SPML/LMC anyone claimed for mis selling and unfair charges?

[Crapstone]

Hi all

 

Just looking for some info...can anyone advise how we get a suspended repo order, finished,set aside, notice of discontinuance, which court form is it??

As of today i have paid the outstanding arrears balance, and have a cancelled eviction which was due to take place , mid january with this bunch of legalised loan sharks. When i say we have no arrears, i will see what next week holds, after much to'ing and fro'ing on the phone the figure they gave in a letter at the begining of december was higher than the one given on the phone several times which was quoted as the figure upto 31st dec, when i say a cancelled eviction they rang the solicitor today...who are they trying to kid, my solicitor closed xmas eve and wont reopen until jan 4th. So i will ring the court and balliff myself on tuesday to ensure they are aware of cancelled eviction!!

As a long suffering vet on the capstone forum, i know alot of the stunts these morons pull, and have gathered some interesting facts, and am currently fighting these charges through the fos, all i will say at the moment is capstone have shot themselves in the feet a few times recently, i still maintain they have failed to follow pre action protocol on several points, this is even better when they have contradicted themselves in black and white on numerous occassions. They have not been able to give me a true, accurate figure to settle on because, they dont know what the interst on arrears figure is, which may or may not be added to the acct in jan, they are not sure if the litigation fee is going to be added or not.

In conclusion of the above as of 31st dec my arrears are clear, as of 4th jan, i will ring again and ask what my balance is...

 

All the best to everyone on here for 2011, i hope we can all keep putting the pressure on the relevant powers, and bring this joke of a company to its knees, and the sooner the better in mho.

 

N244 will do it but I'd suggest you hold it against them to withdraw the order and see what they have to say first. If nothing else the next time you SAR them it wil make for more amusing reading. Get them to send you everything they have regarding your calls and to back anything they have said up in writing. Did you get their names? If you don't already have one then get a cheap printer/fax and always get THEM to fax anything over straight away such as when they say they have cancelled this or that. You can use email but when it comes to copies of letters they claim to have sent to bailiffs the courts..fax is better IMO.

 

I'm glad you're at last getting somewhere and have already been warned of their little tricks and failures on a grand scale. They just don't have a bloomin' clue on what they are supposed to be doing and it needs to stop. Give as good as you get and argue back with the beggars as they don't seem to like that very much when they are caught out in B & W.

 

Happy New Year and let's hope this will break them once and for all.

 

xxx

[Crapstone]

Peoples, I thought I had posted here before, but can not see my post .. so here goes (apologies if this is duplicated )

 

I have for MANY years complained to SMPL / Capstone / who ever, that their letters and statements have been incorrect, but these complaints are just ignored, ( some have been sent by recorded)

 

Before Xmas, I received no less than 4 letters all stating differing balances and alledged arrears ( in reality, I think the arrears are an accummulation of their charges due to their errors )

 

I wrote a long letter high lighting these errors - afterall If they can not keep an accurate record of my mortgage who can ? In short I have lost faith in their ability to record and report accurately. I have today received another letter stating that I have not paid sufficient funds last month by some £ 736 . In fact I had not only paid last month, I had over paid as I do most months.

 

For several years I have over paid my mortgage, to be told the arrears are increasing ????

 

I have now had enough. I can not move my mortgage because of the incorrect reference/ comments from Capstone .. so what choice do I have but to take them on

 

Now, I understand that the Ombudsman has no teeth, so where do I go get this started ? is there a group action I can join, or am I better on my own ? is there a solicitor already briefed with the antics of these clowns ?

 

Your advice appreciated.

 

I'm lagging a bit as I'm struck with the dreaded flu and it's started to wear me down far more than Capstone ever will, so apologies in advance if anything I say isn't quite right or lacking in umph and enthusiasm.

 

Firstly request everything you can and SAR them, several times over if need be. Sit down, do the calculations and question everything. Add up all the charges they've put on your account. You can download programmes that allow you to work out the interest that should be charged but it's time consuming and you need all the info. to hand so it's not for everyone.

