Car pile up on A road, car written off, TPFT only

[BankFodder]

You will need to handle this aggressively. This means that you will have to attack the person in the car behind you directly and threaten them with a legal action in fairly short order.

You can be certain that they will try to deflected to their own insurer. I would suggest that you ignore this and that you carry on communicating with them and in the New Year send them a letter of claim followed by court papers – assuming that this is something you are prepared to do.

On the basis of what you say, or a legal action then your chances of success would be better than 95%.

I suggest that you go around your vehicle and take photographs. I suppose you can take photographs of any of the other vehicles at the time of the accident – but I suggest that you visit the accident location and take pictures so that you are able then to place things in context.

You need to get confirmation that the car is written off and the value of the car. You will be looking for a replacement value which should also take into account any special work you have had done recently such as new tyres, new exhaust et cetera.

You need to be careful because as it is in storage with the police, you may suddenly find that they are sending you a bill for storage and because you don't have an insurer for this, they will expect you to put your hands into your pocket. Of course you will add this to the bill that you are going to send to the person behind you – but you are under a duty to mitigate your loss so you will need to ascertain the condition of the car and the value of the vehicle as quickly as possible and then give approval for it to be scrapped – but make sure that you have a good paper trail on this. Also I would keep the other side (the person who ran into you) fully appraised as the action that you are taking so that they are offered an opportunity to inspect and to confirm the value and the condition et cetera. If they don't take you up on your offer then that's up to them but at least you will have evidence that you gave them every opportunity to protect themselves or their insurers.

 

If the person who ran into you must say that it wasn't their fault and it was the person behind them – then that's tough on them. They will have to see the people behind them.



That should be enough to get you started.

[BankFodder]

Also keep a detailed account of any expenses that you are being put to while you don't have a vehicle.

However, be aware that as you are under a duty to mitigate your loss, once it is established that the car is a loss then you will have to take reasonable steps to secure another vehicle because you won't be able to keep on incurring fares or hire car fees or anything else indefinitely. If you don't have the money to purchase a new vehicle at the moment then I'm afraid that is likely to be rather tough on you. Impecuniousoty of a victim is not generally considered to be the responsibility of a tortfeasor.

 

[BankFodder]

That is an excellent suggestion – and I wish I'd thought of it myself!

I suppose what is being foreseen here is a very possible scenario that the guy behind you will agree that he went into the back of you but he won't agree that he is responsible for your frontal damage.

Also, even though you were pushed into the guy in front, it may well be that the guy in front's insurer will be looking at you – and in that event, your third party insurance will be invoked and you stand a big risk of losing your no claims bonus.

Absolutely right about all the complications and the knock for knock arrangements et cetera. This is especially why you need to be attacking the driver behind you to make sure that you're not part of this process. In fact if you take your own action without the burden of an insurer around your neck, you may be able to produce a disruptive effect which will get everybody moving on to get it sorted out.

[BankFodder]

Do I understand then that the police have all statements and you do not have any?

I can predict that getting copies of the statements from the police will be extremely difficult and very time-consuming.

I suggest that you approach the other parties directly – and very gently and asked them for statements. People don't like making statements without help and so very often the best thing to do is to arrange to meet them and take the statement from them in your own writing – but get them to sign it.

If you have never done this before then the statement should start approximately –
 

Quote

My name is XXX, I live at XXX.
On such and such a date I was driving home from work/whatever they were doing in heavy traffic at about XX o'clock heading north/south et cetera along the a 406.

I came to a halt in a traffic jam but within 10 seconds or so I heard a bang from behind me and then a couple of seconds later I felt an impact on the back of my car and I discovered that the car behind me which had stopped in the traffic had itself been hit from behind which had then pushed it into the rear of my vehicle.

Signed
dated

You could ask them to sign it is a statement of truth – but this sounds rather formal and puts people off. You could also ask them to agree that they are prepared to give evidence if necessary – but once again this frightens people and makes them feel that they are going to get involved in some procedure which could cause problems in terms of time or money et cetera.

A simple statement is all you need. If you need more later on then you can go back later on but you have their basic account of the facts signed and dated and it is almost impossible that they will come back to you and say will actually what I signed before was untrue.

I always believe in going to take statements directly. You do the writing, get them to sign it and then give them a copy by way of a telephone photograph or something. The best thing to do is to ask them if they would like to write the statement or if they would prefer that you do it. In my experience, 99% of people will ask you to do it. Many people will be ashamed of their writing, for instance.

If you are a male and your witnesses a female then it could be an idea to go along with a female partner or female friend and maybe me any coffee bar somewhere where you're comfortable and it is informal.

If you can get this statement then you are home dry – bar the shouting.

[BankFodder]

You won't be obliged to deal with an insurance company if you don't want to. The insurance companies are trying to draw you into their procedure – but that is their own industry arrangement and it has little to do with you and frankly as you are a private individual, you will be better off conducting your own correspondence because you will be better off able to control the situation and to dictate the pace of events. Your power to do this will be in your threat to carry out a legal action at some point. Once you do issue papers then everybody has to conform to court timescales. Because you aren't constrained by industry practice and insider polite-dealing, you will find yourself in a rather more powerful position in many ways.

