Notice of intended Prosecution

[shywazz]

Just a very quick Question on the 14 day rule, The alleged offence took place on 21/05/19 going through lights as changed to red ? Not going to dispute, was going to just accept a What's driving us scheme work shop, however maybe the 14 day rule applies here, 21/05/19 alleged offence, Notice issue 04/06/19 which is 14 days after alleged offence, received notice today 06/06/19 which now totals 16 days from alleged offence ? Thoughts please, reply accepting scheme or dispute under 14 day rule. Many thanks 

Edited June 6, 2019 by shywazz

[afcwben]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-45668735

 

If its good enough for David Beckham

Edited June 7, 2019 by afcwben

[Manxman in exile]

AIUI, only the first NIP is subject to any 14 day rule, and that's the one that will go to the Registered Keeper* as held by the DVLA.

 

Are you the Registered Keeper on the V5C document, or is it perhaps a company car or lease car (or somebody else is registered keeper)?

 

Go and check the V5C - don't just assume it's you.

 

*  Note that the Registered Keeper may not necessarily be the owner of the car.

[Man in the middle]

Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle (i.e. do you hold the V5C?). Are all the details on it correct? Have you recently bought the vehicle or changed address?

 

The dates that you quote make it likely that the first NIP (the only one subject to the 14 day rule) went to somebody else who nominated you as the driver. 

 

The comparison with Mr Beckham is not quite appropriate. In his case it was indeed the first NIP that was deemed served late but it went to Bentley Motors (the Registered Keeper) not him.

 

As an aside, it is unlikely that you have seen action taken against you for crossing the stop line as the lights changed to red. Red light cameras only operate if any part of the vehicle crosses the line after the red light comes on. Your NIP should show how long "into the red" it was when you crossed the line. 

[shywazz]

Hi. And thanks for the replies. It's correct that I own the car. And indeed only I drive it. I will not be disputing the offence. This is indeed the 1st notice about this offence. Not been sent to other persons. Since the notice was dated on the 14th day after the offence took place. And 2 days for delivery. Total 16 days does this fall foul of the 14 day dead line rule. If so I will dispute for this reason. Otherwise I will just accept the offer of the driver awareness scheme. To prevent fine and points. Cheers 

[Manxman in exile]

Are you the Registered Keeper on the V5C?  That's what's important regarding the NIP being served in time.

 

As I noted above, being "the owner" does not necessarily mean you are also the Registered Keeper.

 

Is it your name and current address on the V5C as Registered Keeper?  If it is, then you may have a defence to the red light charge because the NIP was not served in time.

 

But you still have to comply with any s.172 request to name the driver.  If you don't this is a separate offence to the red light, and will cause you much more grief.  (That's assuming no time limit applies to the 172 request...I'm not sure).

[shywazz]

Hi. Yes all documentation regarding motor car in my name. Cheers 

[Man in the middle]

No, no time limit applies to a S172 request.

 

If you are absolutely certain that:

 

1. You are the Registered Keeper of the vehicle (forget about ownership) and

2. That the V5C shows you as such and that the details are all correct in every detail (get it out and check it) and

3. That the "docref" date on the bottom is a good bit before the date of the alleged offence

 

then you may have a cast iron defence in that the NIP was served late and a prosecution cannot succeed. However, you need to make absolutely certain of all those facts. A good strategy might be to include a letter when you send your S172 response (which, as has been explained, you must do regardless of any issues with the late NIP) asking why the NIP was served "out of time". They may (a) explain the reason, (b) drop the matter out of "embarrassment" or (c) make you an offer of a course or Fixed Penalty.

 

The peril you must be aware of is that if there is a valid reason for the late NIP (which you don't discover) and you take the matter to court the chance of a course or Fixed Penalty will, by then be lost. If convicted you will then be sentenced in accordance with the Sentencing Guidelines and you will face prosecution costs which will be between £250 and £620.

Edited June 7, 2019 by Man in the middle

[Manxman in exile]

6 hours ago, shywazz said:

Hi. Yes all documentation regarding motor car in my name. Cheers 

 

So the V5C definitely is in your name and your address is correct?

[shywazz]

Hi. Yep everything in my name. Had car from new and same address for 10 years.. 

[Manxman in exile]

Sorry, I probably seem a bit over-pedantic about this, but a lot of people come a cropper because they thought that they were the RK on the V5C, but don't actually check it.

 

The only document that is important is the V5C.  Does "all documentation" and "everything" include the V5C?  Have you got the V5C and have you checked it to make sure?  (It's just that you haven't actually confirmed this unequivocally.  Without knowing, it's impossible to say if you may have a viable defence.  eg when people change address they often think they've notified DVLA by getting their driving licence changed, but forget to change the V5C as well. )

[shywazz]

Hi. Yes V5C is in my name. Cheers 

[Manxman in exile]

Well, if you own the car and if you are recorded as Registered Keeper on the V5C (and your address is correct) and the NIP is outside* 14 days, then it looks as if you may have a defence.  But if you have received a s.172 request to name the driver, you still must do this within the timescales, otherwise you are committing a "worse" offence.

 

* I can never remember if the 14 days relates to date of issue or date of service, and also can't remember if the date of the offence counts as day 0 or day 1.  Also, AIUI, it's very unusual these days for the first NIP to be issued late.  Are you sure this is the first one?

 

Hopefully Man in the middle or someone else can give you more reliable advice than I can!