CEL MNPR PCN - no permit - The Albert Social Club, Albert Stress, Fleet, Hampshire

[Keeping It Anonymous]

Hi all, 

 

I’m brand new here and someone on another forum instructed me to come here for advice. 

 

I lost my job due to Covid and have been trying to make ends meat by doing a delivery job. Unfortunately in my first week of doing it, I parked somewhere I shouldn’t have. 

 

I just got a letter in the post saying I have a £100 parking fine that’s reduced to £60 if I pay within 14 days. 

 

I parked in the car park at a social club for about about 15 mins not realising I couldn’t park there. I’m 99% sure it’s a council car park (says PCN).

 

It says at the bottom that failure to pay the amount due within 28 days of issue may result in Civil Enforcement LTD (the creditor) forwarding my account to a debt recovery agency and I may incur additional costs. 

 

As I say, I didn’t realise I couldn’t park there. If I didn’t pay it, are they “empty threats” or would they pursue this and I get charged more and have a debt agency come round?

 

I really don’t want to pay it if I don’t have to as I don’t have any money as it is. But at the same time I don’t want the price to go up and I pay more as well as it affecting my credit. 

 

I’d love it if people could help. Let me know what other info you need and I am happy to provide it.

[Keeping It Anonymous]

Thanks and yes sure. Should I be blurring out the PCN number?

[Keeping It Anonymous]

This is all that came in the post. I haven't received any photos of my car parked there. Please let me know if I should have blurred anything else out and I'll quickly remove this post then reupload the photos.

 

 

 

CEL PCN.pdf

Edited October 5, 2020 by FTMDave
Image pasted to thread now converted to PDF

[Keeping It Anonymous]

Thanks you think I shouldn't pay it?

What's the next step?

I assume I'm going to get more letters coming through my letter box that I'll continue to post on here but likely to just ignore?

 

Should I also fill in that form you sent me?

If so should I be filling it out from where it says

"For PCN's received through the post [ANPR camera capture"? 

You did say it's a different sort of Parking Notice so I'm not sure if I still need to fill that in?

[Keeping It Anonymous]

Ok thanks.

Am I able to private message you?

Currently I haven't written enough messages to be able to do that but there's something I wanted to ask in private.

 

Also it's a very small car park (about 15 car park bays maybe?) in a very quiet area

I highly doubt anyone's had the same issues in that car park since there's so little traffic and cars that park there but happy to write it.

 

I'm just wary over the fact that it might be easy to work out who I am from the date/time of parking and the car park it happened in? Based on this, is it ok to say the name of the car park? 

 

All of the information I have is on that letter I uploaded so when I fill in the form, I'll just be taking the info from that letter anyway.

 

Lastly, is it worth me speaking to the community club and say I'm very sorry for the car in my name being parked there (not mentioning I drove it). I can they say it was night and the driver couldn't see any signs about not being allowed to park there.

 

Then I can politely ask if they could let the designated driver off this time and in future when they see the car driving around doing deliveries (that is a popular road for deliveries), the driver will make sure not to park at the community club. Is that worth a go? Would the community club have the means and power to "cancel" my parking charge?

[Keeping It Anonymous]

Yes I stopped at the social club because I had 2 deliveries on that road.

I decided parking in one of the bays there was easier than on the road.

 

Once parked there I went to the first house to deliver (took a while to find so my car ended up sitting in the car park for maybe 10-15 mins) and then onto the next house to deliver.

 

I've done some research on Civil Enforcement Ltd online and it does seem they go all the way and take people to court.

 

Honestly, should I just pay up?

[Keeping It Anonymous]

I'm not sure if the signs were illuminated. I didn't see them but wasn't really looking. I was in a rush so quickly parked my car and jumped out of it. I can possibly have a look this Wednesday to check.

 

I'm happy to put up a fight but only if I'm likely to win. It would be horrible to lose the fight and end up paying more. I've never been to court and I probably wouldn't be able to argue my case in a clear and articulate way. But if it did get to that stage I hope i could have a spokesperson. Before that stage, I'll always go with the advice given on here!

 

Answers to the form below:

 

For PCN's received through the post [ANPR camera capture]

(must be received within 14 days from the Incident)

 

please answer the following questions.

 

1 Date of the infringement

27th September 2020

 

2 Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date]

Firstly I'm not sure if the letter I received is an NTK as it doesn't explicitly say "Notice To Keeper" anywhere. It says "Issue Date" 1st October 2020 although I only received the letter today (5th October 2020).
 

[scan up BOTHSIDES as ONE PDF- follow the upload guide]

 

3 Date received

5th October 2020

 

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [Y/N?]

N9
 

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event?

No
 

6 Have you appealed? [Y/N?] post up your appeal]

No
 

Have you had a response? [Y/N?] post it up

No
 

7 Who is the parking company?

Civil Enforcement LTD

 

8. Where exactly [carpark name and town]

The Albert Social Club, Albert Stress, Fleet, Hampshire
 

For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under.

cs-service / POPLA / BPA

 

 

 

On another note I've just realised it does say the time I was parked in the car park and it was much longer than I realised.  28 mins 48 seconds "apparently".

Edited October 5, 2020 by Keeping It Anonymous

[Keeping It Anonymous]

I've done some research and there would've been an ANPR system taking snaps of the driver's numberplate entering and exiting.

 

Whilst they can't prove the exact period of parking, nor what the driver did in the intervening period the court would likely conclude, on the balance of probabilities, the driver was 'parking' in breach of the signs. But CEL's PCN's are bad and they don't have to put photos on there is what I've read.

 

Also, called the social club and went to voicemail.

They open at 3pm so trying again then.

Called via a private number.

[Keeping It Anonymous]

I actually asked this same question on another forum but I was reluctant to mention that in case the two forums are competitive: 

 

http://forums.National Consumer Service.com/index.php?showtopic=136222&st=0&gopid=1590099&#entry1590099)

 

The advice on that forum was a bit different and at times contradicted what I was told on here.

For example, someone recommended sending a letter to them as no PoFA compliance, saying:

 

Dear Sirs,

I have just received your Notice to Keeper xxxxx for vehicle VRM xxxx

You have failed to comply with the requirements of Schedule 4 of The Protection Of Freedoms Act 2012 namely, but not limited to, failing to give notice of keeper liability as prescribed by section 9 (2) (f) of the Act.

You have also failed to give the invitation to keeper in the format prescribed by section 9 (2) (e) of the Act.

You cannot, therefore, transfer liability for the alleged charge from the driver at the time to me, the keeper.

There is no legal requirement to name the driver at the time and I will not be doing so.

I do not expect to hear from you again, or your debt collectors, except to confirm that no further action will be taken on this matter and my personal details have been removed from your records.

Yours etc


First class post with a free certificate of posting from a post office

 

 

What do you think of this idea?

Also I hope you don't mind me posting on another forum too.

[Keeping It Anonymous]

Interesting, ok.

 

When you say "photos" do you mean photos of the signs in the car park?

I'll try to get some photos but might be tonight or tomorrow.

[Keeping It Anonymous]

Appealed via postal letter today (1st Class Signed For).

 

Also emailed local MP. Also called social club but no response so voicemail been left.

 

Photos taken of social club parking signs below. WIll try to get a photo at night. Includes: