OBS PCN CCJ/Judgement - set aside now rehearing

[FTMDave]

As you say that getting rid of the CCJ is your priority, then set aside is the way to go.  There is a simple single sheet of A4 to fill in and, unfortunately, £255 to pay.

 

Set asides are almost always given.  There is a 15/20-minute hearing, which will probably be done on the phone given the emergency.  The judge will want you to briefly explain

   - (a) why you didn't defend at the time, and you have probably the best reason possible just now, and

   - (b) that you have a chance of defending the action in court.  There would be little point granting a set aside if you were bound to lose.  This is more problematic as unfortunately the correspondence has been binned so we don't know if the PPC ballsed up their paperwork (they nearly always do).  That's where the SARs come in.  In any case, there are already three reasons.  OBS have lazily mentioned driver or keeper and they are NOT the same thing.  They have also made up over £100 of fictitious charges.  Their signage was pants.  

[FTMDave]

If you look through the list of threads in this part of the forum, you'll see "Backdoor CCJ" appears frequently.  It's always someone in your position who moved and never got the court papers.  I can't remember even one of those cases for a single ticket like yours where bailiffs got involved.  Not one.  The money involved is too small, as dx says, £600 is the magic figure.  So don't worry.  If you want to be absolutely sure, keep your doors locked and any vehicle parked away from your home - but really there is no need to go to these lengths. 

 

A set aside should be simple to obtain (post 11).  If time is of the essence you could start the process now, but if you wait for the result of the SARs you could end up with more ammo. 

 

A set aside by consent would be where OBS consent to your application, but that would be a very dangerous road to go down.  We had a case recently where someone paid the PPC the amount of the CCJ - and didn't get the set aside.  You're dealing with conmen after all.      

Edited May 31, 2020 by FTMDave

[FTMDave]

Sorry, never replied to your questions in post 15.  As far as I know, the SAR requests are just the same standard request. 

 

"I am prepared to pay for the Set Aside if it will help this be resolved, from what I understand if I win I get the costs back anyway".

 

Not so sure about costs.  Can anyone answer this?

[FTMDave]

Aside from the fact that £255 is less than £417, if you did as they asked the court would consider it debt cleansing as Andy said and you wouldn't get the set aside.  We had someone conned in that way here recently. 

 

Either go for the set aside yourself immediately.

 

Or if you want to be absolutely sure of having a cast-iron case and are not in a hurry, do if after waiting for the SARs.  Depends on your priorities.

 

Courts hardly ever refuse set aside applications, and you have excellent reasons for requesting yours.

 

 

[FTMDave]

DCBL are bailiffs, and like "debtors" to know this in the hope we will wet ourselves.

 

However, in this case they are not acting as bailiffs but just as rent-a-threats writing silly letters, so just to cover themselves write on the back of their letters that there is no bailiff action.  

 

Yes, the site accepts images, if you click on upload a simple guide will tell you how to redact your personal details and upload the documents as a PDF.

 

The point of the SARs was just as a belt & braces approach to make sure you had as much info. as possible before going for the set aside.  When you have time, please post up what you propose to write on the set aside application. 

Edited July 2, 2020 by FTMDave

[FTMDave]

About 95% of the letters we see on the forums that demand money and threaten dire consequences have no basis in law but unfortunately can scare those who don't know the law into coughing up money they don't owe.

 

The solution is to learn the law, bit by bit, and empower yourself into understanding what demands are valid and which aren't. 

 

Anyone can write letters to anyone demanding money.  I could demand you pay me £500 for the advice here because, although CAG is free, my football team's ground is bigger than Ericsbrother's football team's ground so that doesn't apply to me.  Of course my demand would be absurd and would be laughed out of court, but no more absurd than a lot of the empty threats from paper tigers that we see here.

 

The only person who can decide that a debt exists and enforce payment is a judge.  If at this point you were to give up (not suggesting that of course!) you would owe £317, what the judge decided.  Not a penny more or less.  Certainly not a grand.

 

DCBL are just trying it on.  It's not even their debt!  They have no powers to do anything whatsoever.

