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    • He was one of four former top executives from Sam Bankman-Fried's firms to plead guilty to charges.View the full article
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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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Repossession questioned by deeds not being signed


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A couple of days ago Enficer posted (since been removed) a memorandum that was submitted to the Treasury Select Committee. Enfircer referred to it as 'interesting reading'.

 

The memorandum was only half of the story, you should google what happened in the outcome of the author of that memorandum's own possession proceedings.

 

The whole picture may not be a nice picture but it is better to look at the whole picture and not just a little part of of it.

 

Ben

 

For anyone who wants to look for this it was a memorandum of carmel butler (lawyer).

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Good Morning Everyone,

 

To clarify my previous response to Jo (apologies for the sharpness of my response)

 

It is not and never was "your mortgage". The problem is that we are used to saying we have a mortgage with such and such bank or I have a mortgage with Bank x etc. The use of term mortgage is used incorrectly and explains why a lot of fanciful ideas are eventually disproven.

 

A borrower grants a mortgage to the lender as security for a loan. To be clear, the borrower gives the lender a mortgage. Once given to the lender, the lender is the owner of that mortgage and as such is recorded by the Land Registry as the proprietor of the charge.

 

As the owner of the charge, the lender is free (subject to any term to the contrary) to sell or dispose of the charge as it sees fit.

 

Case law clearly confirms beyond any possible confusion that a lender is at law also free (subject to the contrary) to assign the debt to a 3rd party.

 

If you look at other websites you start to see the problems with these types of arguments. One site which heavily promoted the whole void deed issue, still provides its members with a copy of the Lamb case from January 2013, in the full knowledge that in a subsequent case Lamb lost.

 

Before it's forum settings changed (recently) there was never any mention of this.

 

If you look at another site that promoted this concept and that of the POA argument. It offers free membership, yet when you sign up, you have to pay for template letters.

 

CAG is far superior to those websites in that it does not charge, merely seeks a donation and to more a degree allows the freedom to discuss loses and potential loses.

 

Least we forget, two cases were heard by the Property Chamber last week. It would appear by Is It Me?'s post (he is still waiting) that neither of the two cases were one of his friends.

 

The chamber has indicated and it's rules permit that the decision of those hearings could be applied to other applications, including that of Is It Me?'s friend.

 

In closing look at some of the other threads - Marika's for example, she tried the deed route and the POA argument. In much the same way as previously posted by PJ the Judge was not interested and dismissed those arguments.

 

If they are having to pay once they have registered on the site then they are not on the right website.

asking for a donation is just a posh word for asking for payment you are still receiving monies whether it be payment requested or donation.

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If they are having to pay once they have registered on the site then they are not on the right website.

asking for a donation is just a posh word for asking for payment you are still receiving monies whether it be payment requested or donation.

 

Just to add i do not disagree with donations its upto the individual if they want to pay for getting valuable info they need.

There is a wealth of information on the internet for free.

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There is no obligation for anyone on CAG to make a donation to us. In fact, very few do. You'll never see any of the site team tryand long arm people in to doing so.

 

CAG does, however, cost a lot of money to run - which is why we've had to result to the Google ads. It wasn't something we wanted to do at all.

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There is no obligation for anyone on CAG to make a donation to us. In fact, very few do. You'll never see any of the site team tryand long arm people in to doing so.

 

CAG does, however, cost a lot of money to run - which is why we've had to result to the Google ads. It wasn't something we wanted to do at all.

 

We are diverting of the thread now sorry about that,I would also like to thank ben for his fatherly advice as Jotho put it.

 

Here is a link to the memorandum.

 

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200809/cmselect/cmtreasy/144/144w273.htm

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Sorry if I have this wrong as I was browsing and noticed the CCA mentioned, if the discussion on here is in regard to first charge mortgages they are exempt from the CCA of course as per section 16 of the act, as said I have not read the whole thread so forgive me if the information is not relevant.

