Jump to content

  • Tweets

  • Posts

  • Our picks

    • Hermes lost parcel.. Read more at https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/422615-hermes-lost-parcel/
      • 49 replies
    • Oven repair. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/427690-oven-repair/&do=findComment&comment=5073391
      • 49 replies
    • I came across this discussion recently and just wanted to give my experience of A Shade Greener that may help others regarding their boiler finance agreement.
       
      We had a 10yr  finance contract for a boiler fitted July 2015.
       
      After a summer of discontent with ASG I discovered that if you have paid HALF the agreement or more you can legally return the boiler to them at no cost to yourself. I've just returned mine the feeling is liberating.
       
      It all started mid summer during lockdown when they refused to service our boiler because we didn't have a loft ladder or flooring installed despite the fact AS installed the boiler. and had previosuly serviced it without issue for 4yrs. After consulting with an independent installer I was informed that if this was the case then ASG had breached building regulations,  this was duly reported to Gas Safe to investigate and even then ASG refused to accept blame and repeatedly said it was my problem. Anyway Gas Safe found them in breach of building regs and a compromise was reached.
       
      A month later and ASG attended to service our boiler but in the process left the boiler unusuable as it kept losing pressure not to mention they had damaged the filling loop in the process which they said was my responsibilty not theres and would charge me to repair, so generous of them! Soon after reporting the fault I got a letter stating it was time we arranged a powerflush on our heating system which they make you do after 5 years even though there's nothing in the contract that states this. Coincidence?
       
      After a few heated exchanges with ASG (pardon the pun) I decided to pull the plug and cancel our agreement.
       
      The boiler was removed and replaced by a reputable installer,  and the old boiler was returned to ASG thus ending our contract with them. What's mad is I saved in excess of £1000 in the long run and got a new boiler with a brand new 12yr warranty. 
       
      You only have to look at TrustPilot to get an idea of what this company is like.
       
        • Thanks
      • 3 replies
    • Dazza a few months ago I discovered a good friend of mine who had ten debts with cards and catalogues which he was slavishly paying off at detriment to his own family quality of life, and I mean hardship, not just absence of second holidays or flat screen TV's.
       
      I wrote to all his creditors asking for supporting documents and not one could provide any material that would allow them to enforce the debt.
       
      As a result he stopped paying and they have been unable to do anything, one even admitted it was unenforceable.
       
      If circumstances have got to the point where you are finding it unmanageable you must ask yourself why you feel the need to pay.  I guarantee you that these companies have built bad debt into their business model and no one over there is losing any sleep over your debt to them!  They will see you as a victim and cash cow and they will be reluctant to discuss final offers, only ways to keep you paying with threats of court action or seizing your assets if you have any.
       
      They are not your friends and you owe them no loyalty or moral duty, that must remain only for yourself and your family.
       
      If it was me I would send them all a CCA request.   I would bet that not one will provide the correct response and you can quite legally stop paying them until such time as they do provide a response.   Even when they do you should check back here as they mostly send dodgy photo copies or generic rubbish that has no connection with your supposed debt.
       
      The money you are paying them should, as far as you are able, be put to a savings account for yourself and as a means of paying of one of these fleecers should they ever manage to get to to the point of a successful court judgement.  After six years they will not be able to start court action and that money will then become yours.
       
      They will of course pursue you for the funds and pass your file around various departments of their business and out to third parties.
       
      Your response is that you should treat it as a hobby.  I have numerous files of correspondence each faithfully organised showing the various letters from different DCA;s , solicitors etc with a mix of threats, inducements and offers.   It is like my stamp collection and I show it to anyone who is interested!
        • Thanks
        • Like

Bought a Clocked & damaged Car


Recommended Posts

Hello, I need help please.

 

I bought a used car last year from a main dealership.

I bought the car over the phone having read the description on autotrader and having spoken to the dealership.

The dealership then created a video for me, which described the car and showed the vehicle.

No issues were disclosed and the car was described as being in "Great Condition" in the advert and in "almost immaculate condition" in the video presentation.