[FTMDave]

You have a superb chance of getting a set aside.  They are hardly ever refused.  If you look at some of the other "Backdoor CCJ" threads here, you'll see everyone who applied for a set aside, got it.

 

That's what you have to go for now.  Post up a draft of what you propose to write on the application form to the court.  That will have to include

   1.  the reason you didn't originally defend the claim, and

   2.  a few bullet points explaining how you would defend the claim now.

[FTMDave]

I've had to delete all the pages you posted.  CAG's policy is for uploads to be in PDF only (as explained in the upload guide) so only registered Caggers can see them - best to keep the OPC creeps guessing.

 

I have however converted to PDF (again, as explained in the upload guide).  I hope they're in the right order but, hey, that's the best I can do.

OPC_SAR_response.pdf

Edited July 3, 2020 by FTMDave

[FTMDave]

I've had a look at the SAR and indeed reread your thread from the start.  I don't think the SAR shows they've done anything particularly wrong - but hey, it was free and gave them some work to do!

 

Your reason for not receiving the court papers is easy.

 

Your reason(s) for intending to defend is that no contract was formed due to insufficient signage and OBS have abused the court procedure by adding additional costs to try to circumvent the small claims limits.

 

I think these are the reasons we can be reasonably sure of.

 

Please post up a draft of what your propose to send.  Then let EB have a look tomorrow as he has a lot of experience with set asides.

 

 

[FTMDave]

You're right about the photos but that's not a matter for now.  Unfortunately they didn't have to prove it as they won by default.

 

When you win the set aside, if OBS are stupid enough to want a rematch then at that point you can deal with the matter of the photos not existing or existing but not being in the SAR.

 

The aim now is to get a set aside and get rid of the CCJ.  I take your point about £255 not being cheap, that's why I suggested waiting for EB's opinion tomorrow as he has a lot of experience with set asides, with recent changes to the relevant court procedure, and being in court himself for set asides. 

[FTMDave]

I've had a look at some of the other backdoor CCJ threads, but haven't found an example N244.

 

However, in a sense that's a good thing, write your own draft based on post 98.  It doesn't have to be in legalese,  just a quick summary of your position in normal English.

 

One of the Site Team could do it for you, but we're normally very reluctant to do so because it will be you (not us) in front of the judge (or given COVID, probably on the phone to the judge) so it's important that you understand and are confident with your arguments.

 

Wait for EB to comment on the draft tomorrow, on those other threads I see he goes on about a Supreme Court judgement re set asides and he's been in court himself in a similar situation several times. 

 

I don't know about suing for the £255, maybe dx or EB will know more. 

 

Whatever you do, there will be an element of risk due to mistakes (mistakes are no problem, been there done that, but learn for the next time).  It's not a good idea to throw away documentation when you're in a legal dispute with someone, and you should always tell them of a change of address.  Plus a case should have been built at the time against these charlatans, such as taking photos of their rubbish signs.

 

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but your personal circumstances are irrelevant to the court.  You've "defied" a court order - tough.  Of course we know you haven't really defied a court order as your N244 will show, and will be the start of the fightback.

[FTMDave]

17 hours ago, dx100uk said:

i do not believe the claimant had a valid and paid for contract covering the year of the offence with the land owner or their agents.

 

i do not believe the Claimant ANPR System had the relevant council planning permission to be used or erected on poles at the site.

 

i do not believe the Claimant signs at the site neither had the required council planning permission nor suitably conveyed the legal terms of any contract the driver at the time of parking could ever be able to agree to by reading them.

 

i claim the cost of my set aside fee from the claimant should i be successful.

 

 

 

Above the excellent paragraphs that dx has posted up, add

 

"I did not receive court papers and was therefore unable to defend the claim because from xxxxx to xxxxx I was away from my address due to the recent lockdown.  I was staying with my elderly mother at xxxxx".

[FTMDave]

Well done on your victory

 

Goodbye CCJ!  Plus you got your £255 back.  Couldn't have gone better.

 

All the superb work you've already done will be the basis for your defence - no  planning permission so no contract formed, made-up extra fees, etc.