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Hi jotho i understand what your saying the lender is not telling you the truth what is the truth is they do not do anything under your name

it is under the POA itself that you gtanted them it is this you need to revoke with them and also if you do do this make sure the insurance and acting solicitors get revoked to.

once this is done you can request to see any document they have then.Don't forget to get it witnessed by a notory public.

Having watched the spanish white rabbit could you please tell me to ben where he is wrong on the POA?

 

Hi there. I'm not sure I understand your last question. In the situation I am in, facing eviction, I am naturally looking at every case where possession has been avoided. I came across one where the lender was asked if they had securitised the loan and they got a sacrificial young trainee to make the witness statement saying no they hadn't. When the lie was found out the case was thrown out.

 

I remembered White Rabbit saying they need the PoA to securitise. My lender has said they haven't used mine. No way have they not securitised the debt. We are talking NR at the height of their game. As my case involves fraudulent documents I am looking for any extra, unconnected back up to discredit them. If White Rabbit is correct, I can show them to be liars. If he is not correct, I can't. That's all. It's not a strategy and has nothing to do with what is being discussed here. I just can't find the answer anywhere and thought I'd try Ben. Please don't anyone get distracted with any of this. It was just a one off question. It doesn't matter. I greatly value your advice re. revoking it though and will get on to it pronto. Thanks.

 

And Ben, I know we all talk backwards about mortgages as in "I have a mortgage with...." instead of "I have granted a mortgage to..." but I don't think this is an issue really - just a habit they have instilled in us. It doesn't change reality, just designed to make us feel beholden.

Jo

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Hi one and All...

 

I have read the posts with interest ; )

 

Look..... there are no statutory provisions upon which any borrower can rely to grant any lender a 'mortgage'......I still say and will say again; 'a 'mortgage' constitutes the entire disposal of a borrowers registered legal estate.

 

A Mortgage of registered land is intended to be and will always be (unless the statute is changed in the UK in regards to land) statutorily intended to be a LEGAL IMPOSSIBILITY!!

 

So, whilst Ben is wholly correct in saying that all borrowers have granted the lender a 'mortgage' and that the lender is the owner of the legal estate - it is not legally intended that this should ever be the case......

 

That's the fight...that's the thrust of the applications being made to the Tribunal.....and so far; we have not been advised that we are wrong......not even after waiting more than 8 mths down the line..........nor even after a notice being received over 7 mths ago minding that the application would be struck out for lack of merit......!!!

 

A possession hearing is over and done with in minutes....not months!!........

 

We must be doing and saying something right ; )

 

Don't forget....for those 'sitting on the fence'....it is only 8 wks before the government commence tan intent to consult to sell off HMLR......read between the lines; and make your own minds up......

 

Thankfully, we set out on this thread to assist Is It Me's friend.....and his application is in........let's hope we get a decision before they sell off HMLR that's all I can say........

 

Apple

[COLOR="red"][B][CENTER]"Errors do not cease to be errors simply because they’re ratified into law.” [/CENTER][/B][/COLOR][B][CENTER] E.A. Bucchianeri[/CENTER][/B]

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Some general info here

 

http://www.legalmortgage.co.uk/#/mortgages-and-charges/4532753525

 

Yes, although in practice, the principal method of securing a loan of money over land is by what is called a charge by deed expressed to be by way of legal mortgage (indeed after the Land Registration Act 2002 came into force on 12th October 2003, this is the only method of creating a mortgage over registered land). Somewhat confusingly, this is called a "Legal Charge". It can be used to charge both freehold and leasehold property. In the case of freeholds, the effect of a legal charge is to give the lender the same protection, powers and remedies as if he had a term of 3000 years. In the case of leaseholds, the charge gave the mortgagee the same rights and remedies as if he had a sub-term one day shorter than the term vested in the mortgagor.

 

A legal charge is charged on the legal estate - that is the whole of the property, and will need to be entered into by the legal owners. It is possible however for one of two or more co-owners to charge what is called their equitable (or beneficial) interest. This is an equitable mortgage - a mortgage of an equitable interest.

 

Technically, a contract for a mortgage (which complies with the requirements of s 2 Law of Property (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 1989) creates an equitable right to call for a legal mortgage and is thus deemed to be an equitable mortgage.

