certainly be easier to work with him.
Bosch is certainly an extremely reputable make.
In terms of what you are entitled to, you are entitled to an equivalent of the battery that you have in the car when you bought it. Presumably this is Jaguar battery – but of course Jagger didn't make it. It was simply carry their brand and in fact it may even be a Bosch battery.

I already pointed out to you that in principle you wouldn't strictly be entitled to a brand-new battery. You bought the car second hand and you effectively bought the battery second-hand and so you would be entitled to a r second-hand eplacement.

If you are being offered a brand-new battery then so long as it's a decent brand, then you are doing very well as the dealer is not insisting on a pro rata replacement.

I'm quite sure that the dealer is right that he can source a battery much more cheaply than you would do if you got it directly from Jaguar.

Thinking long-term as well, you want to keep good relations with this dealer because you may need to go back to them in the future about other defects which might materialise. So if you show goodwill towards him and accepted solution, then I think you are opening the door to some dialogue and rapprochement.


 

[BankFodder]

Well done. I'm very pleased that you had a good result.

Also, hats off to the dealer who seems to have been prepared to step up to the mark. Clearly this is a dealer that is worth building bridges with – because as you probably realise, most of the stories we get here are about dealers who want to take the money and have no further responsibility.

Well done