Arrow Claimform - old HSBC OD debt

[robinjw]

I have received a letter today from Arrow Global saying their solicitors Drydensfairfax will be chasing an old debt from First Direct (HSBC on the letter).

 

I believe this original debt goes back to the mid 90's, current amount shown is £1,989.

Letter states original agreement was 15.10.07.

I have only ever had the one account at FD from the 90's so I dont know where the 2007 dates comes from.

 

In june 2015 I contacted Step Change to try sort out my debts.

I was unaware at the time that this would only last 1 year before they all started chasing the debts again.

 

This debt was on that list( I think)- back then it was recorded at £1700, so charges have been added since, though its not stipulated, Step Change requested no further charges added. I paid the Step Change charges (£1 for each debt) for the year.

 

However, if their letter states the agreement was 2007 is this still even enforceable?

 

It feels like they have gone through old files and dug ups some to chase, including mine. Ive not had any contact about this debt in the last 2 years to my knowledge.

 

The letter only tells me that the debt is being transferred to sols, but I want to be forearmed as to what to do when they start pestering me again.

 

Is this debt enforceable?

Ive a horrible feeling using Step Change has restarted the clock on the statute.

 

Ive had dealings with Arrow before and they were very aggressive.

 

Never heard of the latest sols they are using in this case.

 

Any advice greatly appreciated.

Robin

[robinjw]

Hi,

With First Direct they sent it straight to debt collection agencies after I missed one payment, that was back in the mid 90's.

I was never given the opportunity to pay back FD direct.

 

1st payment to Step Change was around end of June 2016. last payment would have been a year later when the plan automatically stopped ( which I was not informed of at the time that this would happen.) I only realised the payments had stopped a few months later when other sent me collection notices.

 

They have not chased me for the debt in the meantime since it stopped.

 

[robinjw]

Yesterday I received my first letter (ever) from DrydensFairfax re the above.

They state that on 3rd August 2017 'a county court claim' was filed against me for the debt.

No court is mentioned.

 

However, whilst they do list a claim number for the alleged CCJ, this is the first I have heard of it.

I have NEVER received any information from any court about this debt, or from Arrow Global previously  collecting for it.

Nor have I had any warning letters prior to anything being lodged, or any opportunity to respond if it was lodged

. Additionally this is a very old debt as listed above.

 

It goes on the say 'if Im experiencing difficulties to call to discuss a plan to pay 'etc giving me 14 days to respond or enforcement action 'may' be taken against me, including:-

 

1. Warrant of control -re a bailiff 'could' visit to take my items

2. Attachment of earnings order- employer could be forced to pay on my behalf via earnings ( Im not employed by a company, I live off my savings and occasionally work for a friend )

3. Charging order 'could' be obtained against my property.

 

The fact that this is all worded as could/ may be/ might makes me feel like this is a ruse to get me to contact them via making threats.

 

Also, if they have had my details for so long why would they wait nearly 2 years to start trying to collect on the supposed CCJ?

Is there an online way I can find out if this debt really has a CCJ attached?

Ive had dealings with trying to call courts before and they take hours to answer the phone.

 

I did not respond to their last letter as I was waiting to see what their next move would be, however, I did check the SRA register and this solicitor does seem to exist as Drydens Ltd since 2016.

 

Please advise what my next step should be.

Many thanks in advance.

 

quick additional note,

just found www.trustonline.org.uk which states it is the Official Statutory Register of Judgments, Orders and Fines for England and Wales on behalf of the Ministry of Justice for the claim number on the letter, this web site states the number is invalid, adding to my suspicions that this is a fake threat.

[robinjw]

There is no court listed where this supposedly was lodge, so how do I know which to call?

[robinjw]

I have sent them an email and will try to get through next week. Just out of interest, how do they get a CCJ lodged 'by the back door' as you put it?

[robinjw]

 I downloaded a copy of the SAR from your site ready to add to and send but wanted to wait and see what the first letter threatened before launching any kind of attack as such.