 

Mortgage lenders prefer the security of a legal charge because it gives them a right to possession and sale of the whole property. An equitable mortgage merely gives a remedy - the right to apply to the court for sale of the property in order to realise the borrower's equitable interest.

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES TO COLD CALLERS PROMISING TO WRITE OFF YOUR DEBTS

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Some general info here

 

http://www.legalmortgage.co.uk/#/mortgages-and-charges/4532753525

 

Yes, although in practice, the principal method of securing a loan of money over land is by what is called a charge by deed expressed to be by way of legal mortgage (indeed after the Land Registration Act 2002 came into force on 12th October 2003, this is the only method of creating a mortgage over registered land). Somewhat confusingly, this is called a "Legal Charge". It can be used to charge both freehold and leasehold property. In the case of freeholds, the effect of a legal charge is to give the lender the same protection, powers and remedies as if he had a term of 3000 years. In the case of leaseholds, the charge gave the mortgagee the same rights and remedies as if he had a sub-term one day shorter than the term vested in the mortgagor.

 

A legal charge is charged on the legal estate - that is the whole of the property, and will need to be entered into by the legal owners. It is possible however for one of two or more co-owners to charge what is called their equitable (or beneficial) interest. This is an equitable mortgage - a mortgage of an equitable interest.

 

Technically, a contract for a mortgage (which complies with the requirements of s 2 Law of Property (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 1989) creates an equitable right to call for a legal mortgage and is thus deemed to be an equitable mortgage.

 

Mortgage lenders prefer the security of a legal charge because it gives them a right to possession and sale of the whole property. An equitable mortgage merely gives a remedy - the right to apply to the court for sale of the property in order to realise the borrower's equitable interest.

 

With respect Dodgeball - we have already thrown the concept of mortgaging any registered estate...no matter what ever term it may be expressed on the deed .... out of the equation.

 

I won't repeat the reasons why or the legislation that stands to refute the entire concept of mortgaging registered land. But, trust me; we know that mortgages are a LEGAL IMPOSSIBILITY no matter which way a lender looks to 'shoehorn' it to fit when the land is pre-existing registered land.......It would be a mistake for Borroers in the 'know' to be fooled by the website promoting them as we move applications forward.....

 

Trust me, it is not me that 'disagrees'' with you or the content in the link you posted......it is the LAW that disagrees with you and the content of the link you've posted.

 

We do our best to make sure that all viewers of this thread remain focused. No offence intended and hopefully non will be taken by you ; )

 

Apple

[COLOR="red"][B][CENTER]"Errors do not cease to be errors simply because they’re ratified into law.” [/CENTER][/B][/COLOR][B][CENTER] E.A. Bucchianeri[/CENTER][/B]

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More relevant info here

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1989/34/section/1

 

(2)An instrument shall not be a deed unless—

(a)it makes it clear on its face that it is intended to be a deed by the person making it or, as the case may be, by the parties to it (whether by describing itself as a deed or expressing itself to be executed or signed as a deed or otherwise); and

(b)it is validly executed as a deed by that person or, as the case may be, one or more of those parties.

(3)An instrument is validly executed as a deed by an individual if, and only if—

(a)it is signed—

(i)by him in the presence of a witness who attests the signature; or

(ii)at his direction and in his presence and the presence of two witnesses who each attest the signature; and

(b)it is delivered as a deed by him or a person authorised to do so on his behalf.

(4)In subsections (2) and (3) above “sign”, in relation to an instrument, includes making one’s mark on the instrument and “signature” is to be construed accordingly.

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More relevant info here

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1989/34/section/1

 

(2)An instrument shall not be a deed unless—

(a)it makes it clear on its face that it is intended to be a deed by the person making it or, as the case may be, by the parties to it (whether by describing itself as a deed or expressing itself to be executed or signed as a deed or otherwise); and

(b)it is validly executed as a deed by that person or, as the case may be, one or more of those parties.

