Cap1 & CCA return

[alisindebt]

Hi

 

I am a new member. I wanted to post a new thread, but do not know how???? I am registered as a basic member.

 

Sorry to jump in on this thread, but i could not see any other of getting this info other than by asking.

 

Many thanks for your help.

Edited May 19, 2009 by alisindebt
Hi, you have given me the information that i need, so no need forr any more posts on this thread. Thanks very much!

[alisindebt]

Hi

 

As I said in my part of the thread, I am not a Lawyer and I am certainly familiar with secured lending and therefore cannot comment on that aspect of CCAs. I engaged the services of a Lawyer to advise on the enofrceability of my unsecured loan CCA, I was told that it was not enforceable and when i sent a letter to CapQuest debt collectors they replied in writing that they did not have a "true copy of the original CCA".

 

This does not, however, wipe the debt out, it just means that they cannot enforce it through the courts. so yes, you can further DCAs chasing-the debt could be sold on again.

 

However, look at threads that talk about harassment, threats, intimidation, etc and i think you will find plenty of information and template letters there to use in these circumstances. Let's be logical, anyone who keeps pestering you payment on an unenforcceable debt has got too be backing a loser.

 

Wiith DCAs, keep cool and calm , appear the politest person ever to be in debt and over time they will drop themselves in it big time!

 

So I guess what is being said here is that the creditor can hound you forever, whether it gets paid or not is another matter. What about s.106(d) CCA '74 then in the case of secured lending:

 

s.106. Where, under any provision of this Act, this section is applied to any security provided in relation to a regulated agreement, then, subject to section 177 (saving for registered charges),--

(a) the security, so far as it is so provided, shall be treated as never having effect;

(b) any property lodged with the creditor or owner solely for the purposes of the security as so provided shall be returned by him forthwith;

© the creditor or owner shall take any necessary action to remove or cancel an entry in any register, so far as the entry relates to the security as so provided;

and

(d) any amount received by the creditor or owner on realisation of the security shall, so far as it is referable to the agreement, be repaid to the surety.

 

Written off? - Who cares?

[alisindebt]

Hi

 

As I said, I am not a lawyer, but I took legal advice. As it happens, I got it for free.

 

By the way, a point I have missed in my earlier post is to bluff i.e. For God's sake, don't actually tell them why the CCA is unanforceable, in your (or your Solicitor's opinion). Use a standard letter that simply says that they have not provided you with a true copy of the original CCA. Once it is in dispute, it is the job of the DCA to prove that it is correct, not you. Once in dispute you do not have to make any payments, nor can they demand any, nor can they add interest to the account i.e. dispute for a long time and the account is on hold.

 

Additionally, when you state that "I'm also not sure that debts can be sold on without a properly executed agreement", I agree. Use a template letter and ask for a copy. I never got a copy from any of my creditors, maybe i will use that in the future if I need to. You can ask for a copy at the same time that you request the CCA or SARS.

 

Put it this way. If you owed your credit card company 10 thousands pounds and the account went into default and some guy in a scruffy plastic mac appeared on your door step to claim the money owed to them, would you give him the cash?

 

Of course not, so why would you just pay it straight to a DCA who hide behind a flashy letterhead or website, that you can have made for a few pounds yourself?

 

It is up to them to prove "ownership" of the debt, not you.

 

Their job is to lie, intimidate and work outside the law.

 

Our job is to stand up to them.

 

That is what I have done and I have won.

 

I am not an expert nor a lawyer.

That's all fine and well, when you know your stuff and can apply your rights.

 

The issue being that most people don't, so would pay up, even if they got as far as having the credit agreement determined to be unenforceable.

 

I'm also not sure that debts can be sold on without a properly executed agreement.

[alisindebt]

I fully understand your point of view. however, as i understand it, and as I said earlier, I am not a lawyer, just because there is no CCA, does not mean that the debt does not exist. That is why various DCAs can chase you over the coming years. However, they cannot enforce the repayment, they can just try and give you enough stress to try and make you pay.