 

I am slightly baboozled by the SAR thing as I have moved around a lot in the last 30 years since this debt began at HBOS including being out of the country for 5 years and several addresses in UK after that.

Also, Im not really sure who/ where to send it to.

 

"Bank Fodder' who added the file on  your link states 'SAR always goes to the original creditor regardless to if the debt has been sold to no powers Debt collection agency"  - how can they be 'no powers' if they can lodge CCJs in your name and use and old address to 'back door' it as suggested above?

 

Seems like quite a lot of power from my perspective if it forces me to pay something that should have been statue barred perhaps.

The link to the ICO from your site does not work. Ive looked at their site and cant find a way to get HBOS controller address to send a SAR to.

[robinjw]

Should I write to Drydens re this issue as they have specified a 14 day reply period?

[robinjw]

I signed up to get my file, but they are couldnt find enough info so theyre checking and will send it within a day or so online.

[robinjw]

after some faffing about Ive managed to get my credit file from Noddle instead.

 

The good news is there are no CCJs on there at all.

Bad news is there is a default which does not belong to me for a fictitious £40 debt from Lowell is. (grrr!)

 

Also a default from Link Financial who tried to get a money claim on me a few months ago, then did nothing after I challenged them via responding to the court claim. ( Think that was unenforceable.) Ive had no contact from the court or them about that, but its still on my file.

I digress.

 

There is no record of this debt or a default for it on my file at all.

In fact HSBC are not listed anywhere on the report.

 (YAY!)

 

I have not contacted Drydens yet or responded to any letters.

I have prepared the SAR and will send it Monday now Ive found the address to send to.

Should I add anything to it other than my previous addresses, how far back should I go?-

 

Re the letter from Drydens, which seems to be a ruse to get me to contact them,

I think someone mentioned above that I should report that if I found it to be  a lie - if so- where to and what should I state?

 

The only addresses listed for me are ones from after I returned from abroad in 2005

( 2007 on credit file as that's when I moved out from the rented into my own place)

[robinjw]

Dx100Uk-  who is the OC please? I have no intention of contacting Drydens yet.Should I include addresses only in this country-not when I was abroad in the SAR? Scan of letter added as requested.

 

Renegadeimp- thanks for checking, Ive had a look myself and it seems like a common ruse to scare folks to pay up.

This debt does not even appear on my credit report, ( assume because it is so old) neither does Arrow Global or Drydens appear there.

 

There are no CCJ's listed-their letter states a CCJ was lodged on a specific date in 2017-more than enough time -and recent enough for it to have appeared by now.

 

I am more than willing to report this if someone can tell me who, and what address, to report to.

drydens.pdf

[robinjw]

Ok well I managed to get through to the court this morning the claim number is real.

It has been on hold since the court say that I filed an acknowledgement on 25th July 2017 because defence was entered.

 

I honestly could not remember filing an acknowledgement as at that time I would have just come back from away working in Spain for a few months from Feb until end of May 2017.

However, I checked all my emails and a friend who works in debt industry had told me to acknowledge, so I must have done.

 

the case is currently on hold as no defence was entered.

No judgements have been filed.

They say I can now file a defence via email as soon as possible which I have an email for.

They court have my correct address on file.

 

Can someone please help me with some wording or a defense as I am fairly sure this would have been statute barred anyway?

[robinjw]

Ive looked through all my documents and cant find the court claim.