As you have the address of the person behind you I would suggest that you get a valuation for your vehicle based on two or three advertisements that you find for cars of the same model, make, age and mileage et cetera and then write to the lady behind you – the third party – and put her on notice that you will be holding her liable for the damage to your vehicle. (Don't this point inform her that you will be looking to her for damage to the front of your vehicle as well. Just keep it they can say that you will be holding her liable for the damage to your vehicle.)

 

Tell her that you are getting assessments of the value of the vehicle as it appears to be written off and give her the address of the location of your vehicle and invite her to carry out an inspection but warn her that at some point it may become economically necessary to remove the vehicle but that if she wants the vehicle to stay in its present location on the basis that she needs further time to carry out an inspection then tell her that if she will write to you in those terms then you will try to organise this – but she will then be liable for any extra storage costs. You are saying this partly because it is true but also because by giving her this morning, you are focusing her attention on her own liability.

 

This will move her along. She will initially start trying to put pressure on her insurer – and no doubt they will write to you and require that you communicate with them. You should ignore this and keep on communicating with her. I know it sounds pretty rough handling – but she is the weak link in the chain. If you leave this down to insurers it could take a long time. If you keep the pressure up on her then you are likely to get results much more quickly. It's a nasty approach – but then you don't have the benefit of an insurer to look after your immediate interests.

 

What do you think is the replacement value of your vehicle? Do you think that the damage to the rear end was in itself sufficient to write off the car? Or do you think that it is a combination of the value of the damage at both ends?

Make sure you get good evidence about the cost of a replacement vehicle. Don't forget that they will try the stiff you. I wouldn't give them a hint that you are badly in need of a vehicle – even if you are. If they think that you can't afford a replacement and so you are depending upon them to cough up quickly, they will leverage that to make a smaller payout.

 

 

Of course you've been here since 2006 so you are thoroughly familiar with the advice in our customer services guide and you will be applying the advice when making any telephone calls – won't you?

[BankFodder]

By the way, I think that the incident report is probably worth getting. I should write to the third party and let her know that you are going to ask for one and that you will be looking to her for the cost of this as part of the damages that you will be seeking in respect of the collision caused by her.

Don't forget that the insurance companies will probably all have a copy of the incident report – and of course the amount of money that it will cost them is no skin off their nose. You need to be similarly informed

 

I have just noticed that you say that you have already spoken to the vehicle recovery company. That is excellent because you have opened up a channel of communication and as you have recorded the call – having been here since 2006 – you have a good record of everything that was said. Bravo.

I would suggest that you follow it up in writing with them and confirm the details your conversation.

[BankFodder]

Okay. It probably won't matter but you never know it may be useful to apportion value to the front end and to the rear end damage. If there is an assessor, you might like to put this question.

Obviously you should go for the higher value. They will try to knock you down. It's not very much money so it shouldn't cause a huge amount of problem. Keep on looking around for valuations. If you can get if you valuations at say, £1500, then do your best to fight for this and for back to 1400 or 1300.

[BankFodder]

You are under a duty to mitigate your loss. This means that you can't keep your car in storage indefinitely and simply expect it to be paid for by another responsible party.

If you are certain that the car is a write-off then I suggest that you write a letter to the woman who went into the back of you, giving her the independent valuations that you have and any other evidence that the car is written off. Also send her the recovery bill and warn her of the accumulating storage fee.

You should tell her that as soon as she agrees that the car is written off and that it can be removed that you will then arrange for its disposal but until she gives that okay, the storage bill will keep on accumulating and she will be liable for it.

Tell that although you appreciate it is the festive season, you would recommend that she contacts her insurers urgently about this because in the first week of January if you have not heard a proposal for settling the matter, that you will be sending her a letter of claim and you will begin court proceedings before the end of January 2020.

Only say this if this is what you are prepared to do.

Tell her to organise an inspection of the vehicle and confirmation that it is a write off and that she agrees to its disposal. Warn her, however, that despite any insurance cover – she is personally responsible for your losses and it is up to her to recover those losses from her insurers but that you are not prepared to deal directly with her insurers or to accept any delay because of their procedures.



I would then suggest that about the six January, you send a letter of claim telling her that as you are unwilling to allow the storage fees to mount up any further, you are now making arrangements to dispose of the vehicle and that you will be suing her for the value of the vehicle £XXX plus storage fees incurred so far £XXX plus daily storage fee of £20 per day plus any disposal fee and that you will bring the action at the expiry of 14 days and without any further notice.

I suggest you send all correspondence by first class recorded delivery and by email if at all possible.

Keep us updated

[BankFodder]

You can handle almost all of these problems yourself without having to get claims management companies involved who will take a percentage of your winnings

The help we give here is completely free of charge – no strings

 

Also you should realise that these claims management companies won't cut to the chase. They want maximum money for minimum effort and they will waste time engaging with insurers and eventually settle for 50% or knock for knock or what have you. They do not act in your best interests.