 

Personally, I think it is easier to have a "get lost" template letter that says you will not enter into a dialogue with any of them, rather than try and negotiate over a collectible debt. have a search around and you will find examples of template letter to use for unenforceable CCAs.

 

But that's not the point surely. If the debt never existed in the first place (the logical conclusion from Sir Andrew Morritt's opinion) then it isn't merely unenforceable. It's a figment of the lenders' imagination whether they agree with that or not.

So I am puzzled as to why the Site is endorsing the view that the debt hasn't been written-off.

[alisindebt]

The debt will remain outstanding but it not enforceable.

 

Under the Consumer Credit Act 1974, a judge is not permitted to make any enforcement order unless the creditor can provide a true signed copy of the original credit agreement. This means that unless they can produce such an agreement, the alleged debt is not enforceable in law.

 

OK

So where I am in this is:

- it's clear that the creditor will be in default if they fail to provide a true copy of the executed agreement and the debt will be unenforceable if they cannot provide a signed copy of the original agreement to the Court.

- it may or may not be possible to write the debt off.

Thanks everyone.

[alisindebt]

I can certainly see your point but there is a strange thing here. As I understand it the CCA is unenforcebale and so the creditor cannot take you to court, but somehow the debt still exists.

 

On that basis, anyone should not be surprised over the coming years if the original creditor or any debt collection agency contacts you asking for payment.

 

However, they cannot enforce it and so it is a battle of wills. how long are you prepared to keep getting letters, etc asking for money.

 

Having said that, there are issues such as harassment involved and I suspect that anyone who gets such letters would easily be able to threaten the debt collector with legal action.

 

Personally, if you have an unenforecable agreement, i would make sure that you have a few template letters to quickly and easily fire off at anyone who tries to pursue the debt in the future. The best ones warn them that they will be acting unlawfully if they ask for a payment on an unenforced agreement.

 

Basically, tell them to sod off or face legal proceedings.

 

However, the unenforced agreement will still appear as a debt on your credit file for the duration.

 

Look at it this way ToxicWaste -

 

If the agreement is unenforceable then no contract stands and they should write the debt off. After all, who would ever honour a defective contract if it was not in their favour?

 

The point that you will always have to come back to though is 'should write the debt off' doesn't make them any money. They are a business and they have no interest in following the ethical road, so unless the law is changed to say if there is no binding contract they must wipe the debt off, it isn't going to happen unless you really force their hand or just happen to be lucky (that does happen sometimes!)

[alisindebt]

OK, got it! It's just that i have some people writing to me and they are very upset, sp i was trying to dot the I's and cross the T's!

 

I am glad we agree.

 

I was agreeing with your opinion, you don't need to sell it to me:D:D

[alisindebt]

however, the good thing is this. Once an account is disputed the creditor or debt collection agency is not supposed to ask for payments, nor do you have to make them, nor are they supposed to add interest, until such time that the issue is resolved. If it is an unenforceable debt then it will never be resolved.

 

Therefore if the Chester thing drags on and the banks appeal, as is likely, then it just means you don't pay anything for a long time, if ever, without any further penalties.

 

As an aside, also remeber this. By nature most collections departments and DCAs are staffed by low paid telephone workers in call cnetres. Invariably they still send out threat letters, request payments, etc even on unenforceable CCAs, which is great, because if the case ever got to court you could show unlawful behaviour. only today i have received no less than three emails from CapQuest asking payment on an unenforecable CCA, which they have even written to me and acknowledged as being unenforceable.

 

Keep the letters coming CapQuest!

