Drowning in Debt and very worried for my elderly friend

[joeblogs]

I'm not sure which forum this post should go on, so admin please move if necessary.

 

I am helping an elderly disabled friend who has about £30K unsecured civil debt, 2 credit cards Nationwide & Barclaycard, Nationwide loan and overdraft.  Nationwide are changing their authorised overdraft charges to 39.9% on 11.11.19. yet unauthorised overdrafts are going to be free.  The same thing is going to happen with all high street banks, but Nationwide are charging the most APR.

 

Anyway my friend is in receipt of PIP & I.B. ESA.  He has no assets and was considering bankruptcy.  He has no assets, doesn't own a home, council property, no car, up to date with all priority outgoings.

 

I have called Nationwide with him consenting and they will not accept a 60 month repayment consilidation loan for their debts of £285 per month at their lowest rate of 2.5% APR to which they said 'no' and have done nothing but keep pestering him on his mobile.  I have blocked their number as they called 5 times in half an hour.  They have said they will be calling back on Friday and want a proposal.

 

I want to know if Nationwide or Barclaycard send him a County Court Summons he will definitely have no available income as his family are helping him out financially, but can't continue to do so due to the increasing debts and the new APR.  If the Summons shows a Nil offer and he gets a CCJ put against his name, after 6 years will Nationwide and Barclaycard still be able to enforce the debts.  I read that if a CCJ is in place, the creditor can enforce the debt long after the 6 years have passed and the limitation act does not apply to the 6 years - is this correct?

 

I think for his own sanity he should ignore these greedy creditors who have had £1,000's out of him over the years, but not sure about the CCJ as I always thought that if you had no contact with a creditor for 6 years that the debt fell off your credit file along with any CCJ and defaults, although the debt is still owed, it is no longer enforceable.

 

Also can a Bailiff get a Warrant to enter his property for civil debts once a CCJ has been registered.

 

Any advice would be gratefully received.

[joeblogs]

Thank you Andyorch for your reply.  I am so sorry but I don't understand your answer ;-((

 

I am worried if the creditor/s could apply for the bailiff to enter his property.  He won't answer the door to anyone, but I'm worried the court could give permission to force entry - can the court give the creditor that amount of power for civil debts?.

 

The possible CCJ I cannot get to grips with.  I think what you are saying that if there is a CCJ the debt never ends as the creditor can return back to court to enforce it.  Is this the same for a Debt Collection Agency who may have bought the debt.

 

Sorry I sound really stupid but could you please explain it to me again.

[joeblogs]

Dear Andyorch, thank you so much for breaking it down for me, now I understand.

 

I will talk to the elderly gent and explain to him. 

 

It may be that neither of the creditors will go for a CCJ but just want to be able to explain all the options.

Debt is horrible, he's out of his mind with worry, I hope if a bailiff does turn up that they don't visit his neighbour's house as he lives in a very small cul de sac where everyone know everyone.

 

Nationwide have been offered a very substantial monthly amount, but they still want more, well when I heard about it, I said about not acknowledging the debt anymore as they won't accept the offer.  Nationwide are calling him again tomorrow on one of their other numbers, not sure what he should say to them. 

 

Finally, if he receives a Summons, should he acknowledge it and I know his income and expenditure is in deficit as his family have been helping, should he put NIL offer, or just ignore the Summons.

 

Sorry for all the questions and thank you so much for all your help.

 

 

[joeblogs]

Thanks again Andyorch, a breakdown and email was sent to Nationwide CEO himself offering £285 per month with the help of family, Nationwide said 'no'. 

 

It has only just started, so no defaults and Barclaycard are not aware yet although they will also get an email of offer. 

 

I've blocked his phone and so far today there have been 8 missed calls despite the fact they called yesterday and said they would call back tomorrow. Today is the first day of the missed payment, so very early stages.

 

The two creditors have made so much compounded interest over the years and still the old boy is trying to pay by going without, but his family are putting their foot down now and saying they aren't paying anymore than what they have offered, in fact, they have took that offer off the table.

 

Will wait for their phone call tomorrow, I will try to be with him for part of the day to see what they have to say, but I think enough is enough now. 

 

The family helped him open another high street bank, cancelled all monies going into his account and they are now being paid into the new account, and cancelled all Direct Debits and set them up in the new account so Nationwide can't 'self help'. 

 

Thanks for all your advise, it's much appreciated especially when this gentleman suffers in agony every day of his life and the worry of this debt is getting to him.  I will support him as much as I can and will come back and report updates if that's ok.

[joeblogs]

Thanks everyone for all the advice, well he's waiting for the dreaded phone call today.

 

They tried a total of 8 times yesterday, 4 calls between 4.02pm, 4.13pm, 4.19pm and 4.30pm.