The court have sent me this as the particulars of claim via email just now:

( no actual document was sent just this reply)

 

 

Particulars of Claim:

Claimant Solicitor Details SHOOSMITHS LLP (1574) [the is a Link Financial ref on the claim not Arrow Global or Drydens]

 

1. THE CLAIMANTS CLAIM IS FOR THE SUM OF £xxx BEING MONIES DUE FROM THE DEFENDANT TO THE CLAIMANT AS A CONSEQUENCE OF THE DEFENDANT INCURRING AN OVERDRAFT WHILST OPERATING A BANK ACCOUNT (ACCOUNT NO. XXX) WITH HSBC PLC. THE DEBT WAS ASSIGNED TO THE CLAIMANT ON 13/05/2011 AND NOTICE OF ASSIGNMENT PROVIDED TO THE DEFENDANT, PURSUANT TO THE LAW OF PROPERTY ACT 1925.

 

2. PAYMENT OF THE ABOVE SUM HAS BEEN REQUESTED, BUT AS AT THE DATE HEREOF REFUSED.

 

3. THE CLAIMANT CLAIMS THE SUM OF £XX. C HAS COMPLIED, AS FAR AS IS NECESSARY, WITH THE PRE-ACTION CONDUCT PRACTICE DIRECTION.

 

Please can someone help me draft a defence for this?

 

Ive replied on the other thread as requested, have now received the court claim particulars via email just now.

[robinjw]

Thank you. Couple of questions:

Should I not include something about statute barring re the various dates given above, together with the claim that the account was defaulted in?

Re part 6 and the "documentation by way of a CPR 31.14 request dated XX XXXXX 2014 "- should that be replaced with todays date?

My credit file only goes back as 2013, and no defaults or listing of this bank account is on there at all, is this relevant to the defense too?

 

[robinjw]

I dont know if it was statute barred.

Their court claim above states it was instigated on 13/05/2011 which is impossible as  I had no account with HSBC since the 90's.

 

I had a DMP via Stepchange which has caused a lot more issues than it solved to be honest.

That started in 15/6/2015 which this debt was listed as part of

( they should have advised me it was already statute barred by then).

 

I paid the DMP for 1 year at which time it automatically stopped

( which I was not aware of until 6 months after the fact.)

So I may have inadvertently been paying.

 

Is it safer just to file the overdraft defence you listed and not mention statute barring?

[robinjw]

Just a thought

 

In the notes I took from the phone call with the court this morning they said it was 'on hold, stayed, no action yet pending my defence submission.

So, I should just send the defence today via email anyway to cover myself?

[robinjw]

Already had it ready to send, just wanted to be sure.

Have sent it now.

Have also posted the SAR to HSBC as suggested.

 

Thanks for your help.

[robinjw]

Just a little update,

I put in my defence and the court has replied to me saying that they will serve a copy to the claimant or their sols.

 

They say the claimant may try to contact me direct to resolve a dispute.

If unresolved they inform the court how to proceed.

 

If they proceed they must contact the court within 28 days of getting my defence.

After that the claim will be stayed and the only action would be for them to request a stay lift.

So, I await a response from Global which Im sure I'll get next week sometime.

[robinjw]

Quick question, if the debt collectors dont respond and the court put a 'stay' on it after 28 days, does that mean it cant be picked up again by any debt company?

[robinjw]

Just a quick update to this thread. I finally received a letter today from Drydens Fairfax stating that they have closed the case and returned it to the client.

 AWESOME!

I am only left wondering if I should do something re the court now- I saw someone else mention the stay, can I request the court close the case in some way too so it does not get recycled again by another debt collector?

[robinjw]

Why is it not over if the case is closed?

Do they have other moves, or is it just that another company could try their luck?

 

No, Ive no idea how Link did that or why they would do it unless it was an admin error on their part, just glad its over for now at least as everyone who has chased that debt since the 90's has been very aggressive.

 

Just glad I caught it in time so I can at least get more breathing space without constant harrassment.

Thanks again for the help, really do appreciate it.

[robinjw]

I see. The letter literally states "In ref to Arrow Global xxx acct number. Please note that our file has been closed and returned to our client."

There is nothing else in the letter.

[robinjw]

On the court papers it said they had 28 days to respond. They didnt respond until about two months had passed and Ive had no word from the court. Does that fact effect anything going forward?