No signs/ leaves covering lines - PCN complaint?? Meadow Close, Richmond TW10 7AJ

[Michael Browne]

What are the dates of the 3 pcn's?  Are they consequetive days?

 

Google street view does extend up Meadow Close, so post your photos

[Michael Browne]

You will certainly be able to have the last two cancelled on the grounds that,  since the vehicle was not moved during the whole period, it was a  'continuous contravention', where the convention is  that you cannot be punished more than once for a single offence.  The council may well reject that, but you would almost certainly win at adjudication, particularly since DYL's are 24/7 , ie not an intermittent restriction and therefore you were in contnuous contravention for the whole period you were parked there.

 

The first pcn is more contentious and would rely heavily on whether the councils pics show the leaves totally obscuring the DYL.

 

There should be pics on Richmonds website.

 

https://www2.richmond.gov.uk/PCNViewer/

Edited November 21, 2020 by Michael Browne

[Michael Browne]

That doesn't tell us much! Show us. Have you looked the pics for all 3 pcns. Even if they don't back up the leaves an gle ,  they may help confirm the vehicle didn't move.

 

 

[Michael Browne]

 

 

You need to submit a challenge for each pcn (separately, but refer to the others) before 24th Nov. 1st one DYL were totally obscured by leaves, 2nd and 3rd 'continuous contravention'.

 

They will reject, but re-offer the discount. At that point you will have to decide whether to continue with  all 3, thus losing the discount or accept you were in contravention, pay the discount on the first and be prepared to dispuute the continuous ones as far as adjudication if necessary.

 

You would be risking the full penalrty on both but there have been numerous Tribunal cases to support this ground:- 2110166557, 2140191859, 2140184092, 2140234882

 

Going by your pics (and without seeing the councils) personally I'd take all 3 to adjudicaion,  you'd almost certainly win the last two and would be risking the full penalty on the 1st.

[Michael Browne]

As long as you challenge before 24th the pcns will be on hold until they reply. I don't know how efficient Richmond are, but it could be 5-6 weeks.(esp with covid)  If rejected, as is likely, they will allow a further 14 days for the discount, so that's 7-8 weeks before anything has to be paid. As  I said, it's only at that point will you have to decide whether to continue with  all 3, thus losing the discount or accept you were in contravention, pay the discount on the first and be prepared to dispuute the continuous ones as far as adjudication if necessary.

 

To get to adjudication , the council has to send a Notice to Owner (28days after the 14 day discount runs out,)  You then have 28days to make representations to the NtO and they then must reject within 56 days. You then have 28 days to appeal to adjudication which at the moment are taking 10-12 weeks or longer. In other words, it could be April or May before you reach adjudication with a good chance of 2nd and 3rd pcns being cancelled. But be warned you must keep on top of everything , adhere to the timesclaes for each pcn and not let things slip, it will involve a fair amount of work on your part.

 

Looking at the council pics, I can't see an adjudicator allowing an appeal on the 1st pcn on the basis of obscured DYL's

Edited November 21, 2020 by Michael Browne

[Michael Browne]

26 minutes ago, HP Mum said:

 

The date to respond to the 1st ticket is 26th (discounted deadline).  Am working on my contest now.

Previously you said the 1st pcn was on 10th Nov, if so the deadline is today

[Michael Browne]

Personally , for 2nd & 3rd, I'd forget about leaves obscuring the DYL's.  

 

In the council pics taken 10 days before yours, the DYL's can be seen and there is nothing like the amount of leaves as in your pics and they wll reject on those grounds alone.

 

Far better to concentrate solely on "continuous contravention" as they then have no wriggle room and if they reject must justify why.

 

Mention that their own photographic evidence from all 3 pcn's show the vehicle in the same position, confirming that the vehicle did not move for the whole period

 

 

Edited November 24, 2020 by Michael Browne

[Michael Browne]

Adjudication would be a risk. The prime evidence would be the councils pics taken at the time of the contravention and these do show DYL's (admittedly worn). Whether an adjudicator would find that they were insufficiently clear is anybody's guess. Personally I'd take the discount, but it's your money if you're prepared to gamble.