Is the bank taking your Benefits ?

[Perseus]

My mum has had a similar problem, her and my Dad used to have a joint account with LTSB (or the toytown bank as we call them)...they were treated awfully and moved accounts, because my Mum is disabled and housebound my Dad opened the account with A&L in hos sole name as it was quicker at the time... my mum tried to add her name on recently as she had been sent a chq and they wouldn't let my Dad pay it in,...they have said that she cannot be named on the account and they will not do anything to help her as she does not 'bring' anything to the account....despite the fact her DLA is paid into the said account.... I might add that my Mum and Dad have also had a mortgage with A&L in joint names for 19 years.... they did say that if my Dad dies then that's okay and she can be added... she's absolutely fuming ... they made out as though she had no right to my Dad's wages.... that's surely none of their business... what about when she was a housewife and bringing me up?!? Does that mean that all wives who don't work... therefore don't have the right to spend their husband's wages?!? no... I think it's discrimination against disabled ppl. I wouldn't mind either but she has two credit cards in her name that she has run perfectly, neva missed a payment... so they cannot say she has no credit score (although they have tried to say that too)... and although that opens up a whole other can of worms with regards to CCard companies issuing cards to people who clearly cannot afford them on their own (she is the principal card holder)... I still think that the bank are being completely out of order with the bank account... Any views? I have suggested we write to them and complain?!?

 

Hi pudsters

Thats shocking! And yes on face value it would appear to be discriminatory - but I'm sure they would argue that!.

You state that your mums DLA is paid into that account? In her own name? If that's the case, then surely that could be used a a precedent to pay the cheque in? If there is a local bank, it would be worth your Dad calling in with a letter of authority from your mum to pay the chequ in, and state in that letter, dates that her payments have been paid into your Dads account. If they still refuse, and further refuse to add a second account name - ask them for a statement as to why she cannot be added in lieu of the fact that they are already accepting payments for her into that account. Failing that - is it possible (just to get over that hurdle) to get the person raising that cheque, to re-send another in your fathers name.

Failing that - I really don't know what to suggest. If her application to be added to the account is refused on lack of income to the account - maybe a reminder of the DLA premium paid in would sway their mind?

 

Good luck.

Perseus

[Perseus]

 

What if they ignore my right of appropriation though? I can't afford to have another lot of benefits taken yet again. I feel as if I'm talking to a load of muppets when I phone - they just do not listen. I'm so angry I could scream.

 

 

Hi Purejane

 

In the meantime, and before any more benefits are paid into your account, contact which ever dept pays your money in - advise them that despite warning your bank, they are seemingly flouting the social security act and appropriating your benefits to pay unlawful charges - and request that the dept pays you by giro whilst you set up a post office benefit account (it can take upto 2 weeks to set up!). If they umm and err - tell them that you are being left with no means to support your family, and you are now in desperation. They should agree, and maybe even offer assistance in clawing back your benefits from them (or at least contact the bank for you!).

It's certainly worth a try, and if you do have to argue further, it's recorded with FTC/Income support/DLA/DWP whichever.

 

All the best

 

Perseus

[Perseus]

Tide - thanks for your reply.

 

What if they ignore my right of appropriation though? I can't afford to have another lot of benefits taken yet again. I feel as if I'm talking to a load of muppets when I phone - they just do not listen. I'm so angry I could scream.

 

I understand that you're frustrated with this situation - I would strongly reccommend contacting the agency that pay your benefits - and tell them what has happened so far - ask them to provide you with a giro for your next payments until your post office account is sorted.

It's the quickest way I can think of to avoid losing your money whilst you're waiting for the Post Office account.

 

Good luck, let us know how you get on ok?

 

P

[Perseus]

Don't forget to add the recent charges to your claim!

Also - are you claiming interest back on those charges?

 

Perseus

[Perseus]

Surprise and Purejane

 

Sorry to hear that you're still getting bombarded... Have you kept informing the agencies that pay the benefits. They too can add pressure, especially if they continue to add charges after being notified/complaining.

You could also call your local trading standards office, and ask for their advice.

Don't let up on them - I know it's easier said than done, it's stressful, time consuming and bloody frustrating, but you cannot let your guard down for one moment.