 

Its where the lender has lost the agreements and admitted the loans are unenforceable but are threatening to report the borrowers to credit reference agencies if they miss any payments. The Borrower is seeking an injunction to prevent the lender from doing this. The issue would appear to be whether or not reporting to credit reference agencies amounts to enforcement action. Given adverse credit scores are the only thing that lenders have left to threaten borrowers with when the agreement is unenforceable, they are throwing everything at it which is why it is likely to be appealed

[alisindebt]

If the CCA is non enforcable, use something like this:

 

Account In Dispute

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Re: my request under s78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

Thank you for your recent letter sent to me dated **DATE**, the contents of which are noted. However, the reply received by me does not fulfil your requirements under the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

The Act demands that I be supplied with a true copy of any properly executed credit agreement that exists in relation to the above account. I may ask for this on demand providing that a fee of £1.00 is paid. This fee was sent with my original letter, dated **DATE**. Upon receipt of the original request the specified account legally entered into disputed status.

 

My request remains outstanding. The supplied documentation does not constitute a true copy of a credit agreement and that which you sent doesn't even contain all the prescribed terms and is not 'properly executed'. The statements sent do not correspond to the amount stated in your earliest correspondence and therefore they do not satisfy the requirement to supply me with a statement of account.

 

As you will know, under the Consumer Credit Act 1974, a judge is not permitted to make any enforcement order unless the creditor can provide a true signed copy of the original credit agreement. This means that unless you can produce such an agreement, this alleged debt is not enforceable in law.

 

You had until **12 days DATE** to provide me with the true copy I requested. After that date you entered into default of my request. Whilst the account is in dispute, you are not permitted to ask for any payment, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you. Furthermore, whilst the dispute remains, you are not entitled to charge any interest on the account, nor make any further charges to the account. Additionally, you are not entitled to register any information on this account with any credit reference agencies (or any third party).

 

To register information with a credit reference agency, you must have written consent from the data subject to collate and share such information. This consent is given in the form of a signed credit agreement, so until you produce such an agreement, you may not do this.

 

The requirement for consent to share data is a clear requirement of the Data Protection Act 1998. Any such attempts to share my data without my consent will be met with a complaint to the Information Commissioners Office.

 

The time limits, which are laid down in the Consumer Credit (Prescribed Periods for Giving Information) Regulations 1983 are clear. You must supply an executed credit agreement within 12 working days of a proper CCA request. If you fail to comply with a legitimate request the account enters a default situation. . You entered into a default on **12 Days DATE**

 

Therefore you have 7 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint, otherwise your conduct will be reported to the Office of Fair Trading, the Financial Ombudsman and Trading Standards. Any investigation undertaken by them may affect your ability to hold a consumer credit license in the future.

 

Take further note that continued telephone calls after the receipt of a request not to call may constitute a criminal offence under Section 127 of the Communications Act 2003.

 

Communicate in writing and ONLY in writing, your telephone calls will NOT be answered.

 

To sum up, I will not be making any further payments to you until you provide me with the document I have requested. Should you not have any signed credit agreement in relation to this alleged debt, please confirm this in writing to me.

 

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

 

I look forward to your reply.

 

Yours faithfully

 

Looking at the template links posted all we seem to have is the first letter to the Lender asking for a true copy of the original agreement. Not too difficult really !

Clearly the next step will depend on the reply received or indeed whether there is any reply. A lot of you guys have successfully been through this minefield already and a lot of case histories are I think posted on this forum. Could anyone recommend any of these cases as representing a 'classic model' of how to take a case forward with for example the right questions to ask as the Lender(s) delay, obfuscate, deceive, cheat etc etc. It would then be incredibly helpful to read through the whole case to see what might be in store and get a few tips.

Also, if we did at some stage want to use legal representation to help reach a settlement, is anyone aware of good solicitors/barristors willing to work on a no win/no fee basis ?

We have 5 Lenders to deal with and a lot of debt to hopefully reduce.

[alisindebt]

Hi

 

As I am not a lawyer, I don't know about the enforceablity of your Contract and you would need to get information from an expert. It is a very different conntract than mine, which are with Egg and are riddled with fault.

 

There are two separate issues. When you ask for a CCA true copy, you send a template letter and one pound. They have to respond within 12+2 days. Personally, I always leave it a bit longer and I always check to see if they have cashed the cheque.

