Bought a Clocked & damaged Car

[sallyblackburn]

Hello, I need help please.

 

I bought a used car last year from a main dealership.

I bought the car over the phone having read the description on autotrader and having spoken to the dealership.

The dealership then created a video for me, which described the car and showed the vehicle.

No issues were disclosed and the car was described as being in "Great Condition" in the advert and in "almost immaculate condition" in the video presentation.

 

I agreed over email to buy the car for £10,000 on condition that the car was "as described on the advert and on the calls and video"

 

I paid for the car by credit card and we then took a train 200 miles to pick the car up 2 weeks later.

We were meant to collect the car at 15:00 but the dealership moved it to 17:00 the day before collection.

This is important as it meant it was pitch black when we collected the car.

On collecting the car we had a look, but obviously couldn't see anything.

 

Over the next week or so I noticed the paint wasn't amazing and there was some badly sprayed parts.

I got a proper car inspection company to look at the car and they said it was accident damaged and needed £3000 in repairs, they also discovered that the mileage had gone backwards on 2 MOTs and therefore the car is clocked.

 

As such I had a car that is accident damaged, in need of £3000 in repairs and worth a lot less that I paid even after the repairs due to the mileage issue.

The mileage discrepancy reduces the value of the car by around £5000 as there is an assumption it has done 1-20k miles and not the 30k miles i paid for!

 

I wrote to the dealership and they denied any wrongdoing and offered to let me return it for £3000 less than I paid.

I obviously rejected this.

 

I then took the issue up with my card company who took 9 months to reject my section 75 claim because

"We have looked through the EXPERTS report and believe that this has no bearing on the case. 

 

You have stated previously that you did not check over or test drive the car before purchasing it as it was dark when you went to collect it. 

It is the responsibility of a customer to check goods before taking them away and to check they match the description. 

 

Unless the car was specifically advertised as not being in an accident and there is evidence to show that the dealership knew this and acted dishonestly, we do not believe that there is a valid claim under Section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974."

 

As such i am now stuck.

I thought I would have a claim as they clearly lied about the condition and I know that selling cars with a mileage discrepancy is against the CPUTR 2008.

 

Please can anyone help?

Do you think the FOS will help me?

 

 

[sallyblackburn]

 

The card company is cr*ati*n. I calculated the total loss at the cost to repair it plus the loss of value even after the repairs, which is around £8,000.

 

I took this all to the company within a month of finding the issue but they fobbed me off and then finally offered me a 6k refund after 5 months.

 

I then took it to the card company who took 9 months to give me a final decision (final decision 3 days ago giving me 6 months to go to FOS).

 

I know i should have gone to look, but it is a massive manufacturers dealership and with the photos and the video and the emails I have, I felt safe as the dealer was M*er*edes!

[sallyblackburn]

Apologies. it is MB Portsmouth

 

https://www.marshall.co.uk/mercedes-benz/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI3P_Xw7-u6wIV14BQBh0CUQ6CEAAYASAAEgKQefD_BwE

[sallyblackburn]

The reply was over email as that is how i made the complaint:

 

 

[sallyblackburn]

Thank you for the reply. Given that i have had the vehicle 18 months I didn''t think it would be a refund situation, but a damages/ partial refund one. I think i must be confused. I have already asked for a SRA from Creation.

 

I have just checked Trustpilot and it's clear they do not care what people think, the reviews are terrible, I am really shocked.https://uk.trustpilot.com/review/www.creation.co.uk

 

Is the following ok for Creation?

 

Sirs,

 

Thank you for your reply.

I wish to make a formal  complaint that you have made a decision that is not fair and ignores the law.

 

The 2015 Consumer Rights Act makes it clear that the trader has a duty to describe the goods accurately and it is simply not true that the consumer has a duty to inspect the good as stated in your email.

 

The DEKRA report is very clear that the vehicle is accident damaged, and has been poorly repaired and the MOT data shows 2 instances where the mileage was recorded having gone backwards.

 

The vehicle was not as described and there has been a clear breach of contract by the seller.

 

Faithfully

 

 

X

 

 

[sallyblackburn]

I asked for the SAR last week on the day they sent the email denying the s.75 claim.

 

The losses are the 2,413.50 that it will cost to put the accident damage right plus the loss of value due to the mileage and accident history. Even once repaired the car is only worth half of the sale price as on a Mercedes mileage is everything I've estimated the total losses of £8943.50.

[sallyblackburn]

The purchase price of £9800 plus the Dekra report, so just under £10k. Won't there be a charge for using the car for 18 months?

 

I genuinely thought that geting it repaired and claiming for the loss of value was my only option. Sorry for any confusion!

[sallyblackburn]

It was £20 each for the single tickets, but my mums grave is there so that was a reason we went, to see family etc and we went out in sussex with a friend on the way home, it was a planned jolly to be honest. The fuel back was given to us for free by the dealers so i am happy not to push it over 10K.

 

I see your point about the decuction for use in light of the complaint being made early. Thank you. I have sent your edited email to Creation now.

 

Out of interest, would you sue Marshal or Creation, or both if it comes to it?

[sallyblackburn]

Thanks for the advice.

Would you ever consider bringing the claim against Creation and not the dealer.

This would be allowed under s.75 and would have the effect of leaving the defendant as someone who is going to get their money back from a third party (The dealer) if they lose?

 

The care has done approx 20k miles BTW so 50% more than when bought, if you believe the oddometer (which nobody does)

[sallyblackburn]

Yes, I've done around 20k miles. I had no other money to buy a different car and I had been told that it was a damages case and not a refund case by my friend who i thought knew about these things!