 

As you've said THEY are the ones that should be keeping accurate records but since my dealings with them from 2003 they have failed and are still failing. They can't get a statement right and the ones you think pass as perhaps being ok they then issue a notice to say they got the interest wrong AGAIN so they send you another statement that again makes no sense.

 

I spent over 2 years following them up with the Ombudsman and was party to a slanging match that SPML and Capstone felt picked upon and they considered their charges fair and that the Ombudsman was being biased. I won, they lost and had they to pay up and are still paying now through mistakes they continue to make.

 

Establish a contact with them for a complaint. Get as much information as you can and challenge them on every level, as you'll eventually prove they have lied to you at some point and have tried to conceal their mistakes. Get it all in writing and file it. It's not easy, it takes time to go through it all but it's bloomin' well worth it when you turn up a diamond and have it in B&W that they have really fluffed up.

[Crapstone]

Again a fax facility is a must, or at least it was to me when asking them to get documents over and for them to receive them. They'd deny receiving things sent to them and blame poor quality especially for insurance. Their machines must come from fortune cookies as they don't know their heads from their behinds.

[Crapstone]

I totaly agree sue.

 

Today for example..rang them to clarify account balance after clearing the arrears on 31/12/10, again to stop their repossession order, in a matter of a minute we were told that the account had a credit balance of over £1k, and then we were told we still had an arrears balance of £65.00. What is more this has accrued off their £115.00 litigation fee, that they have decided to add after several conversations stating that it had not been added for some reason, but they have decided to use the £50.00 surplus that was a payment that was for the arrears arrangement as per the court order, this was stated with the covering letter...now call it what you like, but i call it theft..stealing.....they should have returned the cheque and a letter advising they were adding the £115.oo to the account........ forwarding this info to the fos...

 

And so you should! Be sure to tell the Ombudsman that you want ALL and ANY payment, should you win ( I've no doubt you will !), be made direct to YOU and NOT to be used as payment against your account. Arsend' um really won't like that but explain that you already have the court order that you've stuck to and have suffered severe hardship/ stress because of the way your account has been conducted. Further more you could also state that your consumer/ lender relationship has irretrievably broken down and you have no faith that you will gain any benefit should they be allowed to use any compensation awarded to you against the disputed account.

 

It's just a thought or otherwise they will do the same as what they tried to do me and use the lot against the account and make it seem as they they are doing YOU a favour. It's then a real pain to get sorted out once they've done it and wastes more time having to go back to the FOS.

[Crapstone]

Thanks for the help Crapstone,i m just in the middle of getting this lot of to the Fos at the moment.

Hope you have fully recovered from your flu??

 

bo2

 

Not yet but I'm getting there and have an excuse to drink plenty of Irish coffees, so thanks for asking!

[Crapstone]

It's a long thread to follow but you're welcome advanced.

[Crapstone]

Put it all in writing and ask the same of them . Don't rely on phone calls!

[Crapstone]

I'm sure I sent mine to SPML as they are the named company but Capstone were the ones that replied . What we got was a lot of stuff headed as SPML and another lot under Capstone. The pile was impressive ..2 VERY large boxes and that was just the SAR. Ascenden have now taken over so they should be providing the same ..along with their bit they have to add. The SAR is the easy bit ..it's reading it all and finding out all their lies that takes it's toll. I'd go for SMPL as that's who your original contract would still be with unless they have told you otherwise.

[Crapstone]

Thanks Sue for posting that up

[Crapstone]

Copy and paste from any other posts you have to the link or just click on it and then type your experience.

[Crapstone]

I was accepted for the Mortgage Rescue Scheme & it was all completed & handed to the housing association. There was just one last thing for them to do before completing the process - they had to send a surveyor to inspect the house & list any repairs with estimated costs.