 

Keep going

All the best

Pers

[Perseus]

I personally think, because there is a 'claim-back' culture growing against them, they'll try and recover money in any way they can.

Don't forget - they have the upper hand, they have immediate access to your money. They won't be worried that you're chasing it to be refunded, that takes days/weeks....They've earned interest by then.

 

My other half had a problem with Alliance & Leicester, she's on bebefits...opened a NatWest account, got it confirmed within 1 hour, cards/cheque book 4 days, card activation 2 days after.

They couldn't have been nicer.

 

Speak to all the agencies, the Trading Standards, CAB if you'd like but TS will advise just as well, and send a letter after, addressed the the Branch Manager stating your full complaint, the who-said-what-and-when details, enclose a copy of the appropriation letters you've submitted, and copy and print off the Social Security act and letter at the start of this thread.

Then give him/her 5 working days to respond favourably, returning all the charges.

Just as a side note - have you both got your SAR details yet?

 

If so - and your parachute accounts are open and ready, stick it to 'em and get those letters of reclaim going asap.

If not, warn the manager that if they are not complied with by the 40 days (or 5 working days) you'll be going to court to request an order for them to comply.

 

Chin up

 

P

[Perseus]

So the amount you've requested - is it a lot or a few hundred? sorry to be nosey, it might give a gauge as to whether they will wait for you to file proceedings before an offer is made!

 

In your letter - have you included a schedule of charges, and if so, included a claim for contractual interest?

 

If you've had any communication from a manager/senior customer service person etc, it might be worth a call before the 11th, just to ask them if they are going to respond to your letter!

One of two things may happen, 1 - yes and we'll see you incourt (which you won't, just gotta go through the rigmorole), 2 - so what is it you are actually looking for Mrs Surprise?

 

Just stick to the contents of that letter. Any comments, ask for a response in writing within the time frame allowed. Warn them if not, you will pursue the case at county court.

 

As you said, just a waiting game now (chicken) who'll back down first? NOT YOU!!!!

 

All the best

P

[Perseus]

I don't mind you being nosey. Its only £325.00 + this other £35.00 but bearing in mind benefits haven't been paid that only into the bank about 3 years so this is only 3 years of charges. I didn't add interest but I will put 8% on if it goes to Court. I think that is my understanding. I thought if i didn't add interest they would be more likely to pay. .

 

Surprise---- If you receive no joy with your current letter, you could re-consider adding contractual interest...after all -- they charged the account overdraft interest didn't they?

Mutuality and reciprocity prevails!

 

 

Waiting game indeed, my bank made us wait, the excuse from the branch Manager when he phoned persoanally was that the letter had went through "a few" different departments. Now why would a letter adressed to "The Branch Manager" both on the envelope and on the letter header need to go anywhere except his in tray is beyond me!

 

Now I just gotta find out who tried helping themselves to my cash from my new account with another bank via an unauthorised DD, Ive got the cash back instantly when I called the bank but thats besides the point.

 

Might be worth asking the bank to start an investigation.

 

P

[Perseus]

I did, they said since the money was grabed back instantly by them then thats that. Apparently they only investigate if the DD goes through and is already out of the account, mine was just in the process and I noticed pretty quick 40 quid was missing cos I had put cash in the account for a wekend aways spending money so it was all worked out how much I had.

 

I contacted the cops but they said the bank had to raise the matter with them too. Ive been told its a DCA yet cant find anything on them at all, Id love to know how they got all my details and if they are trying to collect fraudulently on a BR debt, im waiting on printouts from the bank of the companies details too, so I should know more when they come.

 

Its bad when people can just add you account details and name to a DD mandate and grab cash out your account, thing is ive never given those account details to anyone, everything here is cross cut shredded before being binned.

 

I will be getting another account tho as im not too impressed by Barclays attitude to attempted theft.

 

Under the Direct Debit guarantee - the bank branch are responsible for an immediate refund in this situation. Please see the link for full details Direct Debit - Your rights .

 

 

 

She has just telephoned and said that if I go down to the branch they will give me my benefits over the counter. She said this will then put me overdrawn again but she will make sure I am not charged for this.