 

My thoughts about just suing the bank were to keep it simple and also to be able to sue for the breach of COBS easily in the same particulars?  Also Creation could always add the dealer as a defendant couldn't they?

 

Thanks for all the help. I will keep you informed.

[sallyblackburn]

I've got copies of both the ad and the video.

the video is still online but I don't want to share it as it has my name on it.

I could send you a link?

can i message you?

[sallyblackburn]

Sorry I already sent it you but it clearly shows names and the reg of the vehicle which i am not comfortable sharing publicly and i'm not tech savvy enough to blank out, sorry

[sallyblackburn]

"By having 20,000 miles of use from the car, how would you calculate that in terms of the value you have enjoyed?"

That's a great question and is part of the reason that damages to repair and the loss of value claim were advised i think.

It's an area that concerns me.

[sallyblackburn]

I calculated it as £8943.50, being 2,413.50 to repair the vehicle and £6530 for the loss of value even after the repairs due to the vehicle being clocked and having the status of being an accident damaged vehicles.

 

Is that the wrong way to look at it?

Sorry if I sound thick

[sallyblackburn]

My calculation of damages is loss of value due to the mis description, £6530, repairs 2413, leaving a car that is in working order and worth £3270 at the time of purchase, that i would be required to keep. It would be worth less now due to the additional age and use.

Edited August 22, 2020 by sallyblackburn

[sallyblackburn]

The mileage was recorded backwards on 2 occasions and excluding the mot data, using the recorded service data shows that the vehicle did 2300 miles in 2 years, which is not a believable value for this type of car. 

 

Additionally, they held back the HPI and MOT data saying they couldn't find it when we collected the car, and when they finally sent it after lots of chasing, they explained the discrepacy by claiming they'd made a typo at the time they did the check, so theres lots of stuff other than the MOT's. 

 

I have just found the previous owner's paperwork in the spare tyre, there is lots of it and it makes clear the car has been clocked. 

 

I am currently SAR'ing Creation, Mercedes and Marshalls, so that may produce more.

Edited August 31, 2020 by sallyblackburn

[sallyblackburn]

I'm waiting for the response to the email you told me to creation and the SAR results. I also made a complaint to the CEO of Mercedes in case they actually care about their customers. They have emailed to say they are still investigating.

Edited August 31, 2020 by sallyblackburn

[sallyblackburn]

I sent the email BankFodder advised to Creation and got the following reply. It is important to note that i have sent them the video presentation that clearly has the word immaculate in, also they have ignores the CRA 2015 issue, and the mileage issue once again:

 

Thank you for your email.

 

My colleague and I have reviewed your file again and we cannot see any evidence (such as an advert for the vehicle) to show that it was in immaculate condition at the time of sale.  Our position therefore remains unchanged. 

 

I appreciate that you will be unhappy with this decision and I refer you to my email of 20 August included below, which contains details of the Financial Ombudsman Service, if you wish to refer your case to them for an independent review.

 

Kind regards

 

XXXX

 

 

XXXX

Chargeback Manager

Creation Financial Services Limited

 

 

[sallyblackburn]

• cost of vehicle £9800
• cost of any repairs – Repairs to bodywork, refixing of bumper and resraying of panels etc £2,413.50
• any other losses that we should be aware of - Car only worth £3270 at point of sale due to mileage issue and accident damaged status.
• total amount of money which you would need to put you back into the position that you were in before you bought the vehicle - £9800 with vehicle returned to them or the sum of the repairs and lost value, being £8943.50

Edited September 4, 2020 by sallyblackburn

[sallyblackburn]

I don't want a refund. I want damages. Otherwise we end up on the fast track don't we.

[sallyblackburn]

I want to keep the car and claim for the loss of value plus the repairs. £8943.50. This would leave it as a legit small claim.

[sallyblackburn]

I was hoping to keep it simple and just sue Creation for the Damages. Trying to return it after 2 years opens a can of worms with the usage of 20k miles.

 

What do you think of these draft particulars?

 

MARSHALL DRAFT CREATION Particulars-of-claim-faulty-goods-and-credit-card.pdf

Edited September 4, 2020 by sallyblackburn

[sallyblackburn]

I really don't want to risk getting close to the small claims limit. I have a massive fear of costs. Thanks for the advice tho. I understand what you're saying. I also don't want to complicate things with 2 defendants, i just think it will be a meh, as the dealership are a nighmare to deal with. At least Creation are regulated.

[sallyblackburn]

I really don't want to risk getting close to the small claims limit. I have a massive fear of costs. Thanks for the advice tho. I understand what you're saying. I also don't want to complicate things with 2 defendants, i just think it will be a meh, as the dealership are a nighmare to deal with. At least Creation are regulated.

 

Also, On the day I will send counsel direct for £250 or so, which is why it is plead like i did. I get too anxious in court.

[sallyblackburn]

Thank you. I was quite sure that there was misrepresentation and a breach of the 2015 CRA as well as the 2008 CPUTR and the 2014 amendments, but after getting the reply from Creation I started to doubt myself and You have really helped me out. The dealers have certainly behaved recklessly, and if it wasn't the case that fraud cases are ineligible for the small claims track i would have plead fraud, but the bar is high and the costs are frighteneing to me.

 

One thing I have no knowledge of at all is the COBS stuff. What would you put in the LBA about that to the finance company please? I have made a donation to the site. Thanks so much x