 

I agreed over email to buy the car for £10,000 on condition that the car was "as described on the advert and on the calls and video"

 

I paid for the car by credit card and we then took a train 200 miles to pick the car up 2 weeks later.

We were meant to collect the car at 15:00 but the dealership moved it to 17:00 the day before collection.

This is important as it meant it was pitch black when we collected the car.

On collecting the car we had a look, but obviously couldn't see anything.

 

Over the next week or so I noticed the paint wasn't amazing and there was some badly sprayed parts.

I got a proper car inspection company to look at the car and they said it was accident damaged and needed £3000 in repairs, they also discovered that the mileage had gone backwards on 2 MOTs and therefore the car is clocked.

 

As such I had a car that is accident damaged, in need of £3000 in repairs and worth a lot less that I paid even after the repairs due to the mileage issue.

The mileage discrepancy reduces the value of the car by around £5000 as there is an assumption it has done 1-20k miles and not the 30k miles i paid for!

 

I wrote to the dealership and they denied any wrongdoing and offered to let me return it for £3000 less than I paid.

I obviously rejected this.

 

I then took the issue up with my card company who took 9 months to reject my section 75 claim because

"We have looked through the EXPERTS report and believe that this has no bearing on the case. 

 

You have stated previously that you did not check over or test drive the car before purchasing it as it was dark when you went to collect it. 

It is the responsibility of a customer to check goods before taking them away and to check they match the description. 

 

Unless the car was specifically advertised as not being in an accident and there is evidence to show that the dealership knew this and acted dishonestly, we do not believe that there is a valid claim under Section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974."

 

As such i am now stuck.

I thought I would have a claim as they clearly lied about the condition and I know that selling cars with a mileage discrepancy is against the CPUTR 2008.

 

Please can anyone help?

Do you think the FOS will help me?

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 142
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

Quick question, but from reading this, I get the impression that you have not had the body works carried out, is this correct?   if you have an estimate but not had the works carried out, th

eversheds are solicitors for hire but part of the Creation Group of Companies or their parents - just one desk nearer the bog..

Creation have a appointed the city law firm Eversheds to defend the section 75 car claim. They claim that they have filed an AoS stating that they intend to defend in full. Will update when the defenc

Posted Images

First of all, it's complete nonsense that you have a legal responsibility to check the car over. Which credit card issuer has given you this decision?

I don't know how far you want me to comment on the recklessness of buying a £10,000 motorcar over the telephone – but apart from that, on the basis of what you say, the rights are completely on your side and I'm quite amazed at the decision which you have apparently received from the issuer.

You can certainly begin by going to the financial ombudsman service. It's great shame that you have left it so long.

Your total losses £10,000? Or are there more?

 

Also you haven't told us the name of the dealer

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

The card company is cr*ati*n. I calculated the total loss at the cost to repair it plus the loss of value even after the repairs, which is around £8,000.

 

I took this all to the company within a month of finding the issue but they fobbed me off and then finally offered me a 6k refund after 5 months.

 

I then took it to the card company who took 9 months to give me a final decision (final decision 3 days ago giving me 6 months to go to FOS).

 

I know i should have gone to look, but it is a massive manufacturers dealership and with the photos and the video and the emails I have, I felt safe as the dealer was M*er*edes!

Link to post
Share on other sites

It would be helpful if you would avoid scattering asterisks in the middle of the names you are giving us.

I understand that the credit card company is probably Creation https://www.creation.co.uk/ but so far as the dealer is concerned, Mercedes is the maker of vehicles and not the name of the dealer.

Please will you tell us the name of the dealer and maybe link us to their website.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm trying to understand your calculations of your losses.

I don't really understand why you are factoring in the cost of repairs when clearly the car should be returned and you should have a full refund.

So I understand that you pay £10,000 for the vehicle. Have there been any other expenses which have been reasonably incurred while you have been dealing with this problem?

Also, I'm very intrigued by the letter you have received from Creation. Please will you scan it and put it up in PDF format so that we can all have a look at it and probably have a laugh.