 

Then, if they do not send the information, they are in default. That means no payments, no interest UNTIL they come up with an enforcible CCA.

 

SARS is totally different. Again request using a template letter and send a cheque for 10 pounds, but they do have up to 40 days to do this.

 

Hope this helps.

 

ok - now I am confused - a bit.

 

I sent the original request but did not get the docs within 12 working days. I followed with a dispute follow up letter and subsequently got the docs 19 working days after my request. However M&S sent a letter telling me I was wrong in saying they had only 12 working days and that they had 40 working days to respond.

 

So theres the first confusion for me. Are they in default or not?

 

Secondly - this document I have been sent clearly says its an Application Form along the top then follows in the doc with words around it being a 'credit agreement'. The prescribed terms are there - but the limit and repayment information are on the front and the interest rates are on the back.

 

Is this 'within the body' of the doc??

 

MS_form001.jpg picture by watertrollop - Photobucket

 

Whatever happens - will an SAR letter make any difference?

 

aaarrrrrggghhhh

 

minx

[alisindebt]

Agreed! I recently had a "no reply" from Egg regarding a CCA request and cheque for 1 pound, which they did not cash, for their credit card. I sent them an email on their secure messaging system saying quoting my request and told them I had a copy of a signature and proof of delivery by recoreded international courier.

 

Actually, I didnt have a signature or proof, but Egg are so stupid they believed me and are sending the document direct to me in Taiwan!

 

That's the sort off mentality that you are dealing with.

[alisindebt]

use this ech time. They will keep writing to you but send this once and then don't answer after that, you have nothing else to say:

 

Formal Complaint

Letter before Action

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

With reference to my previous letters, I wish to draw you attention to your company's lack of compliance with my legal request.

 

On **DATE** I made a formal request for a true signed agreement for the alleged account under consumer credit Act 1974 s77/8. A copy of which is enclosed for your perusal and ease of reference.

You have failed to comply with my request, and as such the account entered default on **DATE**.

 

The document that you are obliged to send me is a true copy of the executed agreement that contained all of the prescribed terms, all other required terms and statutory notices and was signed by both your company and myself as defined in section 61(1) of CCA 74 and subsequent Statutory Instruments. If the executed agreement contained any reference to any other document, you are also obliged to send me a copy of that document.

 

As you may not be aware , failure to comply with this request within 12 working days renders the alleged debt UNENFORCEABLE in law.

 

Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY action against an account whilst it remains in dispute.

 

The lack of a compliant credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.

 

* may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

* may not add further interest or any charges to the account.

* may not pass the account to a third party.

* may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.

* may not issue a default notice related to the account.

 

Therefore this account has become unenforceable at law.

 

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

 

After taking advice, I am of the opinion that your continued pursuit is in violation of the Administration of Justice Act 1970 section 40, Protection from harassment Act 1997 section 3 as well as breaching a number of the OFT Collection Guidelines.

 

I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit.

You have 14 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint.

 

I hope that you will enter into a sincere dialogue with me about this matter and I am writing this letter to you on the assumption that you would prefer to do this than merely respond with standard letters and leaflets.

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

 

I await your rapid response.

 

Yours Faithfully

[alisindebt]

By law they have to send you a CCA, called a true copy. there is a tem,plate letter on this site to use, send it to them registered post with a cheque or postal order for 1 pound and they have 12 days to send it to you, plus two days processing, etc . That means you should get it in 14 days, or so.

 

If they do not send it in time then the account defaults into dispute. if they do send it then take a close look, there are many examples on here of what is and is not enforceable.

 

when did you take thats out then?

 

i have a Barclay card and im trying to find out if that one is un enforceable but iv been advised there is no way Barclays will send me a CCA

[alisindebt]

A copy of terms and conditions is not a true copy of the CCA. A true copy of the CCA is a copy of the original credit agreement in total. They are now in default. There is a template letter you can send. Alterniatviely, you don't have to do anything, they are the ones at fault.