(3)An instrument is validly executed as a deed by an individual if, and only if—

(a)it is signed—

(i)by him in the presence of a witness who attests the signature; or

(ii)at his direction and in his presence and the presence of two witnesses who each attest the signature; and

(b)it is delivered as a deed by him or a person authorised to do so on his behalf.

(4)In subsections (2) and (3) above “sign”, in relation to an instrument, includes making one’s mark on the instrument and “signature” is to be construed accordingly.

 

Hi Dogeball

 

You are taking this thread over old ground - Trust me, there is going to be very little that you are likely to find and post up that has not already been considered within over 4,000 contributuory posts so far........

 

I'm losing sight of your intent right now?......

 

 

Apple

[COLOR="red"][B][CENTER]"Errors do not cease to be errors simply because they’re ratified into law.” [/CENTER][/B][/COLOR][B][CENTER] E.A. Bucchianeri[/CENTER][/B]

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Hi Dogeball

 

You are taking this thread over old ground - Trust me, there is going to be very little that you are likely to find and post up that has not already been considered within over 4,000 contributuory posts so far........

 

I'm losing sight of your intent right now?......

 

 

Apple

 

Quite possible but it is a very long thread and forgive me but much of it is made up of opinion and rhetoric, in an attempt to evaluate your argument i am seeking reliable authority.

 

The requirements and legal status of a deed are explained in the last post but one;

The requirement of[ A] signature is in the last post.

 

If there is any legal authority which shows that this is not the case I haven't seen it and would be grateful if it could be presented or represented, just humor me :)

 

Or is there some other argument that is being put forward.

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With respect Dodgeball - we have already thrown the concept of mortgaging any registered estate...no matter what ever term it may be expressed on the deed .... out of the equation.

 

I won't repeat the reasons why or the legislation that stands to refute the entire concept of mortgaging registered land. But, trust me; we know that mortgages are a LEGAL IMPOSSIBILITY no matter which way a lender looks to 'shoehorn' it to fit when the land is pre-existing registered land.......It would be a mistake for Borroers in the 'know' to be fooled by the website promoting them as we move applications forward.....

 

Trust me, it is not me that 'disagrees'' with you or the content in the link you posted......it is the LAW that disagrees with you and the content of the link you've posted.

 

We do our best to make sure that all viewers of this thread remain focused. No offence intended and hopefully non will be taken by you ; )

 

Apple

 

Sorry I mised this post, can I ask to which" law" you refer, and could you link it so I can evaluate it. many thanks :)

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Sorry I mised this post, can I ask which" law" you refer, and could you link it so I can evaluate it. many thanks :)

Dodgeball

Well why not just wait for the chamber to come back and then you will see, I can not feel that this is another case of " no you can't do that or it does not mean that in law " yet we and those that have taken this to the chamber have seen the tricks they have come up with so I say with respect just wait.

We have had people make some good points and some bad but just think we would NEVER have got this far if it was so wrong .

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What I would also say to all those viewing or watching this thread, GET YOUR APPLICATIONS INTO THE CHAMBER ASAP as you are aware the L R is being sold and it will not stop there,

As for those with ACCORD MORTGAGES question the mortgage sale agreement and who owns the mortgage!

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Quite possible but it is a very long thread and forgive me but much of it is made up of opinion and rhetoric, in an attempt to evaluate your argument i am seeking reliable authority.

 

The requirements and legal status of a deed are explained in the last post but one;

The requirement of[ A] signature is in the last post.

 

If there is any legal authority which shows that this is not the case I haven't seen it and would be grateful if it could be presented or represented, just humor me :)

 

Or is there some other argument that is being put forward.

 

 

Hi Dodgeball......

 

You appear to assume that it is case law and authorities derived from case law that provides the "only" legal way forward...o......r the lord forbid..."the law".....this is what common practice does to the mind of man.....however, long before the clever, devious intent of the mastery of 'slight of hand' bestowed upon the unsuspecting public ..... as found in your posts (no offence to you) there was THE LAW.....

 

We have gone back to reliance of the LAW.... not with an intent to undermine case law - but to ensure that it does not stand against the might and thrust of the substantiating law!

 

Can't see anything wrong with that...hopefully you won't either?

