Unfair disciplinary process

[Emmzzi]

that's a pretty standard "buck up" letter to be fair. How long is the action plan for? should be 3 months ish.

 

the main measure of equity is "can about half the people meet the targets consistently". Can they?

 

Be careful. If your wife IS underperfoming she needs support and understanding to get there - not ranty husband - just be careful how you approach this yourself! the best thing to do is meet the targets in whatever (legal) way she can. whuile reviewing if that causes stress and she should be finding a new job.

[Emmzzi]

ps could decide to issue warning? Standard form letter wording. Means nothing about prejudgement of outcome or otherwise.

[Emmzzi]

let's not be bandying about terms that will confuse.

 

Victimisation" has a special, technical, meaning in employment law. It does not have its ordinary day to day meaning of "treating someone unfairly". In an employment law context it means treating someone less favourably than others because that someone has exercised, or intends to exercise, rights under specific legislation.

Thus there is specific statutory provision in the sex, race, disability, sexual orientation, religious and age discrimination legislation outlawing victimisation of employees in specific circumstances - that is treating an employee less favourably than would otherwise have been the case because he has exercised, or intends to exercise, rights under that legislation.

 

Action plans are for people who need to take action. Is that only kids??

[Emmzzi]

You may be thinking of union related activity or raising a formal grievance, neither of which are the case here.

 

Clealry you've had bad bosses in the past. I do get fed up of people tarring all managers with the same brush. I do action plan every single week to accomplish things. It's a simple project management requirement. You have no idea if the action plan is being imposed or discussed. The meeting hasn't even happened yet. You've assumed all fault is on one side and everyone is out to get someone. That is equally childish IME, and one of the main reasons for antagonism and problems in the workplace - no one talks to each other in a reasonable way because they are all paranoid!

[Emmzzi]

My point is there is a specific legal definition of victimisation, which this activity does not meet.

 

What do you do with an underperformer if they won't buy into any kind of plan then? I put them on a plan anyway so later I have grounds for sacking them. If they won't work with me, I'm not having them drag the rest of the team down! There's a balance between team task and individual and if the individual won't or can't do the task and isn't acting like part of the team.... It's been 50/50 IME. The action plan process helps about half to perform well. It helps me get rid of the other half. Sometimes to other jobs we have that are more suited. Sometimes externally (I help with their cv). Sometimes no job is suitable.

[Emmzzi]

As I always say... I can be fluffy or I can tell you the truth. Only one of these things is of practical use.

[Emmzzi]

This depends how you define success. For me its getting the work done. For you it's about the individual. Your approach takes a long time to work with no guarantees. Often I don't have time for that kind of spoon feeding.

[Emmzzi]

And I expect I am also going to hell for it. In a hand cart.

[Emmzzi]

under 2 years service, 14 page letter of rebuttal and not pregnant - realistically, no chance.

 

Unfair, but best thing was to quietly take an action plan while looking for a new job. If they have decided she is out - then she is out, in a company of yes men.

[Emmzzi]

They are an employer looking for quiet compliance and your wife has demonstrated she is not the compliant type by not saying "yes, thank you for the action plan" and by handing in a frankly HUGE document arguing her case.

 

In employment there usually comes a time where you choose the safe path or the morally just path, and the just path seldom means you keep your job. (Most of my debates on here are ethics versus pragmatism.)

 

In the first 12 months (after April, 24) the employer can just say "sorry, it isn't working out" as long as they give the required notice. So as long as it is not because she is disabled, a certain religion, etc - yes, it is legal.

[Emmzzi]

If you have no proof of a pre-made decision you have no case

If you have no evidence of racism or sexism you have no discrimination

 

Thinking it is not enough, you need proof - witness statements, documents, etc.

 

The question is what is best for your wife - fighting what is probably a fruitless case, or moving on to the next challenge?

[Emmzzi]

altobelli, you are basing most of your arguement on a definition of victimisation which I believe to be incorrect, as no formal complaint process was used. Please provide a link to a UK based employment law site which supports your definition and prove me wrong!

 

No more long theories - just a link please!

Edited November 12, 2012 by Emmzzi

[Emmzzi]

i) This complaint against your wife was only raised after she raised concerns about the workload to the partner. - but did not formally complain so no legal vitimisation

 

ii) Your wife should speak to the head partner and make her case clear, frankly the more detailed her defense is the better. - 14 pages pf clear did not help, you suggest more?

 

iii) The partner has said that she doesn't have time to train your wife. - and the partner is under no obligation to, this is a non starter

 

iii) Is your wife a qualified accountant? If she is, the relevant accountancy body may be able to give some advice or provide mediation. - seriously, no, they won't.

 

iv) Your wife was switched from over-performing to under-performing. Why? - because the partner has taken a dislike to her, but not in a way that can be proven to be because of a protected characteristic, Non starter.

 

v) You might be able to look at wrongful dismissal. This would be via the county court and would be a claim based on breach of contract. - that would apply if the wrong notice period were given...

 

vi) In some jobs, and accountancy is probably one of these, if an unfair dismissal could lead to such a loss of reputation that your wife might find it difficult to get a job in the same industry, then you can go to court to get an injunction which would prevent the firm from terminating the contract. - it's jus a "this didn;t work out." What you are talking about is for allegations of fraud.

 

I am exhausted reading this. There is no case. It's not fair, but there is no case!

 

I'm done.

[Emmzzi]

It can be as simple as "it's not working out."

 

They do not need a proper reason.

 

What evidence do you have of racism?

[Emmzzi]

Any appeal will usually be heard by someone senior to the person presiding over the original dismissal.

 

I would be amazed if the most senior person did not already know and condone the actions taken however.

 

you certainly don't need to invent racism to get your stated desired next step. If anything that will make it even more certain she will not get reinstated, a decent reference, etc.

 

Just appeal. Keep it simple.

[Emmzzi]

through lying, it seems.

 

if you want to take the moral high ground you need water tight morals yourself.

[Emmzzi]

clearly there is no interest in actually understanding the law on this one.

 

I'm out, enjoy your paper chase.

[Emmzzi]

altobelli, nice theories

 

1. please find half a dozen documented cases where an acountancy body has intervened in such circumstances; I know of none but am happy to be educated

 

2, please provide an example or two of where an ET has succeeded due to discrmination at the stage of disiplinary proceedings *only*

 

without robust case law and audit trails everything you say is just what you "reckon", which is no basis to embark on a stressful path.

[Emmzzi]

So, not one actual example then. All stuff "you reckon". Just checking.

[Emmzzi]

I get the feeling the OP has given up and we are having an academic arguement with ourselves.

 

Msybe we should stop until more advice is sought?