 

One has to ask why they would only send this document to you, rather than the correct one, perhaps they have something to hide? last time I had a compnay giving me the run a round for a CCA was a DCA called CapQuest. it was like pulling teeth! However, I persisted and when it arrived, surprise surprise, it was unenforceable.

[alisindebt]

They are BS you. They have to send the full CCA and this sounds like they either don't have a copy on file, or it is unenforceable. Use this template, then keep quiet, they are in the wrong:

 

Account In Dispute

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Re: my request under s78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

Thank you for your recent letter sent to me dated **DATE**, the contents of which are noted. However, the reply received by me does not fulfil your requirements under the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

The Act demands that I be supplied with a true copy of any properly executed credit agreement that exists in relation to the above account. I may ask for this on demand providing that a fee of £1.00 is paid. This fee was sent with my original letter, dated **DATE**. Upon receipt of the original request the specified account legally entered into disputed status.

 

My request remains outstanding. The supplied documentation does not constitute a true copy of a credit agreement and that which you sent doesn't even contain all the prescribed terms and is not 'properly executed'. The statements sent do not correspond to the amount stated in your earliest correspondence and therefore they do not satisfy the requirement to supply me with a statement of account.

 

As you will know, under the Consumer Credit Act 1974, a judge is not permitted to make any enforcement order unless the creditor can provide a true signed copy of the original credit agreement. This means that unless you can produce such an agreement, this alleged debt is not enforceable in law.

 

You had until **12 days DATE** to provide me with the true copy I requested. After that date you entered into default of my request. Whilst the account is in dispute, you are not permitted to ask for any payment, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you. Furthermore, whilst the dispute remains, you are not entitled to charge any interest on the account, nor make any further charges to the account. Additionally, you are not entitled to register any information on this account with any credit reference agencies (or any third party).

 

To register information with a credit reference agency, you must have written consent from the data subject to collate and share such information. This consent is given in the form of a signed credit agreement, so until you produce such an agreement, you may not do this.

 

The requirement for consent to share data is a clear requirement of the Data Protection Act 1998. Any such attempts to share my data without my consent will be met with a complaint to the Information Commissioners Office.

 

The time limits, which are laid down in the Consumer Credit (Prescribed Periods for Giving Information) Regulations 1983 are clear. You must supply an executed credit agreement within 12 working days of a proper CCA request. If you fail to comply with a legitimate request the account enters a default situation. . You entered into a default on **12 Days DATE**

 

Therefore you have 7 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint, otherwise your conduct will be reported to the Office of Fair Trading, the Financial Ombudsman and Trading Standards. Any investigation undertaken by them may affect your ability to hold a consumer credit license in the future.

 

Take further note that continued telephone calls after the receipt of a request not to call may constitute a criminal offence under Section 127 of the Communications Act 2003.

 

Communicate in writing and ONLY in writing, your telephone calls will NOT be answered.

 

To sum up, I will not be making any further payments to you until you provide me with the document I have requested. Should you not have any signed credit agreement in relation to this alleged debt, please confirm this in writing to me.

 

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

 

I look forward to your reply.

 

Yours faithfully

 

Hi,

Sent them the letter about sending just Terms & Conditions was not good enough. Barclaycard will just keep repeating themselves about their obligations are complete, they are allowed to leave things out, pay up or else.

[alisindebt]

Use this template to request a CCA from the bank. There is a different one if you write to a DCA.

 

To: The Company Secretary

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Account No

 

With reference to the above agreement, I would be grateful if you would send me a copy of this credit agreement. I understand that under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (Sections 77-79), I am entitled to receive a copy of my credit agreement on request. I enclose a payment of £1.00 which represents the fee payable under the Consumer Credit Act.

 

I understand a copy of my credit agreement should be supplied within 12 working days.