 

Just checked his phone and they've just called again.  I blocked their number yesterday, however, today they are going to be calling on another number from another department.  I told the gent to tell them he is seeking debt advice and to put everything on hold until the end of November.

 

He's due to have a shoulder replacement in January and will need a lot of care which his family are going to give.

 

I'm not sure he should go bankrupt next year as he is getting really upset, crying and the first payment was only missed yesterday.

 

I will update you later today.

 

Thanks again.

[joeblogs]

Thanks so much Andy and everyone who has supported this thread.  I will look for the Barclaycard thread after this post.

 

So Nationwide made another 4 calls and we noted the times all within the hour.

 

Then the expected Nationwide call came through. The phone was on loadspeaker and I had a notepad ready to write prompts down for this gent.  I'm not sure if they use an Indian call center, but the man was pleasant enough asking about what money the gent gets each month, he gets PIP and IB ESA. So my friend told the caller that his family cannot support him anymore and that the offer to consolidate and repay the unrealistic £285 per month.  With me prompting he said 'if you want to make me bankrupt it will save me £680 as I don't own a car or house' - I was impressed.  In the end I took over the call with the gent's permission and have asked them to send my friend an 'authority for me to act on his behalf' which they are going to do, I also said about all these harassment phone calls and the caller took the number and said he would raise a complaint (if anyone still believes in the tooth fairy).  The caller said he will call back on Tuesday after he has spoken to his team members and other departments.

 

I am now going to send out your file letter section 78 request for the credit cards and 77 for the loan.  Can I please ask Andy what does put them on Notice mean?  Sorry for all the questions.  Now to CAG  library.  Oh and Barclaycard have not yet had a missed payment so should he wait untiil 18.10.19. to a send Section 78 letter to them.

 

One last thing, he received an email from Barclaycard last week which I don't understand saying:-

 

We need to let you know about some changes we’re making to your terms and conditions from 25 November 2019.

•	The three key changes are numbered below and outlined in the Summary of Key Changes leaflet
•	Some minor changes that may or may not affect you are also detailed in the Summary of Key Changes leaflet
•	To make the full T&Cs easier to follow and understand, we’ve reordered some of the clauses and simplified a few words, these changes have no legal impact and are not detailed in the Summary of Key Changes leaflet

All of the changes above are in the updated copy of your terms and conditions.

Here are the three most important changes: 1) Changes to transaction fees

Due to new regulations, the cash transaction fees we charge will be the same in the UK and abroad. From 25 November 2019, we’re introducing ‘cash fees’ on non-sterling cash transactions at 2.99% (there is a minimum fee of £2.99, except on gaming transactions, where there is no minimum fee). We’ll no longer charge any ‘non-sterling transaction fees’ on cash transactions made in foreign currencies.

 

[joeblogs]

Thanks Andy

 

I'm doing the letters now.  I popped into see him today to find him crying, he showed me his phone, Nationwide had tried to call him 5 times in less than an hour. Thank goodness I blocked their number, so much for a formal complain being put in by McKenzie.

 

The family have him from lunchtime to day until tomorrow evening.  This is wearing me out and I feel so sad for the man.  Nationwide are relentless.  The letters will for by Recorded Delivery on Monday. 

 

Nationwide are calling back on Tuesday, how do I advise him to play for time - any suggestions are welcomed.

 

Again, thanks for all yours and everyones help.

[joeblogs]

Thank you so much Andy, I am so happy, I'm going to call my friend now and tell him.

 

Can I please just ask one quick question, if you use a Debt Management Plan with one of the free organisations, am I correct in thinking that they come to an agreement with the creditors on your behalf and the debtor pays Step Change a monthly amount which they split on a pro rata basis between the creditors.

 

But what happens after 6 years have passed and the debt is still outstanding, is it then written off, or is the debtor expected to continue making payments every month until they die (if they haven't died before)?

 

I am sure that under the limitations act a debt is written off if there has been no acknowledgement or payment of the debt, so am confused as to how a payment plan would work as surely if it's not written off, I can't see any advantage in using a debt management system as it will surely extend the debt.

 

I going to call my friend now, thank you so very much Andy.

[joeblogs]

Thanks dx,  I did have a quick read on Gator's thread (the one thread below this) and that's what concerned me, I agree it's much better for me to suggest the 'do it yourself' with my help route.  I will have a chat with my friend.

 

I also though that he might benefit from a Ring doorbell.

 

Thanks again to you and Andy for all your advice.

[joeblogs]

Hi Everyone

 

On behalf of my elderly friend and on the advice received on this forum, last week I sent Nationwide a Section 78 Letter with a £1 Postal Order by Recorded Delivery.  My friend did not sign the letter as advised, I just typed his name at the bottom.

 

Today he has received a reply from them saying 'you have not signed the letter of authority, therefore I am unable to respond to your request for information at this time. 

