Employer claiming you didn’t work required number of shifts 4 years ago

[Manxman in exile]

You are a Key Worker.  Do you happen to be a public sector employee?  eg NHS or local authority?

[Manxman in exile]

OK - You work for a Local Authority.  Are you in a union?  If yes, ask their advice.  If your situation is too complex for local reps, insist on speaking to someone from their regional office.  (I'm a former NHS manager and found myself in a really difficult employment position.  My local reps were out of their depth, but one of the regional officers really knew their stuff and sorted it out for me).

 

Each Local Authority administers its own pension scheme (unlike, for instance, the NHS).  You need to find out how to contact the people* who administer the scheme (ask your union, or ask colleagues or ask your payroll department - you should also be receiving an annual pension report which should contain contact details) and explain to them what has happened and ask how it may affect your pension.  I'd speak to them on the 'phone initially as I always find that easier as a first point of contact**.

 

You do need to get this sorted as it may impact your pension.

 

*Public sector pension schemes are quite specialised.  The people who manage your scheme will almost certainly be much more knowledgeable about how it works than anybody who is not involved daily.

 

**Make sure you ask for any advice you are given to be put in writing.  (Bankfodder will also tell you to record it, but you may not be able to do that).  The only thing I'd warn you about is that if your LA scheme is anything like the NHS pension scheme, then you really do need to understand how the rules work.  It can be a real minefield - I've known people be wrongly advised about their NHS pension with little comeback.  You need to get it right first time and avoid disputes post-retirement.  Support from your union would be really helpful at this time.

 

As I think honeybee has asked, you've had pension quotes from your scheme?

[Manxman in exile]

1 hour ago, Olihar said:

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Theyve agreed early retirement and I’ve got 4 weeks left at work 

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But you've had a quote from your pension scheme as to how much you'll actually get?  (I'm presuming if you go early there's a reduction to take account of the fact it'll be payable for longer).

 

[EDIT:  Sorry - you also talk about changes of contract and changes in T&Cs being imposed which is a bit unusual in a LA.  Have you been subject to some sort of TUPE transfer at some stage?  You are employed by a local authority and not by a third party providing services to a LA?]

Edited May 16, 2020 by Manxman in exile

[Manxman in exile]

Apologies for belabouring this point - you say your manager has agreed to you retiring early, but your employer has formally agreed too?  Yes?  (Sorry if that seems patronising but I've seen some unbelievable misunderstandings in my time!)

[Manxman in exile]

I feel like I am belabouring this - your early retirement is done and dusted, a fait accompli, and not contingent on any further agreement from your employer?  I'm a bit surprised, like Bazza I think is, that your employer has agreed to early retirement in these circumstances.

 

Early retirement is costly for the employer and they usually have to be given a "good reason" to let anyone go early.  (Unless they want to get rid of you and it's the cheapest way of doing it.  Maybe they see you as a problem...).

 

I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but I've never known of anyone being allowed to take early retirement while they're on notice.

 

Also the different contractual arrangements all sound a bit odd for a LA if there's not been some previous transfer of staff.

 

(You say your not in a union because they ddin't help you before, but are you on good terms with a union rep who you can discuss this informally with

[Manxman in exile]

I suspect the employer simply wants rid off the OP.  That's fair enough.  (I and a few colleagues were "bought off" with early retirement on good terms).

 

The OP needs to satisfy themselves that all this (1) won't prevent early retirement from going through and (2) that any resolution to this problem doesn't have any retrospective effect on their salary, reducing their lump sum and pension.  I don't actually see how it could, but that's what would concern me.

 

OP must discuss this with their pension administrator.

[Manxman in exile]

An employee on notice, waiting to take early retirement, and who has perhaps been overpaid £7k in salary.

 

It's an interesting thing to consider for the LA's Director of Finance.  Unless the overpayment (if there's actually been one - no one seems to be certain yet) was entirely their fault and very embarrassing, I'd definitely be expecting them to take action to recover it.  In fact the LA probably has a duty to do so if there has been an overpayment.

 

I simply don't know if they could attempt some off-set against your pension.  If they tried to sue you, they might win, they might not.

 

For £7k I'm sure they try to recover an overpayment.

[Manxman in exile]

Such a provision makes sense.  I suspect it would be quite common.

 

It then comes down to determining whether or not there's been an overpayment...

[Manxman in exile]

I'd be interested to know as well.

 

Just to say also, whether or not a scheme allows pension benefits to be reduced or not is going to depend on the terms of the scheme - not "accountancy law".  (I'm certain when I retired the then NHS scheme did allow for a reduction in certain circumstances - usually some sort of fraud so I don't know if it would extend to an overpayment - assuming there's been one.  I'd expect all public sector schemes to have a similar provision).

[Manxman in exile]

38 minutes ago, ericsbrother said:

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I have searched the PO database and can find no example of a pension trust being ordered to hand over a bean in similar circumstances.

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What about this then - in principle?   "Where an Employing Authority has suffered a financial loss, NHS Pensions may reimburse them directly by offsetting the member’s NHS pension benefits once these have been claimed."

 

https://www.nhsbsa.nhs.uk/reduction-or-forfeiture-nhs-pension-scheme-benefits-and-using-02-exit-code

 

I couldn't say whether something similar might apply to the OP's pension or not (not least because the employer hasn't yet established that there's been an overpayment).  It's also true that this reduction/forfeiture provision is primarily directed at cases of fraud, but it would appear also to cover losses due to negligence or omission - which could conceivably cover some overpayment situations. And I would expect most public sector schemes to incorporate a similar provision.  I think it's a bold statement to make to say that this could never happen.  (I think you are assuming that the employer and the pension provider are always entirely different entities, which I don't think is that clear cut in the public sector.  It also comes down to what the T&Cs of the scheme say).

 

Without more detail from the OP though, it's all speculation.  I think they'd be very unlucky if some sort of off-set could be applied in these circumstances, but I suspect it could be possible in principle.

 

I'd want to know what the scheme administrators say.