Your parking ticket may be unlawful

[rogerebaker]

sorry everyone, but could you have a look at my ticket? It's different from the other tickets described here. First off, it was issued by the Police, not a local council which is worrying.

 

Also, they got the car colour wrong (The car is quite obviously green, not blue). I received this ticket parked on double yellow lines in a small market town centre. People always park in this spot and have done for years, and no-one has to my knowledge been penalised in this way.

 

Any comments would be much appreciated

 

court.

 

As you rightly point out these are tickets issued by the police or traffic wardens and are different. your right of appeal is to a local magistrates court who will hear the case if you dispute it.

 

The fact that the colour is wrong is poor but would a magistrate cancel the ticket on that basis. Its a toss of a coin on that one.

 

Have a look at the road markings and the signage. Personally I think the chances of that been correct are slim to nil look at the link below has the Road markings as they should be.

http://www.dft.gov.uk/stellent/groups/dft_roads/documents/page/dft_roads_610051.pdf

 

Letter to the police highlighting the mistakes may get it cancelled before

[rogerebaker]

My parking ticket has "Date of Notice" is it inavalid ????

 

 

I Had a thought what if I sent a letter disputing this parking fine saying that I had another 22 mins on my pay and display ticket? After all its only one individuals word against another, the parking attendant " Has reasonable cause" well can't I have reasonble cause to say the person was mistaken?

 

as I say just a thought.

 

Date of notice or date of issue is acceptable as long as it also has a date of contravention.

[rogerebaker]

This gets more confusing I think I have developed a headache. Any body know the wherabouts of the MODEL parking ticket as mentioned in a previous posting.?

 

http://www.dft.gov.uk/stellent/groups/dft_roads/documents/page/dft_roads_027631.pdf

[rogerebaker]

The only thing that has to be on the ticket is what is mentioned in the Road traffic Act 1991 ( See link) Road Traffic Act 1991 (c. 40)

 

The guidelines issued by the DOT are just that and dont automatically invalidate the PCN although as far as I can gather the ajudicators expect them to abide more or less with it.

[rogerebaker]

Also regarding the Ealing Council parking ticket, when it comes to the part where they say is if it is paid within 14 days there is red marker scrubbing out the wording of the penalty notice - eg:

 

if the ...............................(there is just red marker here with nothing to be seen to what they've scrubbed out) before the end of the period of 14 days beginning with the date of this notice. the amount of the penalty charge will be reduced by 50% to 40.00

 

There is the date of notice and date of contravention so if i can get them on this it would be great.

 

any help would be greatly appreciated as the 14 day period is coming up!

 

cheers

 

The words srubbed out is probably the word fine which they are not allowed to use. If theres nothing in its place then the request dosnt make sense.

 

I would appeal I think you have a good chance on that alone. The formal appeal to the council will no doubt fail but take it to the ajudicators.

 

regards notice / issue

 

either is acceptable provided it also has a date of contravention.

[rogerebaker]

Hi,

 

Thanks for your help regarding my Ealing borough parking ticket. I contacted Neil Herron but he is completely overloaded with enquiries. They have suggested what you said - appealing. You say take it to the ajudicators - does that mean I have to appeal to the council first?

 

Thanks for any help.

 

Yes

 

when you get the NTO you can appeal to the council. If thats turned down then you can appeal to the ajudicators

[rogerebaker]

i just got a piece of paper demanding £170 (£85 if paid within 14 days) which had been issued by a company called UK parking control ltd.

 

according to the letter i entered a 'clients private property' and was parked there for 40 minutes. apparently the following terms and conditions were 'clearly placed at the entrance of the car park, and prominent places within the car park' (which in need to go back to the car park and check):

 

PARKING CONDITIONS

ENTRANCE FEE £170 (£85 IF PAID WITHIN 14 DAYS)

you agree to be bound by these terms and conditions when you enter this private car park for any reason. (i.e. your vehicle is parked or stationary, or are delivering/collecting or you have broken down) you agree to pay the sum of £170 (£85 if paid within 14 days) to the UK parking control ltd.

 

i find this......cant think of the word.....

 

 

what should be done???

 

 

Have a good look thru this thread its got lots on private parking tickets.