 

I understand that under the Consumer Credit Act creditors are unable to enforce an agreement if they fail to comply with a request for a copy of the agreement under these sections of the Act.

 

I look forward to hearing from you.

 

Yours faithfully

 

 

 

 

Alisindebt do you have an equaly good letter that i could send in a first instance to request my cca ????

 

thanks

[alisindebt]

However, if you don't want to go to court, and the debt is unenforcebale anyway, remember the onus is on the DCA to prove that this is a legitimate debt. of course, they cannot. So as an alternative you could use a letter like this:

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

You have contacted me/us regarding the account with the above reference number, which you claim is owed by myself/ourselves.

 

I/we would point out that I/we have no knowledge of any such debt being owed to (insert company name).

 

I am/we are familiar with the Office of Fair Trading Debt Collection Guidance which states that it is unfair to send demands for payment to an individual when it is uncertain that they are the debtor in question.

 

I/we would also point out that the OFT say under the Guidance that it is unfair to pursue third parties for payment when they are not liable. In not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonably queried or disputed debt you are using deceptive/and or unfair methods.

 

Furthermore ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment amounts to physical/psychological harassment.

 

I/we would ask that no further contact be made concerning the above account unless you can provide evidence as to my/our liability for the debt in question.

 

I/we await your written confirmation that this matter is now closed. Otherwise I will have no option but to make a complaint to the trading standards department and consider informing the OFT of your actions.

 

I/we look forward to your reply.

 

Yours faithfully

 

 

 

 

Another nice one to use when it is passed to another DCA is the "bemused" letter, I have used this with great success!

 

ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE

Dear Sir or Madam,

Account number: XXXX XXXX XXXX XXXX

 

I must admit that I am rather bemused as to why this account has been passed to yourselves, as it is in dispute with the **original creditor/DCA** and has been since DATE 2007.

Not only is this a breach of OFT collection guidelines, but also in breach of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and Data Protection Act 1998

 

My last letter from **original creditor/DCA** was DATE and intimated that my complaint would be

resolved on **DATE**, this obviously hasn’t happened.

As **original creditor/DCA** are now in default of my Consumer Credit Act request, OFT Collection Guidelines, *Subject Access request and have also breached *s10 Data Protection Act request , I consider this account to be in SERIOUS DISPUTE.

 

As you are aware while my Consumer Credit Act request remains in default enforcement action is NOT permitted, under s127 this constitutes a complete defence at law.

 

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

 

Now I would respectfully suggest that this account is returned to the **original creditor/DCA** for resolution of these defaults and breaches, as **New DCA** cannot lawfully pursue any enforcement activities.

 

If **New DCA** chooses to ignore my dispute and attempt enforcement, I will initiate legal action and file reports with the appropriate authorities, including, but not limited to, Trading Standards, Office of Fair Trading, Information Commissioners Office, Financial Ombudsman Service and possible court action.

 

After taking advice, I am of the opinion that any continued pursuit is in violation of the Administration of Justice Act 1970 section 40 as well as breaching a number of the OFT Collection Guidelines

 

I hope that this will not be necessary and an acceptable solution can be accomplished.

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

 

Yours faithfully

[alisindebt]

YOU dont have to wor out anything.

 

Send this:

 

Account In Dispute

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Re: my request under s78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

Thank you for your recent letter sent to me dated **DATE**, the contents of which are noted. However, the reply received by me does not fulfil your requirements under the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

The Act demands that I be supplied with a true copy of any properly executed credit agreement that exists in relation to the above account. I may ask for this on demand providing that a fee of £1.00 is paid. This fee was sent with my original letter, dated **DATE**. Upon receipt of the original request the specified account legally entered into disputed status.

 

My request remains outstanding. The supplied documentation does not constitute a true copy of a credit agreement and that which you sent doesn't even contain all the prescribed terms and is not 'properly executed'. The statements sent do not correspond to the amount stated in your earliest correspondence and therefore they do not satisfy the requirement to supply me with a statement of account.