 

They did that & then told me their total estimated of costs exceeded their budget and therefore they would not be 'rescuing' me.

 

The thing is, they had completely fabricated the list of works and costings to be artificially high so as to give them an excuse to refuse to take on the house.

 

This is certainly immoral, certainly wrong, possibly fraudulent & very definitely very wicked & I now face imminent eviction.

 

I was wondering if anyone else was having problems like this with the Mortgage Rescue Scheme ?

 

I don't have any experience with them as I just wouldn't have fitted in with their very strict criteria.

 

I'm sorry to hear you are having such difficulties. The only thing I can suggest it getting a second opinion and asking for a copy of the surveyors report if they haven't already provided one.

 

Their list of works and costs may seem unreasonable but keep in mind that they will probably already have their own insured and approved contractors and can't just call Joe Bloggs that could do it cheaper. They also would have a duty, as a landlord, to make sure the house fulfills all the legal standards so what you may see as minor would be more of an issue to them even though you'd be happy to live with it.

 

They should get all that out of way before building peoples hopes up and wasting more time.

[Crapstone]

they push letters through my letterbox no doubt more fees and send silly letters over30 so far when i ring them up they dont help atall

 

Unless you can make more sense and take more care with what you write then I doubt anyone can help other than taking a guess. If you have trouble writing can you ask someone to help or put down each part in small pieces so we can see the whole picture? If you have a disability or a language problem them don't be afraid to say so. We don't bite, although Suetonius had been known to chew on a few ears in the past ;-)

 

The above is a bit late and out of context as I'm having problems updating on the thread!

Edited February 4, 2011 by Crapstone

[Crapstone]

my experience of the FOS in this case is very different to what you expect.

 

i've used the extract from Sue (thanks for that) and added some bits of my own using UTCCR, FSA rules and some stuff on securitisation.

 

it got passed to an adjudicator who said:

 

1. Mortgage arrears charges are NOT WITHIN THEIR REMIT TO INVESTIGATE, so he'll look at the overall treatment the bank handed out to me.

2. He considers arrears charges to be fair because they're set at a market rate.

3. The charges were considered fair by the test case last year (same principle).

4. He can't look at the mortgage being sold through the shadow banking system.

5. The bank treated me fairly because it's my fault i went into arrears.

6. He won't look at the legal fees or the solicitor's actions.

 

I didn't agree with his findings and asked him to explain:

 

1. How he can call the charges fair without having investigated their actual cost (with a breakdown), especially if he says they're outside his remit.

2. Where it says they can't look at arrears charges (he pointed me to the FSA Handbook).

3. When did the test case look at mortgage account T's and C's or investigate their fees.

4. The solicitor was instructed by the bank as an agent and thus the bank is responsible for their actions.

5. Why does the bank sign its letters with "as administrator". And for whom?

 

And that if the charges are outside their remit then he cannot refer to them in his decision, not a single point, since its not something he can look at and i don't want his personal opinion on these charges. That would make his decision a bit harder to write up since it all consists of arrears charges!

 

I didn't get any answers from him. He's now left the FOS and it will be allocated to another adjudicator.

 

Any advice for me and others taking arrears charges to the FOS and faced with this sort of response?

 

Market rate my ****!!!

 

They do have the REMIT to look at mortgage charges and fees as well as conduct. If they didn't then I wouldn't have got ALL mine back and if the rules had changed then they'd be quick to start applying them again on the account.

 

The FOS asked Capstone to provide a list of their charges and fees and to justify them. This was at Ombudsman stage as I had already gone through the rest and Capstone/ SPML appealed every time. I say appeal but if you'd have read it you would have laughed. More like a whinge that they are always being picked on and have the right to charge what they like without question and it's nothing to do with anyone else. They refused to supply the list of charges and so it was ruled that they the FOS had no choice but to say they were unjustified. They tried charging again shortly after and after a quick reminder they took all those charges off too and haven't applied anything since then.