I'd also be interested to see the letter of complaints which you sent them which has produced this extraordinary response.

Link to post
Share on other sites

You haven't addressed the question as to the value of your actual losses.

However, the letter which creation have sent you denying any liability is nonsense. When you enter into a contract, you are entitled to rely on the description given by the dealer – and the description forms the basis of the contract.
In fact I understand that you paid the money before you even went to see the car – so there was clearly a contract in existence before you had any opportunity to see the car – not that that is particularly relevant anyway.

I don't know who this Creation Financial outfit are, but they are obviously simply in the business of declining liability and they are treating you most unfairly.

I would suggest that when this is over you cancel your credit card with them and also I would suggest that you put up reviews on trust pilot et cetera about them. These kind of people don't like that kind of publicity. Make sure you type out their name fully without ridiculous*the middle all the time which only serves to protect them and to endanger other victims.

Your own letter to creation financial is unnecessarily verbose. The fact is very simply that you rely on the dealer's description of the vehicle and it failed to conform to its description. This was in breach of their obligations under the consumer rights act. Additionally, there is compelling evidence that the car has been clocked which adds to the breach of contract and I would certainly expect that a dealer with considerable experience would have a duty to ascertain that the mileage was correct in order to protect their customers.

I don't think you helped yourself by making such a complicated letter – you simply want a refund because the car is not of satisfactory quality and does not conform to its description.

I suggest that you begin a complaint to the FOS. The FOS are generally speaking extremely half-hearted and limp wristed about anything – but on this occasion, it might be a good way to go particularly as I sense that your losses are in excess of £10,000 which puts you above the small claims limit in case you have to start suing. However we will help you if necessary.

I suggest that you put together a letter of complaint to the FOS and put it up here on this forum before you send it off to them.

I suggest also that you send creation financial an SAR.

I would also suggest that you send creation financial a letter objecting to their findings – using the basic which I have set out above. Send the SAR anyway – but post up a draft letter of complaint to creation financial on this forum before you post off.
 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you for the reply. Given that i have had the vehicle 18 months I didn''t think it would be a refund situation, but a damages/ partial refund one. I think i must be confused. I have already asked for a SRA from Creation.

 

I have just checked Trustpilot and it's clear they do not care what people think, the reviews are terrible, I am really shocked.https://uk.trustpilot.com/review/www.creation.co.uk

 

Is the following ok for Creation?

 

Sirs,

 

Thank you for your reply.

I wish to make a formal  complaint that you have made a decision that is not fair and ignores the law.

 

The 2015 Consumer Rights Act makes it clear that the trader has a duty to describe the goods accurately and it is simply not true that the consumer has a duty to inspect the good as stated in your email.

 

The DEKRA report is very clear that the vehicle is accident damaged, and has been poorly repaired and the MOT data shows 2 instances where the mileage was recorded having gone backwards.

 

The vehicle was not as described and there has been a clear breach of contract by the seller.

 

Faithfully

 

 

X

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Do you mean that you have already asked for an SAR from Creation? When did you ask for it?

I think you're quite wrong about getting damages. You still haven't told us about any of the losses – and I have an impression that you are trying to avoid this question – but in principle, you should be going for a full refund. You raised the issues very shortly after purchasing it and you have been led around by the nose since then. I think that you should consider your position at the point that you first raised the issues with the dealer.

 

Quote

Dear Sir/Mdm

 

Thank you for your reply dated X X X.
As you are aware, under the rules contained in the FCA handbook, you have a duty to treat me fairly and in the event that you do not, I have a right of action against you in the County Court.

You are quite wrong that there is a duty on a customer to inspect the vehicle before they purchase it.
The rights contained in the consumer rights entitled me to rely on the description made by the dealer and also to be confident that I'm purchasing a vehicle or any other item which is in a satisfactory condition and which will remain in a satisfactory condition for a reasonable period of time.

It is the dealer who has a legal obligation to describe the vehicle accurately – and the intention of the dealer or their state of knowledge of the time is irrelevant – and as a professional company holding themselves out as having a professional level of expertise, they have a duty to ensure that all the claims that they make the vehicle are true.