 

In essence the so called contract is with the driver. As they can only find out who the registered keeper is thru DVLA and you have no obligation to tell them who was driving they can not do a thing. They will send you a NTO reply saying you were not driving and have no liability. They will threaten you with all sorts but they are empty threats. There is absolutely nothing they can do. If they want to take you to county court to recover the debt they have got to proved you were driving. They cant.

[rogerebaker]

hello all this is my first post, and the forum has been really helpful.

 

i was hoping someone could help me with my particular pcn problem.

 

i was parked on a single yellow line in luton and went into a takeaway to collect my food order.

 

as i collected the order i saw a traffic warden WALKING up to my car as i pulled away the warden lifted my windscreen wiper and stuck the pcn with out actually placing it in the plastic wallet (if this helps my case). i also noticed that the pcn was not even fully printed before the warden attached it to my wiper as the bottom 1/5th of the pcn was not even printed properly.

 

do i have a chance

 

Yes. Informally appeal first, which will probably be turned down, Then appeal again when the NTO comes,

that will probably be turned down

 

Then appeal to the ajudicators.

 

If the tickets is only half filled out theres no way it can comply with the RTA 1991.

 

Its also fairly dubious whether they have actually served it properly. It has to be either given to you or attached to your vehicle.

[rogerebaker]

its an entrance fee

 

although the person whom apparently "parked on our clients private property" is different to the owner of the car.

 

therefore the person who the PCN is issued to according to the piece of paper is different to the person that may have actually parked on the private property. ROGEREBAKER

 

i also paid a visit to the address where the "patrol recorded your vehicle".

the terms and conditions i posted yesterday WERE NOT placed clearly as they should have been according to the piece of paper i recieved from the company.

 

the pcn states that the T&Cs were clearly placed at the entrance of the car park......as long as i have not parked past the T&C's the PCN should not be valid right?

 

KZ. This is not about whether the PCN is valid it is a private company so non of the Road traffic Act applies. If you do nothing you will get a letter from this company demanding the money. They will then threaten you with all sorts but there is nothing they can legally do. The alleged contract is with the driver not the registered owner so unless you tell them you were driving theres no way they can prove it. The only way they can legally try and enforce this is through a county court and then only if they can identify the driver. Which they cant.

 

When you get the Notice to owner from this company come back on the site and someone will advice you on what to do. Be aware that they will threaten you with collection firms, courts etc etc but they are empty threats.

[rogerebaker]

Sorry to butt in on your conversation but I have tried reading all 19 (!) pages of this thread and have give up trying to find an answer. Could you guys' help?

 

I recieved a penalty charge noice today for parking in a bay without displaying a valid ticket/voucher. I had parked, walked 2 metres to the ATM withdrew £10, ran 100m down the road to get change and ran back shouting NO, No, No to the parking warden who was ticketing my car. I explained that I went to get change and he saw that I was running but he said "sorry it's done".

 

My question is : Do they not have to allow you a resonable time to get a ticket in the first place?

 

Roen

 

Common sense would suggest that you should be given time to get the ticket but as we all know common sense plays no part in PCNs. In your case I think your gonna struggle. I would make an informal appeal firstly to the council and go from there. If it ends up at the appeal hearing the ajudicator has no discretion in other words the only time the ticket can be cancelled thru the use of discretion is before it gets to the formal ajudicator appeal.

 

Have a look at the PCN to make sure its enforcable. There are many bits of it which may render it unenforcable all of which are on this thread somewhere.

[rogerebaker]

Hi all,

This is my first post. Having spent many hours over two evenings to understand all the issues of PCN validity I am now quite confused. I have received a PCN recently from LB Brent. It does have two dates but no colour of the car and there is no signature of the parking attendant.

I would be obliged for your comments so that I can get me wording right.

Many thanks.

 

http://www.system-solutions.eu/front_ticket.jpg

 

Your PCN appears to comply with the RTA 1991. The colour of the car and the signature are not required by the RTA. The guidance issued to councils however indicated that it should be included. The chances of winning on that basis are a bit thin.

 

Have a good look at the road markings and make sure they are complient. I havnt found one that is yet !!

[rogerebaker]

Hi

 

I received a PCN a little while ago, and i'm not sure if its worth contesting.