 

I refused every offer from Capstone in settlement and sent everything (SAR's) and anything they sent inbetween to the FOS. I know you don't have to be a genius to do it and it can be done, or is designed to be done, by anyone. But it it does make it far more simple if you go through it yourself and highlight the points the want to make. It's not a court and they do like it in your own words but when it comes to sending in all the paperwork it's better to give them a clue on what they are supposed to be looking for.

 

Keep at it. I quoted the MCOB and your mortgage will still be under the remit of FOS. You just have to dig your feet in and argue every inch of the way.

[Crapstone]

My bank refused to supply me a list of all charges and the FOS has, so far, refused to ask them as it's not something they're looking at because of "outside our remit" (arrears charges).

 

But i'll carry on with the complaint at the FOS and would raise the same issues at court, were my lender to again enforce the suspended repossession order. They threatened to just before it got passed to the FOS but haven't said anything since.

 

They can't 'refuse'. You have a right to see all your account details.

[Crapstone]

Sorry, maybe i didn't say it right.

 

My bank won't send me a list of the arrears charges they've applied to the account, by extracting this information from the account.

 

They say i already have this in my yearly statement (i don't because that gives total interest, capital balance and payments made in the year). I asked the solicitor and they just sent me a statement, from which i can extract the charges amounts, but this was only for the last year.

 

My charges go back to around 2003 and have continued since. The account's been in and out of arrears many times with repossession and eviction hearings. Every time i've then paid a lump sum to save my house and arrears charges (and i think legal fees) have been part of this balance. There are around £5,000 of charges and much more, prob £8,000 in legal fees (some capitalised).

 

I haven't done a SAR request yet as i only want to know the arrears and legal fee amounts. I have a total fees per year statement from the solicitor in relation to how much fees they've charged and want to challenge these as well, since an agency rep was always sent with one instruction (to get the order for repossession/eviction) and could not discuss anything else.

 

The bank won't say why they sign their letters to me with "as administrator". Though i know it's because of it being securitised but i ask "administrator for whom".

 

You either get an SAR sent off or ask for a statement of affairs. The latter is usually used if you are in arrears, (it may have changed but someone will soon say if I'm wrong!) It's far better to pay the £10 for an SAR as you will need as much information as you can get hold of to challenge them. Ask for all the legal receipts too.

 

A lot of people seem to be scared to stir what is already muddy water that they are drowing in. I felt the same. Should I , shouldn't I? Am I going to make things worse for myself? Am I capable of putting the wording across without looking like a right idiot? Will I be able to understand what they write back? It couldn't have got any worse. I had nothing to lose and everything to gain.

[Crapstone]

Sent the email regarding charges from Suetonious to my adjudicatior on Friday.

 

Had the following response today:-

 

Thank you for your email. I have noted your comments which will be added to my file and taken into consideration when I am assessing your complaint.

I will be in touch in due course

this is one battle I will not give up on - it seems to me that the FOS are trying to avoid the issue, my question is why??????

 

It's a standard response and nothing to worry about.

[Crapstone]

The question I would like to ask is.Has anyone who has complained to the FOS about unfair arrears charges levied by capstone/acenden ever actually got a positive result and had these charges refunded.

As regards Stephens query,this seems to me to be the right question to ask why in the light of the gmac findings have this lot escaped any sort of censure whatsoever and are still ploughing on with impunity with fairy godmothers PWC majority shareholders?.The FOS seem to think by all accounts that their charges are reasonable according to several negative reported decisions despite the gmac findings whose charges were actually less!

Here posted and highlighted again and all apply to Acenden in bucket fulls.

 

2.3.

