PRA Judge & Priestley Claim Form MBNA

[shamrocker]

Many thanks for all your help well be donating very soon ..

just out of interest what will happen next. . It's my first court experience

 

Hi Mahul04 - I've been away from this site for a while,

 

 

I was in a similar position to you with taking on J&P with an old MBNA debt not too long ago.

 

 

I lost, but learned a lot in the process - expensive lesson with over £5k in costs on top of the full amount awarded to the claimant!

 

 

I'll look in from time to time to see how you're getting on and may be able to offer you some pointers.

 

 

With there being no apparent agreement it being pre-2007,

I have a feeling they'll adopt a similar approach with you to that used with me.

 

 

In the meantime, you may want to look at my old thread, particularly the end part where I summed up the experience.

 

Good luck!

 

Sham

[shamrocker]

Hi guys... they'll make a 'Without Prejudice' offer at some stage no doubt,

but my personal mistake,

apart from being very naive going into the trial,

was to eject it in the thinking that they were afraid to go to trial themselves.

Pre-armed with what I know now,

I could have presented a much stronger defence at the trial.

 

 

Ultimately, I also did not lay the groundwork properly prior to the trial either - within my defence and witness statements,

and no skeleton argument for the 'mini-trial'.

 

 

i was a bit of a mess tbh - easy pickings, but wiser for the experience.

 

Anyway, we're a long way off that stage yet!

 

Sham

[shamrocker]

That isn't a compliant agreement. I'd start reading up on improperly/properly executed credit agreements if I were you. Try to gain a good understanding of this area and it will stand you in good stead ahead of future stages in the claim.

 

My guess is that they'll apply for summary judgement on the strength of having the signed 'application form' plus some account statements, default notice, etc. and just hope you aren't savvy enough to bat them off.

 

Did you receive anything from your CCA request in 2009?

[shamrocker]

this is the reply I got from j and p regarding the cpr3114 .. welcome any thoughts on this as it will come back when we are in court .. any help- regarding the validity of the original agreement are welcome to ... many thanks guys

 

Mahul04 - looking at the detail of your case so far, I see many similarities with my own that I went through last year.

 

 

You can defend this, but you'll need to have a clear understanding of how you're going to approach it.

You need to be able to convey strongly why a court cannot give judgement to the claimant based on that agreement document you posted up earlier in the thread.

 

 

You need to read up on cases where rulings have been passed down from the higher courts -

these act as 'authority' on certain points which may have previously been subject of interpretation. s.127(3) of the CCA is one particular point

and it is important where pre-April 2007 agreements are concerned.

 

Start with reading HSBC v Carey. This is a key case upon which you will get a good understanding of how you can challenge the enforceablilty of the agreement.

 

My prediction is that you'll challenge the legibility and incompleteness of the agreement produced by J&P

and they'll swiftly counter by producing a recon version.

It's all a bit of a game of trying to trap you, but you can back them into a corner if you can understand where the weaknesses are.

 

 

I and others will help you along the way, but it's essential that you read up on this.

You'll eventually have to state your case in front of a judge

- sounds daunting, but just try to enter into this little journey with the attitude of being willing to learn

and you'll find it much easier that you might think right now.

[shamrocker]

Carey is pretty heavy going so I'd just stick to that for now - then cross reference with relevant sections of the CCA - http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1974/39/contents. This case is more focused on the enforceability of reconstituted agreements but it will give you a good grounding on the subject of the agreement - but my guess is that they'll produce a recon at some stage anyway.

 

You'll be relying heavily on Carey, so I'd suggest reading it several times. Perhaps skim over it a bit at first and you'll see bits that will be quite relevant. It'll be easier to read through the whole thing and take more in after a few goes at it.

 

Don't get too worried about it. You have plenty of time to get your head around things. Just out of interest, how would it affect your financial situation if you were to lose this case?

 

Sham

[shamrocker]

Yes, you will be able to make some form of payment plan - however, the amount being claimed is quite a lot so I couldn't say for sure how much they'd expect you to pay. Ultimately, you can only pay what you can afford. Do you own your own property?

 

You'll probably receive some Without Prejudice offers from J&P at some stage - my guess, being for around the account balance of £17k. It's up to you how you wish to play it. You can go back to them with a counter offer and see if they'll accept it. It just depends how much you're up for the fight and want to take the risk involved with going to court. This will probably be allocated to Fast Track so the winner in the case can also claim for costs (probably £3-5k on their side!)

 

They'll probably apply for Summary Judgement at some stage too. This might come first and then a WP offer - I can't remember how they played it with me.

 

Ultimately, this is a winnable case in my view. My guess is they won't have the original, but it's down to you to demonstrate that the court can not enforce the agreement without sight of the fully compliant and properly executed original copy (you need to read up and find out what constitutes a properly executed agreement). From reading other forum threads, you'll see that 'judge lottery' comes into play, but if you can get can create a good legal argument and deliver it through your witness statements and also in court, you should have every chance of walking away successful.

 

In the first instance, a strong witness statement will probably act as a signal of intent and might get the claimant to think through their position more carefully. That's where I'd be focusing my efforts for the moment. Ask for help on here any time - but read Carey and also get reading some threads involving MBNA and PRA/Aktiv Kapital - there'll be some example witness statement's posted there to give you an idea of what you should be aiming for.

 

Edit to add: Can you post up the CPR reply again - see advice from DX above before you post it.

 

Sham

[shamrocker]

I lost unfortunately - £22k after costs. Wish I knew then what I know now. Hindsight, eh! ;-)

[shamrocker]

Mahul - this is exactly as I predicted, except that their offer is lower than what I expected. You will need to have your head well and truly screwed on to win this, so it may be worth giving serious consideration to their offer. You may be able to get it down a bit by countering with a sensible offer of your own.

 

As I understand it, to get anywhere with the court, you need to make a 'positive assertion' that the agreement is not compliant. You cannot simply say that the claimant needs to produce a 'true copy', recon isn't acceptable, etc. We can help you to a fair degree, but there are no guarantees.

 

You can probably expect a Summary Judgement application to come next.

 

Sham