 

The ticket reads as follows - [omitted] - privacy reasons, they are present on the ticket

 

PCN Number: [omitted]

Date of Issue 04/11/2006

Vehicle Registration: [omitted]

Make: Volkswagen

Colour: Red

 

Seen In Old Manor Car Park

at 13:06 on 04/11/2006

 

Parking attendant 797 has reasonable cause to believe that a Penalty Charge has been incurred because the vehicle was parked in a pay and display car park without clearkly displaying a valid pay and display ticket.

 

Is this valid?

 

Does it require Date on Convention on the ticket to be lawful, or is Seen in adequate?

 

Thanks

 

-note-

 

Also, the parking ticket is also unsigned.

 

I think your going to struggle with that one. The main issue around dates it is must have two. Yours does.

 

How is the period for payment described !!

[rogerebaker]

Contact Neal heron regarding your leeds tickets. I believe he is on their case. The link is as follows

 

Neil Herron

 

Re UKcps ticket the advice I gave earlier equally applies to them. All the issue with dates etc etc does not apply as it isnt issued under the Road traffic Act 1991. Have a look on the Pepipoo web site (Link on earlier post) Its got lots regarding these sort of companies.

 

regarding cancelling the cheque. I would if It was me but thats entirely your decision. It will probably cost you £10 and you will have to give your bank a valid reason. I would also make sure the cheque is returned to you as I wouldnt be comfortable with them having my bank details.

[rogerebaker]

what are the chances of me getting off with one issued by Leeds City COuncil that was issued to me while parked in a taxi bay thing?

 

You would think i would find some where else to park would you! lol

 

Im at risk of repeating myself here but neil Heron of metric Martyers is fighting tickets issued by Leeds.

 

He may be able to save you 30 quid

 

Neil Herron

[rogerebaker]

Denzil.

I think the Road Traffic Act Act 1991 clearly states that the council can issue and administer on and off Road parking. It states in a number of places that the Local authority must do this and that so I think your on a loser there.

 

Car parks can certainly be considered Roads under certain circumstances. i.e. Pub car parks, Drink Drive etc etc.

[rogerebaker]

my name is Mike and i am a parking ticket wictim

 

 

I got a ticket a few weks ago,

I disputed it of course

on the ground I have never received it.

 

I do remember that day I "got it",

I remember having seen Parking attendant around

but I drove off before he even started issuing ticket

It has never been attached to my car or presented to me

 

I asked for a photographic evidence 8-)

as AFAIK every single attendand in London Borough of Kensington and Chelsea carries a camera and takes a pictures.

I have disputed tickets before and always won if they couldnt provide a pic.

 

 

this time I got a letter:

 

 

 

 

 

 

What i can do next?

I can appeal against that decision, of course

I received Parking and Traffic Appeal Service form.

 

But it means my words against PA's words.

They cannot prove he's issued it correctly

but I cannot prove it hasn't been issued.

 

 

should I just pay bloody fine?

I have 2 days left to pay discounted rate of £50

 

I would appeal out of a matter of principle. I dont think it is a certainty that they will believe the parking attendant especially if they havnt got a photo. If you read the Moses V Barnet high court judges ruling he believed the motorist when he said it was never placed on his car.

 

I know the K and C NTO was recently proved to be defective as it gave 28 days from date of notice and not 28 days from date of service. Have you had a good look at your NTO.

[rogerebaker]

A citizens arrest can only be made when the matter is more serious, certainly dosnt include parking matters or failing to stop for a traffic warden or equivalent

[rogerebaker]

There is no particular form of words for a citizens arrest other than gotcha!

 

You can only make a citizens arrest AFTER the crime is commited except in the case of protecting the vunerable such as the elderly/infirm or children. Then you can act just BEFORE the commission of the crime, but you better have good grounds for your suspicions

 

JonCris.

 

Im not sure there are any exceptions to the citizens power of arrest as regards elderly / infirm. An Indictable offence must have been committed (no exceptions). Only a constable can arrest prior to an offence ( About to be committed).

 

Although all offences are now arrestable for constables provided certain conditions apply this is not the case for a citizens arrest. Only indictable offence. ( Which includes most things like theft, damage, assault) but certainly doesnt include any sort of parking offences.