Clearly they are in breach of their contractual obligations because the claims which they made in respect of the vehicle were not true – and it is clear from your response to me that you broadly accept that because you simply say that the only problem is that I did not inspect the vehicle.

Also, although it is irrelevant, I paid for the vehicle when I agreed to purchase it over the telephone. That means that a binding contract was in place before I travel to collect the vehicle and so even if it was relevant, there was no opportunity to inspect the vehicle until after the contract was made. As I have said, this is not relevant – because under the 2015 Act the vehicle must conform with the claims and description made in respect of it by the dealer.

You have sent me a final response giving me six months to complain to the FOS – and I fully intend to do that. However, I'm giving you a final opportunity to review your decision and to refund me the purchase price of the vehicle.
Once again I would remind you that you have a duty to treat me fairly and to communicate with me fairly – and you have not done so.

If you obliged me to go to the FOS – then I fully expect that the FOS will find in my favour and that they will point out that you have failed in your legal duty under the Consumer Credit Act. Once I have that decision from the FOS then I shall be proceeding against you under the COBS rules in the FCA handbook in order to obtain a county court judgement which I shall then pass to the FCA.

Please respond within 10 days or else I shall begin the complaint to the FOS.
 

Faithfully

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I asked for the SAR last week on the day they sent the email denying the s.75 claim.

 

The losses are the 2,413.50 that it will cost to put the accident damage right plus the loss of value due to the mileage and accident history. Even once repaired the car is only worth half of the sale price as on a Mercedes mileage is everything I've estimated the total losses of £8943.50.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I have already said that you should be looking at reimbursement of all of your losses.

This means, how much have you spent so far?

The purchase price of the car
any other losses which you incurred in respect of the vehicle?

In other words, if the vehicle was returned the dealers – which I see as the only sensible outcome – how much money which you expect to be refunded in order to put yourself in a zero position.

Link to post
Share on other sites

The purchase price of £9800 plus the Dekra report, so just under £10k. Won't there be a charge for using the car for 18 months?

 

I genuinely thought that geting it repaired and claiming for the loss of value was my only option. Sorry for any confusion!

Link to post
Share on other sites

There could be a reduction for the use you have had from the vehicle. That would certainly be the normal applicable principle but as I understand from you that you raise the issues very shortly after you purchased it and since then they have led you around by the nose (although you seem to have been fairly complicit in this), I think there is a good argument for saying that they have created the delay and therefore they must be responsible for it.

In any event, I would let them raise the issue in court.

Also, you travel 200 miles to collect the vehicle and drove it back. How much did that cost you?

Link to post
Share on other sites

It was £20 each for the single tickets, but my mums grave is there so that was a reason we went, to see family etc and we went out in sussex with a friend on the way home, it was a planned jolly to be honest. The fuel back was given to us for free by the dealers so i am happy not to push it over 10K.

 

I see your point about the decuction for use in light of the complaint being made early. Thank you. I have sent your edited email to Creation now.

 

Out of interest, would you sue Marshal or Creation, or both if it comes to it?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Okay then you have two courses of action in my view.

You can either make your complaint to the FOS – which is risk-free but which may take quite a long time because in addition to being limp wristed, the FOS moves very slowly with most things. The outcome is uncertain and I can certainly imagine that the FOS will start recommending an apportionment based on the amount of time that you have had the car – meaning a deduction for the amount of use you have enjoyed from it. I have already explained to you why I don't think that this should be an applicable principle in your case.
You wouldn't have to accept the FOS decision and there may be aspects of their decision which you could use in litigation – for instance if they found that creation financial were wrong in their decision and the things that they said.

The second thing you could do would be to begin an immediate legal action in the County Court against the dealer for their breach of contract – and in that event, I would also consider joining Creation Financial as a second defendant simply to confuse the issue and to cause division between them and the dealer.

