Resignation from NHS

[Manxman in exile]

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I'm a retired NHS manager.  I don't see how they can unilaterally extend your notice period.  So long as you have given your contractual notice period, then your last day of "employment" is when you decide it is.  (Whether that's a day you are actually at work or whether you are on leave is another matter).

 

Also, obviously, you don't "have" to take your accrued annual leave before your termination date - and you obviously can't if your manager won't let you take the leave!

 

What I think should happen is that they should pay you for any leave you have not taken.  Whether there are any circumstances in which they do not need to do that, I do not know.  See what others here say.

 

If I were you, I'd demand more help from my union.  Also seek advice from CAB and ACAS.  Assuming you have got your notice period dates right, go back to your manager and HR and tell them that your last day of employment is such and such, and that you expect to take off any time owing to you before then so your last working day will be so many days earlier.  Tell HR that if they won't let you take the leave and if they won't pay you for it, you'll sue them through small claims court.

 

Whatever happens, they can't extend your leave date, assuming you've got your dates right.

 

EDIT:  I see I've cross-posted with Emmzi - listen to what they say - they know what they're talking about - unlike me!

Edited August 6, 2020 by Manxman in exile

[Manxman in exile]

OK.  You don't actually say there's an overlap - you just ask what would happen if you did not turn up for the last week.

 

So, assuming you have submitted your resignation with the correct notice period as per your contract of employment and assuming that there is no overlap of employment, do as I suggested before.

 

Contact your manager and HR (do it in writing and/or by email); tell them that you have submitted your notice of resignation as per the T&Cs of your contract of employment and that your last day of employment will be xx/yy/zz; tell them that you understand that you are owed so many days leave and that if your manager will not allow you to take that leave you are legally entitled to be paid for it; tell them that if you are not allowed to take the leave and they do not pay you for it, you will have no alternative but to sue them through the small claims court to recover the money legally owed to you.  I would also copy into this correspondence your manager's manager and the Director of HR (or whichever board director is responsible for HR).  You could also copy in the trust's "Company Secretary" (check who this is on the Executive Board or executive Team section of your trust's website) they will be very unhappy if the trust is sued for non-payment of holiday pay.

 

If I were you I personally would be reluctant to not turn up for the last week* - unless they grant you leave for that week.  If they won't let you take leave that week, I'd turn up for work - and make sure everybody knows you shouldn't be there, including any senior managers you happen to "bump" into.  It's only a week.

 

It will take you five minutes to draft the letter/email I suggest, and I'd be amazed if they didn't do what you want straight away.  If they don't give you leave, they should pay you for it.  If they don't pay you for the untaken leave, sue them for the money.  It's easy.  I bet that as soon as you send a letter before claim to the trust "company Secretary", the trust will pay up straight away - it will be too embarrassing for them to defend it.  Your manager and any HR people involved in this will get a bo77ocking too.

 

*Of course, if you are saying you are meant to start your new job before your notice actually expires (ie there is an overlap) that's a slightly different situation...  But you didn't say that in your opening post...

[Manxman in exile]

8 minutes ago, Ethel Street said:

 

OP added that (rather important!) information in post #3 - "I have an overlap of 3 days where I must start at the new job but my manager here refuses to give me annual leave for those days. "

 

Pity they didn't say that in the opening post!  It is, as you say, rather important...

 

OP - ask your new employer if you can start 3 days late.  If you don't want to ask or they won't let you, you'll have to decide what to do yourself IF your current employee won't allow you to take your last week of employment as leave.

 

How on earth have you allowed yourself to get in this situation?  didn't you tell your prospective new employer that you had to give your current employer XX weeks notice so you would not be able to start your new job before ww/yy/zz?

 

This is looking like a mess of your own making rather than just an awkward manager...

Edited August 7, 2020 by Manxman in exile

[Manxman in exile]

I'm going out for the evening now, will be back later. 

 

Have they actually said you can't have the time off?  Any leave time left that you haven't been able to take they should pay you for.  They can't extend your notice unless you agree.

 

See what others say.  You've submitted your notice  - hold fire on other letters for now.

[Manxman in exile]

If you get somebody to cover for you on those last three days, are you saying you are OK?  ie you don't need to go to work in your old job and you can start the new one?  So that gives you what you want - yes?

 

If you can't get somebody to cover for you, you've got two potential courses of action - which may or may not be mutually exclusive.  First, ask if you can move your termination date forward by three days.  Obviously you won't get paid for those three days and whether your current trust will agree to this depends on what sort of relationship you have with your manager and how much they will need you to work those three days - or how easy you will be to replace.  If they say OK - you win.

 

Second, you don't turn up for work on those three days.  You will then technically be in breach of contract and in theory the trust could sue you for any financial loss they suffer as a result.  This would be the cost of employing somebody to replace you for those three days.  Will they need to replace you?  I suspect they would not bother to sue you, but nobody can guarantee they won't.  And what if you want a reference from them in future?  If you've already asked to bring your leave date forward, and they've refused, they may rightly conclude that you are taking the pi$$ if you don't turn up on those days, and they won't like it - or rather they won't like you...

 

Or, as I said before, get your new start date put back three days.

 

The thing is, your current employer can't extend your notice period unless you agree.  If they won't allow you to take leave owing to you during that notice period, they should pay you for it.  Whether you should write to them as I suggested earlier is more complicated because the situation is much less clear cut than you originally outlined.  (You had implied that they had already refused your request to take leave owing to you during your notice period and that you would have to extend your notice period to allow you to take that leave.  That isn't quite the position, is it?  And they haven't actually said they won't pay you for any leave you don't take, have they?)

 

Two other things: first, are you changing employer within the NHS?  If you are, it's a possibility that questions may be asked if you are in the pension scheme and you have two periods of full-time employment that overlap.

 

Second, your manager's email refers to "your last working day".  This is a little ambiguous and can cause a lot of confusion in the NHS.  You may wish to check whether they mean it is the last day of your employment (ie including any leave you are taking) or is it the last day you are actually present working.  Do you see the difference?  Managers often get hopelessly confused by this without HR guidance.  (And HR often get it wrong).

 

It's a pity you can't or won't seek union guidance if you are a member - that's what you pay for.