 

I couldn't believe it!!! I was all geared up for a fight in the branch. I was even dreaming about it last night it stressed me out that much!!.

 

Surprise - now you know whats happened with me it shows that Banks can be bullied into backing down - don't give up.

 

A load of bundles of statements have just arrived in the post and I will be doing my letter to ask for all my charges back today.

 

Many thanks to all of you for your help. Its much appreciated.

 

Just remember to use a spreadsheet that will include contractual interest on it!

You've no doubt paid overdraft interest on those charges - claim 'em back!

Good result tho re refund.

 

All the best to both

Perseus

[Perseus]

Hi Jadzia

 

I would write to the bank (I am assuming you have the details requested under a SAR request - if not, that should be done ASAP), and request immediate repayment of all charges (or balance there-of) along with contractual interest. Use the arguement that the full and final settlement was agreed in ignorance of the information you have now been made aware of. Namely - the Social Security Act 1992 - section 187, which is and has been notified to banks, and agreed with Letters between Secretary of State and British Bankers Association chief executive regarding difficulties of people obtaining direct payments because of banking problems Letters between Secretary of State and British Bankers Association chief executive regarding difficulties of people obtaining direct payments because of banking problems : Department of Health - Publications and statistics

This is a copy of the communication.

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt/36790-bank-taking-your-benefits-2.html#post399685 this contains a great template letter to send along /as your reclaim letter.

 

Here's the act

 

Social Security Administration Act 1992

Miscellaneous

Certain benefit to be inalienable **

 

187- Subject to the provisions of this Act, every assignment of, or charge on-

(a)benefit as defined in section 122 of the Contributions and Benefits Act;

(b)any income-related benefit; or

©child benefit,

and every agreement to assign or charge such benefit shall be void; and, on the bancrupcy of the beneficiary, such benefit shall not pass to any trustee or other person acting on behalf of his creditors.

 

Most definitely pursue the rest of the charges, with interest (contractual), and stand your ground.

What they have done is unlawful in applying punitive charges in the first place. They have compounded this by illegally appropriating the benefits for that purpose.

 

Go for it.

 

All the best

Perseus.

If you need any help drafting the letter - just shout.

I'm sure we'll all come up with something.!

[Perseus]

Im sure you can still claim it back as long as its within the 6yr period and didnt go BR unlike me.

 

Midnight, the 6 year period begins from the date of discovery. You can go back as long as you like.

 

Tide

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/80486-claiming-beyond-6-yrs.html claiming back more than 6 years now! Definitely worth a read...

 

 

Hi guys, when I last wrote on this thread is was to let you all know the bank had finally agreed to settle my benefits claim case. We're about 3 weeks on now and still no money has arrived. As I suffer from mental illness, my husband has power of attorney now over my account - and he rang the complaints team at Bank of Scotland to query where my £1400+ refund was.

 

They claim that I never returned the form, although they had received a letter from me instructing them to settle. They would not process the claim without the form, however on my individual thread in the Halifax/BOS I was advised there not to return their form, to write my own letter. This was because in their form it says I agree to full and final settlement on all of my accounts and at this point in time, one of my other accounts is in dispute so I'd be waving my rights away to that.

 

The bank advisor told my husband that it was a goodwill gesture that they were refunding my money - so my husband said it wasn't goodwill, it was law and quoted the SSA 1992, that they had been taking money unlawfully from a disabled persons account and thats when things went downhill. The advisor got nasty, my husband asked to speak to a supervisor and she said someone would call him back and hung up.

 

I was so close to receiving my settlement I could almost smell it - now it seems the banks dont care about those on benefits, those who are disabled and their staff don't either. I'm at a loss as to where to go from here. For the record, I'm agorophobic and can't go out - the last time I ventured into the bank, I was verbally abused, accused of not being disabled and ended up in tears and having a panic attack at which point they asked me to leave. I feel utterly discriminated against and have no idea where to go from here.

 

L

x

 

Hi Waken.... I'm so sorry to hear the treatment you and your husband have been receiving. It's disgusting, discriminative, degrading and no doubt many others d's too.