 

I have returned the letter of authority that you have provided.

 

Please ensure when making any future requests for information that the letter of authority is signed and that you provide the relevant fee, which is £1 for each of the accounts that you require information on'

 

Written on the top of my friend's letter to them is '£1 postal order received 15.10.19.'  They never returned his postal order.

 

Can you please advise me what I can do next for my buddy.  Thanks

 

 

 

[joeblogs]

Hi DX100

 

Sorry I think I have confused people.  I only typed the letter for my friend as coming from him (not me), for all Nationwide know the elderly man typed the letter, sent the Postal Order and sent the letter by Recorded Delivery.

 

It was NOT a letter of authority, it was the Section 78 letter from your library.  So as Nationwide are not accepting my friend's letter due to him now signing it what should he do now, resend it and sign it or what can anyone suggest.  They have kept his postal order.

 

Thanks

[joeblogs]

Hi DX100

 

Thanks for replying.  No he has not changed address.  They are insisting that the cca request letter must be signed.

 Can you please advise me as to how he should reply to them.

 

Thanks

[joeblogs]

LOL thats funny about educating N/W.

 

So I've told him not to worry and we will send them back the letter and a letter explaining what DX and Andy said.

 

Thanks for all your help.

[joeblogs]

Good day everyone,  as advised, CCA1974 section 78 request letter was sent back to N/W yesterday with an add on 'where does it state on CCA that the request must be signed?', my buddy sqwiggled his signature at the bottom of the letter and I took him with me to send it by Recorded Delivery.

 

This morning I have popped into see him and he showed me his phone, N/W sent 11 text messages yesterday afternoon in one hour and this morning they have already called 6 times and it's only 09.40am.

 

Is there some organisation that these relentless calls and texts can be reported to?

 

His family are coming to see him later today as they carry out his care needs and I'm going away next week but have told him he can call me if he gets worried about anything. 

 

Before I go I would really like to know if N/W can be reported for harassment. 

This guy who is reliant on disability benefits and per my original post on this thread,

 

I called N/W with his consent and asked if they would accept on his behalf £285 per month which would have made him struggle,

I feel really guilty now as they still refused his offer. 

I cannot believe what lengths these creditors will go to.

 

Thanks everyone

[joeblogs]

Hi and thanks for your replies.

When my friend was answering his telephone to N/W he complained then about the harassment and they said they would look into it.

He received a blog email off them which just touched on the constant phoning and they said

'In terms of the calls you've been receiving, these are dialed automatically from our Collection and Recovery Team and I apologise for any upset caused'

 

I've had a quick look at FOS on this site and it doesn't appear he would benefit to complain to them.  He does have a smart phone so all the calls are logged and I've shown him how to block the calls as they keep using different numbers.  I think that's the best way forward until he hears from his request CCA 77 and 78.  As mentioned Monday N/W said that CCA 78  had to be signed.  He sqwiggled at the bottom of the letter and he will probably get a reply when I'm away.

 

Unless anything else crops up before I go away, I want to thank everyone for their assistance.  I have reassured my friend that nothing bad is going to happen and I will come back with updates when I return.

[joeblogs]

Hi everyone

 

Just wanted to update the forum and ask for more advice as I am helping an elderly man who has got himself into a financial mess.

 

You will see from my post number 26 that N/W returned the request but not the £1 postal order and stated in their letter 'Please ensure when making any future requests for information that the letter of authority is signed and that you provide the relevant fee, which is £1 for each of the accounts that you require information on'  

 

I took the advice in post number 31 and resent the letter on 22 October adding  'where does it state on CCA that the request must be signed?' and got my friend to sqwiggle his name at the bottom of the letter.  I also reminded them in that letter that they had already received a postal order for £1 which was sent with the request and that it was not to be used for any other purposes.

 

Upon checking all of his letters over the last couple of weeks, I see that N/W have only gone and added the £1 Postal Order onto the credit card debt as a partial payment on 15.10.19.   -   Any advice on this please as I have already written on behalf of my friend twice to N/W pointing out the obvious, however, they seem to be doing their own thing.

 

With regards to his loan with N/W, he sent a letter on 14 October under section 77 enclosing a £1 Postal Order and they have sent him a copy of his personal loan agreement - and returned the £1 postal order for that request!!!

 

Also he has received from Barclaycard a reconstituted copy of his credit card agreement.

 

I could do with advice on how to move forward with N/W using the £1 postal order against his debt and how to obtain a copy of his agreement under section 78.

 

Also, what happens now that he has copies of his N/W Loan and Barclaycard agreements.

 

All advice gratefully received, thanks.

[joeblogs]

Thanks Andy.  Do you just want me to upload his N/W Loan and Barclaycard agreements or do you want me to include the £1 debacle letter?