The firm breached Principle 6 during the Relevant Period in that it failed to pay due regard to the interests of its customers and treat them fairly. In particular, the following failings were identified in that GMAC:

(1)

failed to ensure that mortgage servicing staff had an adequate understanding of and implemented the requirement to treat customers fairly in handling its mortgage arrears and repossessions;

(2)

until late 2008, focussed on the collection of payment of arrears over a short period of time within fixed mandates, rather than always establishing a suitable arrangement based on the customer’s individual circumstances;

(3)

applied certain charges to a customer’s account that were unfair in that they did not accurately reflect the actual cost of administering an account in arrears;

(4)

had not arrived at a cost-based approach to the calculation of its arrears charges and therefore could not be sure that they were reasonable compared to the actual cost incurred;

(capstone that was actually stated to the Mail that they had no idea of how the figure was constructed!Northern Rock seemed to think a fair charge was £25 )

(5)

caused some letters to be sent to customers that were either factually inaccurate or did not contain sufficient information to give customers a clear and accurate statement of their mortgage account; and

(6)

sometimes issued proceedings for repossession before all alternatives to repossession had been considered and accordingly, did not always use litigation only as a last resort.

2.4.

The firm also breached MCOB 12.4.1R and 13.3.1R in relation to the facts described at paragraph 2.3 above.

2.5.

 

Yes I did, and with compensation. Mortgage from 2003. All refunded and although they tried to reinstate them shortly after, due to arrears, they were retracted. The Fos warned them they would take a dim view on any fees applied to the account. It took 2 years to get through it. The hardest part was sitting down and going through all the statements and letters and putting them across as part of the case. A calculator and a highlighting pen is a must!

 

That was after a suspended repossession order and the arrears were several K including all the charges. Ordered to pay back £50 on top of the mortgage payments by the court but they were charging £65 in fees as well as making it difficult to make payments. I argued that the court did not allow them to do that and the contractual terms had been changed via the court and their intention would not be that I was made to go into £15 per month in arrears despite sticking to the agreement.

 

The Fos looked at it and the major part was that Capstone would not provide a copy of their fees or justify them. The blatant lies they told and that were revealed in the SAR helped as well

Edited February 23, 2011 by Crapstone

[Crapstone]

The SAR took 40 days and I know we sent off two at least and not at the same time. Dialogue withe Capstone...at least 6 months or so to reach a final conclusion that they were talking s***e.

 

My OH tried and failed with the Fos....then I found out. I had no idea what was going on until a court date. No idea that he hadn't made any mortgage payments for months. Court sorted then the Fos. Not as easy as it seems as you have to spell it out to them and give them the key data to work on or it goes over their heads. It shouldn't but it does.

[Crapstone]

It's late...but I will get back to you on this tomorrow.

[Crapstone]

That's all Ok for BF to write but what does he actually know? That's Redstone. And I have no idea where he gets the thought that damages won't be offered from the Fos!

 

To tell people not to make a complaint..hmpphh..It's a free option and not all people can afford to waste the courts time without mediation as he may have done. The court option is always open every step of the way unless you accept a final decision. For further issues you still have other steps....you can take them to court if the Fos haven't looked at or addressed them.

 

To say it's 'completely clear' .......If it were that clear everyone would be getting a refund and not being dragged through the courts.

[Crapstone]

I think that the evidence that the FOS will only award 8% interest has been demonstrated many many times over the years. Despite the fact that the FOS site says that they calculate their awards in a way which is intended to ensure that the customer has not lost out all, this is very definitely not the case. FOS awards never seem to consider or take account of any ancillary damage your problems which might have been caused by the misconduct of the financial institution. I'm certainly not aware that the FO S have ever made an award calculated on the basis of restitutionary damages– or even contractual interest for that matter.

 

FOS decisions routinely take 12 months at least – and of course we hear lots of stories of cases still being considered as long as two years later. Once again, the overall impression is that the lender is happy to let the case go to the FOS and then at some point much later, to try and settle the matter with a payment including 8% interest. If people really want to avoid court action, then the FOS is the only way to go. There is no doubt that it is completely cheap and risk-free. On the other hand it prolongs the hassle and the distress and the not-knowing. As has been said many times elsewhere on this forum, the FOS is the preferred route of financial institutions and therefore it follows that the County Court route should be the preferred route of ordinary litigants.