 

Its a bit of a mine field really

[rogerebaker]

HI Again

I have had a look throught thread and hve not been able to find what i am loking for (my fault I am sure)there seems to be very little information on tickets issued under the 1984 act.I was parked in a council parking spot and am dissabled my badge had run out last month and i am waiting for the new one.

Is ther no prescribed form that tickets issued under this act have to take .Any information would be very appretiated.

 

Cheers Peter

 

Peter

 

The tickets issued under the 1984 Act are different in that it is not decriminilised.

 

The final ajudicator is a magistrates court which if you do not pay is where it will end up and not the parking appeals service.

 

You can appeal firstly to the council who will look at your appeal and then if rejected have the choice to either summons you or forget it.

 

If you do decide to challange it you could be liable to costs at a magistrates court.

 

Neil Herron who runs Metric martyers website has done just that on a number of occasions with interesting results. If you want good advice on this it would be worth contacting him. put Metric martyers in to Google and it will come up.

[rogerebaker]

Angelsdawn

 

There is a case on the NPAS website which is similar to yours. The ticket was so flimsey and had no method of fixing it to the windscreen it slipped of the dashboard and a FPN was issued.

 

The appeal was won by the motorist as the ajudicator stated that the ticket should be easily attached the vehicle and not flimsy or words to that effect.

 

Another thing to bear in mind is that the councils almost always reject the first informal appeal keep trying hopefully they will see common sense.

 

I will try and find it and post a link

[rogerebaker]

Here is the link

 

http://www.parking-appeals.gov.uk/about/cases/MC00227%20Hepworth%20Allowed%20flimsy%20P%20&%20D%20ticket%20-%20identity%20removed.doc[url=http://www.parking-appeals.gov.uk/about/cases/MC00227%20Hepworth%20Allowed%20flimsy%20P%20&%20D%20ticket%20-%20identity%20removed.doc][/url]

[rogerebaker]

Be a bit careful here folks. There is a difference between what must by law be on the PCN and what the DOT state should be on it.

 

The RTA 1991 states

 

(3) A penalty charge notice must state—

(a) the grounds on which the parking attendant believes that a penalty charge is payable with respect to the vehicle;

(b) the amount of the penalty charge which is payable;

© that the penalty charge must be paid before the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the date of the notice;

(d) that if the penalty charge is paid before the end of the period of 14 days beginning with the date of the notice, the amount of the penalty charge will be reduced by the specified proportion;

(e) that, if the penalty charge is not paid before the end of the 28 day period, a notice to owner may be served by the London authority on the person appearing to them to be the owner of the vehicle;

(f) the address to which payment of the penalty charge must be sent.

The absence of things like the colour of the car, signature of TW do not mean it dosnt comply.

The guidance issued by the DOT to councils on how to design a PCN advised them that things such as colour should be included but it is only guidance and dosnt render the ticket automatically void.

[rogerebaker]

Having the wrong colour is different from having no colour on the PCN.

 

My point is there is a difference between what is legally required ie in the 1991 RTA and what is guidance from the DOT.

 

The two dates was considered necessary by judge Jackson to make the PCN complient with the law. If the PCN only has one date you will win

 

If you go to ajudication and the only fault is there is no colour shown or its unsigned you will in all probability loose.

 

This is of course only my opinion but its based on a fair bit of research and personal experience

[rogerebaker]

Dude

 

Are you sure this is a PCN issued under the 1991 RTA

 

should have it on the top of the PCN.

[rogerebaker]

My gren car was incorrectly stated as 'dark' on a PCN.I appealed and they rejected saying it was difficult to correctly state the colour of the car because it was dark.Car was parked in a Controlled Parking Zone, seen at 6.45pm. The nearest sign say 'Pay as display 8.00am -6.30pm and match days'.I parked on match day.The sign does not say 'Match day 8.00am to 10pm, as replied by the council.What Act, or legislation should I quote to say ticket is invalid with incorrect colour of vehicle.They argued in the letter saying colour of vehicle does not make the ticket invalid.Help pliz

 

Why dont you ask to see the Traffic regulation order that refers to this area. I did the same with a PCN and found it to be completely wrong in almost all aspects. They are generally available online if not a FIA request to the council will get them for you.