I agree with the advice you had re their form regarding full & final on all accounts. That's just a cheap shot to see if you're paying attention.

As for the personal treatment you had when you last visited - my god - is there no morality left?

I've just read your other thread v BOS - don't forget that the overdraft interest they've charged you is immediately reclaimable too (as a direct result of their breach of the SSA).

Don't give up - we're here for you!

I have posted on your other thread.

 

All the best

Perseus

[Perseus]

Hi Trevor,

It would be an expensive exercise I think, and one that the OFT and TS would probably handle and resolve better than a private suit!

 

Once you've submitted your complaint (after exhausting enquiries with your bank of course), the above authorities (along with Social Services, your local council office and Dept of Work and Pensions) will add the relevant pressure and weight to getting your problem resolved.

Like always it will all take time, but a parachute account, moving your benefits into that account and going hell for leather should get the job done.

 

All the best

P

[Perseus]

May I suggest getting an N1 form from your local County Court when you're out....You may need it soon!

It appears that these incompetents only listen when they are threatened with legal action.

 

Good luck Surprise

P

[Perseus]

In effect, the act of taking monies after being warned of the appropriation letter under the SSA92 - is theft.

Theft is a reportable criminal offence.

Yes it is worth a call to the local police station to enquire - can't hurt!

 

If the bank have been forewarned, given notice of the act that secures their funds, and it's all been ignored to the customers detriment, there's certainly a good reason to make an official complaint.

[Perseus]

pliny

I am trying to get the bank to refund £60 of charges due to DWP late payment and cheque bouncing etc.

I know when this occured. I have sent 2 letters so far with only one fob off letter in return. Second letter I quoted SSA act but nothing else.

An umbrella acct. would be good but may not be easy due to credit history.

What is my best approach now and what time scale can I quote.

regards

Trevor

 

First of all, you could try someone like the Natwest! They offer accounts with debit cards for a slightly chequered history. Worth a try.

Send a Letter Before Action with 7 days notice (hand in to your local branch-manager if poss), quoting the SSA92 act, copies of your previous letters, a copy of the communication in the links above re Sec of State and the BBA and demand repayment. If not, be prepared to issued court proceedings for them to comply under that act.

Post your draft letter on here if you'd like, maybe members could offer advice re content!

 

Apparently my daughter was told by the Post Office that she can phone DWP up and ask for a Personal Invitation Document. not sure what this is? perhaps someone can enlighten me. I am hoping its a way of receiving benefits without the thieving baskets getting there first.

The Personal Invitation is to open a Post Office account via the government agency. It can take less time than doing it direct with the PO and pre-approves you for benefit payments. I'm not sure if you can arrange direct debits etc from the basic benefit account(i think it just provides you with a receiving account for your money) but they do have other accounts which have that facility.

Once you receive your Personal Invitation, you take that with ID/utility bill to the PO, they then process - and send you sometime later, 2 forms. 1 is a 'pick up form' to collect your PO card, the other is confirming the account T&C's and activating the card to get the PIN. Sometime after - when the DWP have received that 2nd form from the PO, they start paying the benefits into the account.

You could call the DWP and ask how payments are made in the intrim period (if by Giro etc). That I don't know I'm afraid.

 

P

[Perseus]

You're both welcome, just keep your chin up and stand your ground!

 

All the best

P

[Perseus]

Appreciated Tide - and agreed, I may offer advice, but even I need help! lol

 

Thank you

 

P

[Perseus]

Hi, I posted earlier in this thread about the bank taking my benefits. My son has been very ill and I haven't had the chance to write to them(the bank) regarding this issue. This morning I received a letter telling me I am now £140 overdrawn and that they intend to withdraw my banking facilities and unless I pay up by the 20th of this month they will pass my case n to a debt collector.

I'm almost certain that they must give you 30 days notice of account closure. It will be in their terms & conditions, but I hope someone can confirm on here.

The 140 is purely charges as I paid back the mere pounds I owed them months ago and as I can't afford to pay these charges I was wondering if you could help me with a letter to send them? It's all very confusing at the best of times let alone when I haven't slept for more than three hours at a time in weeks!