 

None of his debt are statue barred as he has been paying right up until September 2019.

 

I will upload when you tell me if you want to see.  Thanks.

[joeblogs]

I have gone through the two CCA documents, scanned them, transferred them into PDF's 

 

my elderly friend is getting more and more upset due to the high pressure of harassment he is experiencing from the two creditors in the way of tree loads of letters and daily phone calls - the calls are blocked, but I looked at his phone and one day he had 22 phone calls.

 

He does have mental health issues and is due to see his Mental Health provider next month. 

B/Card have sent him a form and asked him to ask his psychiatrist if he will complete it. 

 

I've had a look at this form 'Debt and Mental Health Evidence Form' and if he can get it completed it can be copied and sent to all creditors along with an I/E form, then B/Card have said they will decide what direction they will take.  The Evidence Form is not specific to any particular creditor which is great if he can get it completed.

 

Bearing in mind, his appointment is not until mid December, then we have Christmas and New Year, I don't think the Evidence Form and I/E will get looked at until the New Year.  I have got time before Christmas to help him complete an Income and Expenditure form, or I can ask the family to help him out, but they are more 'hands on' with dealing with his disabilities, medication and health complications, so I don't mind spending a couple of hours going through an I/E with him, also he tends to open up to me more than his family.

 

Should I help him complete an I/E and send it to his two creditors, or should he wait and send the Evidence Form and I/E together.  I personally think it's better to send them both together, but it's the threatening letters he keeps receiving and phone calls which are making his mental health worse.  I do my best to reassure him and would welcome opinions on what I have suggested in this post.

 

Thanks for all your advice.

 

 

BC_CCA_return.pdf Nationwide CCA return.pdf

[joeblogs]

Hi Andy

 

Yes the N/W start date is correct, he's paid 2 years of a 3 year agreement, there is one year left owing.

 

Thanks for the advice on B/Card.

 

So going back to my post 42, should he wait until he's had his appointment with his mental health provider mid December and hopefully they will complete the 'Debt and Mental Health Evidence Form', then he can send copies of it to N/W and B/Card with an income and expenditure, the only thing with that is it won't be looked at until after Christmas?   Or has anyone got any other suggestions?

 

Thanks

 

 

 

[joeblogs]

Hi everyone

 

I could do with some advice now as to how to move this problem for my friend forward.

 

Should he wait until mid December and ask his Mental Health psychiatrist to complete the Debt and Mental Health Form and send it to B/Card and N/Wide with an income and expenditure, or can anyone suggest anything in the meantime.

 

I personally think he should wait until he's see his psychiatrist, but then they won't get any correspondence until the new year.

 

Any suggestions gratefully received.

[joeblogs]

Thanks Andy

 

N/Wide didn't send him the Credit Card agreement, instead putting the £1 for the CCA Section 77 against the debt, so he doesn't know if the credit card is enforceable.

 

I could always advise him to ask N/W to send the agreement when we tell them the position and we will be back in touch in December.

 

Thanks

[joeblogs]

Hi Brassnecked, yes it was stipulated in CCA Section 77 that the £1 must not be used against the debt - letter used from CAG library. 

N/Wide wrote back, kept the £1 and stated that the letter had to be signed (which it doesn't have to be signed) and asked for £1. 

A second letter was sent with my friend sqwiggling his signature and pointed out that they had already received the £1. 

 

To date,. he has not received a copy of his credit card agreement. 

As two requests have been sent for a copy of the agreement, I am at a loss as to what to advise him to do about getting a copy.

 

Hi Andy, 

he has three N/Wide debts, the PDF in post 42 is for his loan. 

He has not received the agreement for his credit card with N/Wide as mentioned in the paragraph above. 

 

Then he has an overdraft, but the advice on the forum was not to worry about the overdraft at this stage.

[joeblogs]

Hi,

 

Andyorch, you say in your post number 47 that the Barclaycard debt is not enforceable.  Can you explain in a couple of sentences why it isn't enforceable.  Thanks

[joeblogs]

Hi DX100uk

 

I asked so that I could try and explain it to my friend  as I didn't understand the agreement.

 

Hi Andyorch

 

Thank you for explaining, I can now show him what you have written.

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

He is going on his appointment to the Mental Health Team on 17 December so he will ask if his doctor will complete the Debt and Mental Health form.

 

He has sent yet a third request under Section 78 for a copy of his N/Wide credit agreement and he has still not received it from them.  The first request they put the £1 postal order against the credit card debt, a second letter was sent explaining all this and to send a copy of the agreement, yet again this was ignored.  A week ago a third request was sent and they still haven't  sent a copy of the agreement.  I am beginning to think they haven't got a copy of the agreement.

 

I will update in due course.

 

Thanks

[joeblogs]

Thanks to both Dx100 and Andyorch for taking the time help, much appreciated.