 

Check the LAW when there is no case law.... you cant't go wrong....NO Judge is paid and intended to rely on case law alone without first having regard to the LAW!

 

Case LAW is devised by the Manipulation of the law by minds of man - their ability to shoehorn scenario to suit their personal capitalistic objective.....where as the LAW ?.... well.... the LAW is not intended to be manipulated and there is no hiding place within in.....

 

Apple

[COLOR="red"][B][CENTER]"Errors do not cease to be errors simply because they’re ratified into law.” [/CENTER][/B][/COLOR][B][CENTER] E.A. Bucchianeri[/CENTER][/B]

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Hi Dodgeball

 

Are you looking to make an application to the Chamber?

 

Apple

[COLOR="red"][B][CENTER]"Errors do not cease to be errors simply because they’re ratified into law.” [/CENTER][/B][/COLOR][B][CENTER] E.A. Bucchianeri[/CENTER][/B]

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Hi Is IT ME.....

 

Well, given that you are the OP..... there can be no truth better than what you have experienced and KNOW.......

 

so, with respect to you - I for one remain humbled by your experience as being one that has take your friends applciation to the Tribunal based on the LAW....

 

There is no better recommendation IMO....can't think why anyone would veer away from the statutory protections contained in the law really?

 

Apple

[COLOR="red"][B][CENTER]"Errors do not cease to be errors simply because they’re ratified into law.” [/CENTER][/B][/COLOR][B][CENTER] E.A. Bucchianeri[/CENTER][/B]

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Hi Is IT ME.....

 

Well, given that you are the OP..... there can be no truth better than what you have experienced and KNOW.......

 

so, with respect to you - I for one remain humbled by your experience as being one that has take your friends applciation to the Tribunal based on the LAW....

 

There is no better recommendation IMO....can't think why anyone would veer away from the statutory protections contained in the law really?

 

Apple

 

Probably because LAW is more than just statutes so all aspects have to be taken into consideration.

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Dodgeball

Well why not just wait for the chamber to come back and then you will see, I can not feel that this is another case of " no you can't do that or it does not mean that in law " yet we and those that have taken this to the chamber have seen the tricks they have come up with so I say with respect just wait.

We have had people make some good points and some bad but just think we would NEVER have got this far if it was so wrong .

 

Oh I see :)

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Hi Dodgeball......

 

You appear to assume that it is case law and authorities derived from case law that provides the "only" legal way forward...o......r the lord forbid..."the law".....this is what common practice does to the mind of man.....however, long before the clever, devious intent of the mastery of 'slight of hand' bestowed upon the unsuspecting public ..... as found in your posts (no offence to you) there was THE LAW.....

 

We have gone back to reliance of the LAW.... not with an intent to undermine case law - but to ensure that it does not stand against the might and thrust of the substantiating law!

 

Can't see anything wrong with that...hopefully you won't either?

 

Check the LAW when there is no case law.... you cant't go wrong....NO Judge is paid and intended to rely on case law alone without first having regard to the LAW!

 

Case LAW is devised by the Manipulation of the law by minds of man - their ability to shoehorn scenario to suit their personal capitalistic objective.....where as the LAW ?.... well.... the LAW is not intended to be manipulated and there is no hiding place within in.....

 

Apple

 

Sorry what does any of this mean ?

 

I asked for proof of your theories ?

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Hi Is IT ME.....

.

 

There is no better recommendation IMO....can't think why anyone would veer away from the statutory protections contained in the law really?

 

Apple

 

Now we are getting somewhere.somewhere. Just link me to this "statutory protection".

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Hi Dodgeball

 

Are you looking to make an application to the Chamber?

 

Apple

 

??

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Probably because LAW is more than just statutes so all aspects have to be taken into consideration.

 

Good point, ......I appreciate it.... the application has taken this factor into account ; )

 

Apple

[COLOR="red"][B][CENTER]"Errors do not cease to be errors simply because they’re ratified into law.” [/CENTER][/B][/COLOR][B][CENTER] E.A. Bucchianeri[/CENTER][/B]

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