I think you need to start a thread of your own - which bank are you with? I can help with a link to start one, and advise on letter content too (as I am sure will others...)

 

Any help you could give me would be greatly appreciated!

 

Also, I've got my N1 form from the county court, after A&L have completely ignored my two letters I'm going to start proceedings(including asking for the interest back). I've looked on the forum as what to write in the form, I'm not sure how I'm going to get all that information into the little boxes provided but I shall try today! Thanks for the moral support!

 

Again, with your own thread, any details like 'POC' etc cnan be advised directly on your own thread.

"Together we'll crack 'em"

[Perseus]

Surprise

It's good you've had a response, at least it's not a 'bog off' letter.

I personall would write to whomever sent you that letter, special del if you can (gauranteed next day) and advise that they have till monday next (one woking week) to reply or else you will submit the N1 you have , ready and completed, to be filed at your (insert name) County Court (insert address).

That way, you've given them ample time, you control the delay, and they know you are prepared for business.

 

Just my opinion.

All the best

Pers

[Perseus]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/newthread.php?do=newthread&f=47

 

Hi 1234,

The link above will take you directly to the Alliance and Leicester section on the main CAG Bank Charges forum.

 

Just enter your own thread title (ie 1234 vs A&L) or something...

Enter the brief history of your case, the communications you've had and where you are with the claim now.

Any questions, ask away on that thread - you'll get specific help to the company you're dealing with from members used to their ways...

 

The POC I stated, is the Particulars of Claim. This is the information requested when you fill in the N1 form through the courts.

In it, you state who the claim is against, why, what for, how you're claiming and how much, and why etc...

Again, if you need help with the N1, ask away.

 

Hope this helps,

 

perseus

 

P.s. you're not being a pain, thatss why this forum exists...self help, and helping others.

 

You'll be fine!

[Perseus]

Nice one surprise...

Remeber tho, keep to your timescale as well.

If the FOS send a reply in 2 weeks, it can be used as support, rather than waiting... could take longer than you want.

 

P

[Perseus]

1234 - hold tight.

I'm going to get some others to look in on this thread, and advise re a letter.

 

It really would be best to start your own thread asap.

That way we can handle each members case in their own section.

 

Please let me know when you've done that, and I'll ask a Moderator to move your posts over. Then we can get cracking ok!

 

p

[Perseus]

Hello all

I am about to send my prelim letter and spreadsheet off and was going to send this letter off, (see below). I just thought it might give me a better chance of getting my benefits back without ending up using the legal route? I was wondering if somebody could please take a look at it for me, (grammar and letter construction not my strong point:oops:) to check for correct wording, layout, grammar etc. I keep reading it but just feel that something isn't right with it, namely the first paragraph?

 

The letter is a mixture of my own words and some of the other letters on this thread. Feel free to change/edit it or tell me if it needs changing.

 

Also could somebody help me with where in my letter i could add the Right of Appropriation template bit, that's at the beginning of the thread. I just don't know where i can work it into my letter. God i'm rubbish. No you're not!

 

Any help much appreciated...

I hope you don't mind....

 

 

Dear Bank Manager of local branch.

 

I must bring to your attention that from January 2006, the only source of income paid into my account numbered above, is Disability Living Allowance, paid by the Department of Works and Pensions every 28 days.

I have obtained information that a number of penalty charges have been applied to my account over the last 6 years or so, and have continued to be deducted from the above account from my DLA payments.

The appropriation of these benefits is in contravention to the Social Security Administrations Act 1992 section 187 (as detailed below), and such payments are clearly marked as originating from the DWP along with my national insurance number.

 

As it is unlawful for you to appropriate such benefits in order to deduct your penalty charges to my account, I am requesting an immediate refund of all charges from January 2006 to date. The taking of my benefit has left me without the facility to pay for appropriate care for my disability, bills, utilities and food - the precise reason for these payments by the government.

 

With regard to the unlawful appropriation of benefits. It is a matter of public record that there has been correspondence between the Secretary of State and the British Bankers Association chief executive regarding this matter. I enclose copies of correspondence in support of my request.