 

[BankFodder]

Absolutely right. You can do it yourself.

Don't worry about the attitude of not wishing to talk to you. Send the letters –, send the threats – issue the papers – and suddenly you will find that they are talking to you.

They are simply trying to dominate you with "industry practice".

I hope you recorded the call to direct line – you have read our customer services guide haven't you?

You shouldn't be trying to deal with them anyway. You should be dealing directly with the woman who hit you – as I have already said. Now you should write her a letter telling her that on such and such a date you did try to deal with her insurer but they refused to deal with you.

Tell her that from now on you will be dealing directly with her and that is up to her whether she wants to pass correspondence to her insurer but if eventually you are obliged to issue a court claim, that she will be the person named in the claim form regardless of what her insurer says.

[BankFodder]

If you didn't include it, then send her an additional note as suggested above pointing out that her insurer has refused to speak with you.

 

You may as well leverage this against her and against the insurer. It will help to introduce a little bit of division between them and this will be no bad thing for you. 

[BankFodder]

Hold off sending anything until I post off a fuller reply tomorrow

[BankFodder]

well you can certainly start drafting something but I need a bit of time just to go over the thread again and to fix my ideas.

[BankFodder]

You couldn't sue her insurance anyway because you have no contractual or any other relationship with them. You would have to sue the driver.

What I have suggested is that you start taking direct and rapid action against the driver because she is in a position contractually to put pressure on the insurer.

Keep all your correspondence directly with her. Give her the opportunity to inspect the vehicle and given the fact that the costs of racking up I think you should explain to her that it is getting very expensive and you are anxious to mitigate losses. Therefore your giving another seven days for her to inspect or to arrange an inspection after which you will dispose of the vehicle in the interests of saving everybody any losses.

Send the letter to her recorded delivery – tracked – so there is no doubt that she has received it.

The insurer won't deal with you. They have no interest in dealing with you. As I have already pointed out, I believe, the woman behind you is the weak link. She is the one who will break ranks and panic and put pressure on the insurer. Focus on her, write to her, threatened her with a legal action – and eventually issue the papers against her. She'll do the rest

[BankFodder]

I think what you have been given is broadly a similar approach except that my colleague site team member @unclebulgaria67 is suggesting a more gentle and patient approach – whereas I'm afraid that I have a much more aggressive view of these things.

Certainly, you should follow the advice which is given in common – and after that you should adopt whichever approach is more suited to your taste and temperament.

We will support you either way

[BankFodder]

2 minutes ago, Mwynci said:

 

Sorry if you've answer this already, have you tried them since the first call ?

 

 

 

The OP has already been advised to put them on formal notice that the storage situation will be ended and that the vehicle will be disposed of and that they have a final seven days in which to carry out an inspection and that if they failed to do so or if they don't reply then it is they who will be held liable for any consequences.

I don't think there's anything more to say on this.

[BankFodder]

Write to the woman directly but send a copy to the insurance company.

[BankFodder]

Quite right. This is gone beyond calling on the phone

[BankFodder]

You should certainly stick to the timeline. Are you recording your calls? If so give them a call and see if they have anything interesting but tell them that the clock is still ticking. If you aren't recording your calls then don't phone. Email them and refer to the phone call and tell them that if they want they confine you again but the clock is still ticking

[BankFodder]

Yes I am sure that it is a lot of money.

I'm just trying to catch up on all of this. I understand that you have warned the other side that costs are accumulating and that you are going to take your own action to mitigate any losses if they don't come back to you. They haven't come back to you and so now you are going to go ahead and get the car disposed of and you have costs for this and you have informed the other side. Is this correct?

Have you send the letter of claim? Meaning have you sent it to the person who hit you?

[BankFodder]

Okay. Absolute right to know how much you'll be claiming before sending the letter of claim. However, the moment you do know then send it – as long as you mean it.

You can see that they're not too bothered about you but you can be certain that once the court papers are issued, their customer will be screaming at them and suddenly they will start leaping into action.

As with most things, it's a shame we have to get like this – that these people are used to controlling events and so they need a disruptive approach

[BankFodder]

Write to them and to the third party and tell them exactly what you are doing what the costs are are and what action you are taking. very important that they are not able to say later on that they won't give him notice about it

[BankFodder]

Yes. It won't do any harm. But send a letter of action separately

[BankFodder]

hang on, if you are doing a letter of claim then you only need to give them a 14 days and I would suggest you don't give them any longer. Why are you now giving them 30-days?

[BankFodder]

Personally I think they have had enough warnings. I had understood from an earlier post that as soon as you had the costs nail down that you were then going to send a letter of claim. I don't think you should give any more warnings. I think you should simply inform them of the cost you are about to incur. Then as soon as you know exactly what the bottom line is then I suggest that you send them the letter of claim with 14-days.

 

you are fighting against an insurance company here and I don't understand why you want to do them any favours