 

As you will know, under the Consumer Credit Act 1974, a judge is not permitted to make any enforcement order unless the creditor can provide a true signed copy of the original credit agreement. This means that unless you can produce such an agreement, this alleged debt is not enforceable in law.

 

You had until **12 days DATE** to provide me with the true copy I requested. After that date you entered into default of my request. Whilst the account is in dispute, you are not permitted to ask for any payment, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you. Furthermore, whilst the dispute remains, you are not entitled to charge any interest on the account, nor make any further charges to the account. Additionally, you are not entitled to register any information on this account with any credit reference agencies (or any third party).

 

To register information with a credit reference agency, you must have written consent from the data subject to collate and share such information. This consent is given in the form of a signed credit agreement, so until you produce such an agreement, you may not do this.

 

The requirement for consent to share data is a clear requirement of the Data Protection Act 1998. Any such attempts to share my data without my consent will be met with a complaint to the Information Commissioners Office.

 

The time limits, which are laid down in the Consumer Credit (Prescribed Periods for Giving Information) Regulations 1983 are clear. You must supply an executed credit agreement within 12 working days of a proper CCA request. If you fail to comply with a legitimate request the account enters a default situation. . You entered into a default on **12 Days DATE**

 

Therefore you have 7 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint, otherwise your conduct will be reported to the Office of Fair Trading, the Financial Ombudsman and Trading Standards. Any investigation undertaken by them may affect your ability to hold a consumer credit license in the future.

 

Take further note that continued telephone calls after the receipt of a request not to call may constitute a criminal offence under Section 127 of the Communications Act 2003.

 

Communicate in writing and ONLY in writing, your telephone calls will NOT be answered.

 

To sum up, I will not be making any further payments to you until you provide me with the document I have requested. Should you not have any signed credit agreement in relation to this alleged debt, please confirm this in writing to me.

 

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

 

I look forward to your reply.

 

Yours faithfully

So that's and opener.

 

EIE

 

You are not working out compound interest. It's simple interest. number of days owed x payment amount x interest rate.

Ok?

Regards

Liz

[alisindebt]

Hi Liz

 

Yes, well spotted. This is the problem with multiple issues in the same thread. Thanks for pointing it out.

[alisindebt]

Hi Matheram and Dave.

 

I am glad that you have aksed this follow up question because there are various viewpoints on the various threads about paying or not paying when a CCA is unenforcebale. Some,s ay that you should stop payments. Others say that you should keep paying, so that if the case does go to court, you will appear morally superior. My own personal suspicion, however, is that most cases don't even get as far as court.

[alisindebt]

Hi Chris

 

All four of mine defualted back in 2005 and I only made token payments from abroad since then, which i stopped recently once i realised that there was a CCA issue. I didn't know about CCAs before that.

 

My target goal now that they have all had unenforecable CCS latters from me is to stop any further contact with them, since I live and work abroad. After 6 years the will all be statute barred anyway, I assume.

[alisindebt]

What I mean is that i tried everything with them before, settlement offers, lower payments and they still continued to send CCJ threat letters even when I am abroad, so to be honest, i have pretty well given up n them. They all 4 have unenforecable CCA of which i have no intention of paying. they can't take me to court as I am abroad. So it will just sit there.

[alisindebt]

A further point with all this, I forgot to mention earlier. When i received my "CCAs", in all cases there were faults that according to my solicitor made them unenforecbale. Yes, I realise that in theory, only a court can decide that but as stated above in the thread, it's a question of who is bothering to go to court anyway. I sent the template letter about having an unenforecbale CCA (I posted it on the forums for all to see). However, I forgot to mention that I added a little paragraph like this:

 

To sum up, I will not be making any further payments to you until you provide me with the document I have requested. Should you not have any signed credit agreement in relation to this alleged debt, please confirm this in writing to me.

 

However, as a matter of goodwill, I am prepared to offer a full and final settlement of 500 pounds-20% of the original amount outstanding to Egg, which was 2500 pounds. You have 7 days from the date of this letter to accept my settlement offer, after which it will be withdrawn.