If a refund of all charges is not actioned within/by close of business 5 (five) days after receipt of this letter, I will pursue a County Court claim for their return, inform the Dept of Work and Pensions that my benefits continue to be mis-appropriated by you, and will contact my local Trading Standards, and newspaper to see if they would be interested in such an abuse of your fiduciary position.

I also enclose a letter 'Right of Appropriation' in accordance with the act below, along with my request for the return of previous, unlawfully applied penalty charges.

I look forward to your urgent response,

 

Yours faithfully

 

Ms Amber...

 

 

SOCIAL SECURITY ADMINISTRATIONS ACT 1992

187- Subject to the provisions of this Act, every assignment of, or charge on-

(a) benefit as defined in section 122 of the Contributions and Benefits Act;

(b) any income-related benefit; or

© child benefit,

and every agreement to assign or charge such benefit shall be void; and, on the bankruptcy of the beneficiary, such benefit shall not pass to any trustee or other person acting on behalf of his creditors.

 

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt/36790-bank-taking-your-benefits-5.html#post522407

This will also give you a link to the post that contains letters to and from the British Bankers Assosciation about this.

You could print out and include these to "refresh their memory".

Print out the right of appropriation letter as follows too as a separate letter.

 

RIGHT OF APPROPRIATION

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

ACCOUNT NUMBER: xxxxxxxxx

 

I am writing to inform you that I am due to have a Disability Living Allowance payment of £xxx paid into my account on xx/xx/xx, and I wish to use my first right of appropriation for this money, for the following purposes;

Rent £xx

Utilities bills £xx

Housekeeping money £xx

I will withdraw the money on the day that it is deposited for the above use, and I would be grateful if you would ensure that any other payments out of my account do not interfere with this withdrawal.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

[signature]

 

[print name)

 

And finally.... enclose your prelim letter for the return of all charges, with a not that they include post jan06 info (which will be removed on their refund as above).

 

Sorry for a long reply, hope it all makes sense?

 

All the best

Perseus

(Hope you don't mind the re-word!)

[Perseus]

Ok, maybe I just wanna be a peoples champion and go round bashing companies heads when they rip the a**e out of their customers.

 

You prelim letter is your first warning (as well as a first official request for repayment).

You ask for the the refund , and normally give 14 days notice, warning of court action if no response.

The LBA Letter Before Action is "ok , you're testing my patience now, I really do mean it, pay up in this last 14 days, or I'm off to court..."

 

The urgency of benefit charges refund is that they are immediately and undisputedly refundable. It's clear in law they are not allowed to do that, and your other print outs, confirm the letters sent to and from the BBA etc agreeing this.

I think it is valid to keep the 5 day timescale on them, as it can be handled at branch level. The other charges involve an element of ' well the charges are legal, transparent T&C's, etc, we'll defend that if we can.'

Thats why the 40 days for a SAR, 14 days for prelim and LBA's etc.

 

The choice is yours. Those benefit refunds should be and can be done very quickly by the branch manager. There's no reason why (and why should you) wait any longer than absolutely necessary for them.

 

Newspapers....up to you...just ranting a bit for you I think...maybe it's an option to be followed up if they take too long for the refund!

 

All the best

 

pers

[Perseus]

hi James

have you sent the right of appropriation letter, and/or sorted a parachute account or diverted your benefit payments yet?

 

Are you talking about the ssa1992 and right of appropriation?

 

If the local branch manager is presented with a copy of the wording of s187 of the act, and copies of the letters as above to and from patricia hewitt and the bba, and still does not agree, then maybe you would receive support from:-

 

The agency thats pays your benefit, ie DWP/DSS/etc

Office of Fair Trading local officer-they may not take individual action but will compile a report and file, in case of any other complainants.

Local CAB office - they may assist/call on your behalf

Local MP

Financial Ombudsman Service - make a call, don't wait for response to an email or a letter.

County Court - sometimes they will only listen to a legal order.

File a claim using the N1 form, for breach under s187, keep any copies of correspondence to and from, including as many details of any face-to-face visits or telephone calls.

 

You can get them to acknowledge this, it just takes some resolve, and being prepared to fight for it. All the time they don't acknowledge the regulations, they keep your money. When thats threatened , they'll sit up and take note.

 

 

Pers.