 

Although we have never had a judgement yet which has ended up with an award restitution damages, this is not because such award has been refused – but rather because the litigant has eventually agreed to settle out of court and has accepted the statutory 8%. In all cases where this has happened, it has been well within 12 months and often less than six months – and during the bank charges revolution in 2006, these kinds of settlements were being achieved very often within three months. This kind of timescale is impossible with the FOS.

 

These FSA decisions – not only in respect of Redstone but also in respect of Deutschebank our brand-new decisions. They are extremely high level and extremely serious. I cannot imagine any financial institution putting up much resistance now to any claim for mortgage arrears charges. Despite this, I can certainly imagine that there will be an attempt – as we found with bank charges – to use tactics to where people out or to persuade people to accept reduced settlements. One of these tactics would be to require people to begin a complaint to the FOS. The FOS have themselves reported that they felt that their own process was being used simply as a hurdle to remedy, and they criticised the banks for that.

 

If anybody wants to go to the FOS then they should do and we look forward to hearing progress reports about how their complaints have gone. I'm afraid that I don't really expect that people will be very pleased – and as I have said, they will certainly not be offered restitution damages. Furthermore the FOS will not make any orders or recommendations as to the cleaning up of credit files and the FOS will certainly not get involved in compensating anyone for the improper loss of their homes or for distress caused by the imposition of unlawful charges all the registering of improper defaults or other negative entries on their credit files.

 

The only way to have any effect on financial institutions is to take them to court. If, in 2006 and 2007, bank charges claimants had merely bought their complaints to the ombudsman, the whole matter would never ever have peaked in the test case and the public consideration of the whole issue of the fair treatment of customers.

 

Firstly the Fos do award compensation. How you want that to be worked out is not for me to say but it is there. We are looking at several situations and not a one size fits all. You still have the options, and although they go unpublished, they do reach the court stage to settle.

 

Some people don't have the 'choice' as I've said before. The money, the time scales and the not knowing with the courts too. Some judges don't have a bloomin' clue even when presented with a run of the mill budget sheet, so for them to look a case and to trust in the them to make the right ruling?

 

I don't think you've been through the FOS, and I wouldn't expect you to have been. 2 years, yes it can take that long but you have a chance to get all your papers in order during that time. I got caught in amongst those encouraged to claim for pennies and that slowed the system down. They had as much right to claim as I had but it put pressure on the service that's understandable. It's no good getting angry or frustrated, these things happen!

 

An SAR takes 40 days alone and you may need more than one. I went through all this a few years ago and before joining CAG. I feel let down by the attitude shown by people that probably haven't even used the service to its full extent but still slate it.

 

To make a court claim you need to work out what is you are claiming for and with the confusing and false statements sent out by Capstone it's awkward to say the least. You have to be an instant accountant and paralegal to boot.

 

On the contrary, my lender was not pleased at all that I used the FOS. And if you care to read the background on the company you'll see that they are eager to gain possession as soon as possible.

 

My point is that I had a good experience with the FOS and didn't do it for reward. I made mistakes too and I admit that and all was asked for is fairness. Remind me again of the win with the banks? Remind me how much money people have lost chasing the court route for charges? These are homes and houses remember. People that want nothing more than just to keep a roof over their head and probably don't care a hoot about compensation or even know about the interest rate . That can come later. Cleaning your credit file would be one of the last things thought about and you can do that easily yourself with no need to inform the FOS.

 

Although I respect your views I can't agree with you at this point.

[Crapstone]

I don't think I have one that tells the whole story all the way through on here as I'd already gone through it all before I found the threads on this site regarding SPML and Capstone.

 

That's a good idea though and if I can dig out all the paperwork I could probably scan up some letters showing how the case was dealt with if you think that would be of help to anyone.