I suppose there is just a remote possibility that a judge might say that there should be a reduction for the amount of time that you have been using the vehicle – but I think that your position that you tried right from the outset to return the vehicle and you are prevented from doing so by the dealer and also by the credit card issuer is very powerful and I don't really see a reduction being made.
How many miles do you think that you have done with the vehicle since you tried to raise the issue with the dealer?

If you did bring a legal action then I can scarcely imagine that it would get to court and I expect that creation financial would pay you out and then set about dealing with the dealer directly.

It is almost inconceivable that you would lose the legal action – but if you did, then you would lose your claim fee, a hearing fee and of course you would be left with the car. However your chances of success in the County Court are much higher than with the FOS. I expect that with the FOS you would succeed but I think there is a real risk of a reduction or some rather reduced recommendation.

In principle you could also claim for interest at 8% on the money that you spent. However, this risks raising the money that you would be claiming to something over the small claims limit – and so that is probably not worth the risk.

If you want to take legal action then we will help you draft the papers. It's very simple but you need to know the steps in advance and you should read around this forum about how to bring a small claim in the County Court

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the advice.

Would you ever consider bringing the claim against Creation and not the dealer.

This would be allowed under s.75 and would have the effect of leaving the defendant as someone who is going to get their money back from a third party (The dealer) if they lose?

 

The care has done approx 20k miles BTW so 50% more than when bought, if you believe the oddometer (which nobody does)

Link to post
Share on other sites

I would bring the action against both of them.

Are you saying that since you bought the car you've done 20,000 miles on it? 

 

That is certainly a substantial amount of mileage and there might be a better case for requiring a reduction on the purchase price. Despite that, it still seems to me that you have got a tainted vehicle which is been subject to an accident and which has been tampered with in terms of its mileage and so I see absolutely no basis for you wishing to keep it.

What people will ask is why you carried on using the vehicle. I understand course that you may not have had another one – but the usual principle would be that as soon as you realise that there is this kind of problem, you would take the vehicle off the road and make alternative arrangements – such as purchasing an alternative vehicle. Of course the important thing is that they have been aware of the issue right from the beginning and it is they who have caused the delay. This is your strong point.

Given that you have put 20,000 miles on it, I'm absolutely certain that the FOS will make a reduced recommendation or if the court is likely to be rather tougher in this regard.

Also, given the rather lamentable assessment of your legal position by creation financial, I think that they would rather that there denial did not come to light and so therefore they might think that discretion favours giving you an full refund or at least only with the minimal reduction

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, I've done around 20k miles. I had no other money to buy a different car and I had been told that it was a damages case and not a refund case by my friend who i thought knew about these things!

 

My thoughts about just suing the bank were to keep it simple and also to be able to sue for the breach of COBS easily in the same particulars?  Also Creation could always add the dealer as a defendant couldn't they?

 

Thanks for all the help. I will keep you informed.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't suppose you saved the advert from Autotrader did you?

 

Have you still got the "sales" demo video?  (Or was it web-based and no longer any access).

 

Not sure if it's been asked and I've missed it, can you put up a suitably redacted copy of your engineer's(?) report?  (I think it needs to be in pdf format in a single document, but somebody else here will advise I'm sure).  Presumably it's what you submitted to your card company.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I've got copies of both the ad and the video.

the video is still online but I don't want to share it as it has my name on it.

I could send you a link?

can i message you?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Best not to send me a link - the site rightly prefers questions and advice to be transparent on the forum.  See what BankFodder advises.

 

I don't see any problems in you putting a link etc up here to the original advert though.  See if BF or one of the other members of the site team can advise.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry I already sent it you but it clearly shows names and the reg of the vehicle which i am not comfortable sharing publicly and i'm not tech savvy enough to blank out, sorry

Link to post
Share on other sites

That's OK - I won't look at it because of the concerns you raise (and because I'm not a member of the site team).  And because it's best for everything to be conducted openly.

 

BankFodder is an official member of the site team.  I'm sure it would be in good hands if you sent it to him (or her), or they may know how to anonymise it.

 

See what they think.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • dx100uk changed the title to Bought a Clocked & damaged Car

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    No registered users viewing this page.


  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...