 

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

[alisindebt]

When you write to dispute a CCA, it is not advisable to give the reasons for the dispute in detail. That way, they cannot write back to you in the way that they done.

 

This is what I use. It is then up to them to second guess what is wrong.

 

Remember it is not up to you to prove the CCA is invalid, it is up to them to prove that it is:

 

Account In Dispute

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Re: my request under s78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

Thank you for your recent letter sent to me dated **DATE**, the contents of which are noted. However, the reply received by me does not fulfil your requirements under the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

The Act demands that I be supplied with a true copy of any properly executed credit agreement that exists in relation to the above account. I may ask for this on demand providing that a fee of £1.00 is paid. This fee was sent with my original letter, dated **DATE**. Upon receipt of the original request the specified account legally entered into disputed status.

 

My request remains outstanding. The supplied documentation does not constitute a true copy of a credit agreement and that which you sent doesn't even contain all the prescribed terms and is not 'properly executed'. The statements sent do not correspond to the amount stated in your earliest correspondence and therefore they do not satisfy the requirement to supply me with a statement of account.

 

As you will know, under the Consumer Credit Act 1974, a judge is not permitted to make any enforcement order unless the creditor can provide a true signed copy of the original credit agreement. This means that unless you can produce such an agreement, this alleged debt is not enforceable in law.

 

You had until **12 days DATE** to provide me with the true copy I requested. After that date you entered into default of my request. Whilst the account is in dispute, you are not permitted to ask for any payment, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you. Furthermore, whilst the dispute remains, you are not entitled to charge any interest on the account, nor make any further charges to the account. Additionally, you are not entitled to register any information on this account with any credit reference agencies (or any third party).

 

To register information with a credit reference agency, you must have written consent from the data subject to collate and share such information. This consent is given in the form of a signed credit agreement, so until you produce such an agreement, you may not do this.

 

The requirement for consent to share data is a clear requirement of the Data Protection Act 1998. Any such attempts to share my data without my consent will be met with a complaint to the Information Commissioners Office.

 

The time limits, which are laid down in the Consumer Credit (Prescribed Periods for Giving Information) Regulations 1983 are clear. You must supply an executed credit agreement within 12 working days of a proper CCA request. If you fail to comply with a legitimate request the account enters a default situation. . You entered into a default on **12 Days DATE**

 

Therefore you have 7 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint, otherwise your conduct will be reported to the Office of Fair Trading, the Financial Ombudsman and Trading Standards. Any investigation undertaken by them may affect your ability to hold a consumer credit license in the future.

 

Take further note that continued telephone calls after the receipt of a request not to call may constitute a criminal offence under Section 127 of the Communications Act 2003.

 

Communicate in writing and ONLY in writing, your telephone calls will NOT be answered.

 

To sum up, I will not be making any further payments to you until you provide me with the document I have requested. Should you not have any signed credit agreement in relation to this alleged debt, please confirm this in writing to me.

 

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

 

I look forward to your reply.

 

Yours faithfully

[alisindebt]

Hi,

If a bank informs you that they will probably be unable to find your CCA because they only have to keep documents for 6 years, and it may have been destroyed, what is the legal position?

 

regards

 

sunray001

 

I had a similar experience where they could not find the original CCA, simply because they did not keep records that long. They wrote to confirm that they were closing the account and would take no further action, which saved me just over ten thousand pounds-not bad eh?

 

Technically the debt still exists, but they cannot take enforcement procedures in a county court without a true copy of the original CCA being kept on file. However, I have heard of occasions in such cases when they send a DCA after the debt, in which case all you have to do is say them, "Uncollectable" each time they write or call and they soon get the message.

 

It is also unlawful for a DCA to attempt to collect on an account previously disputed with the OC (original creditor). Therefore I suggest that you immediately put the account into dispute, that stops any future DCA attempts to collect.