DCA demand old debt without notice from creditor

[Undercover-Elsa]

Hi,

I would also send a Subject Access Request to the school for ALL the data they hold on you.

This should produce all copies of correspondence, bills, statements, payments..everything they hold.

There is a link to a standard SAR in my blog linked below. Amend it to suit, including all data you specifically need.

They have 40 days from receipt to comply, otherwise you can make a complaint to the Information Commissioner.

There is usually a fee, for banks it's a maximum of £10, but may be different for a school..you'd need to put something on the lines of "if a fee is required please advise me of the amount by return".

Send it recorded.

 

Hope this helps,

Elsa x

[Undercover-Elsa]

Hi,

I know this company. A few people on here have had problems with them flouting debt collection guidance before.

Don't under any circumstances talk to them on the phone again.

Send them the amended harrassment letter and add:

This account is in genuine dispute with the school, and I am dealing with them direct to resolve and awaiting their response them to a SAR.

I am well aware of currect OFT debt collection guidelines and that if you persist in pusueing this debt while it is in genuine dispute I will have no hesitation in reporting you to the OFT and Trading Standards without further notice.

Furthermore, as only the owner of a debt can take legal action, your statement on the telephone that you will take me to court is clearly misleading and an attempt to intimidate and coerce me into making a payment, in direct contravention of the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008, which can result in criminal proceedings being brought against you.

I also intend to make formal complaint to the school regarding your methods, and to my MP and West Yorkshire Constabulary if this harrassment continues.

 

Head it Formal Complaint and send it by recorded delivery Lou. I would definitely add a strong complaint about them to the school and follow through with the complaint to the OFT as they have upset a lot of people by their methods and need bringing to account.

 

Elsa x

[Undercover-Elsa]

The reason I mention West Yorkshire Constabulary, btw, is because the MD was a Police Officer there.

[Undercover-Elsa]

You might find this useful to check for any transgressions (The Independant School Standards Regukations)

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2003/1910/contents/made

 

Good thread on what to do if you're being sued:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?241827-Legal-Action-how-to-start-off.-IMPORTANT-IF-YOURE-BEING-SUED

 

Apart from acknowledging the claim, you need to send them a CPR 31.14 request for all docs mentioned in the POC. If there's anything you need that they haven't mentioned, you can get round this by sending a section 18 request asking for info. (Only when they've mentioned a doc can you request it.)

 

The CPR request (adapt further if needed)

Dear Sir,

 

Re: (Claimant's name) v (Your name) Case No:

CPR 31.14 Request

 

On (date) I received the Claim Form in this case issued by you out of the (Name) county court.

 

I confirm having returned my acknowledgement of service to the court in which I indicate my intention to contest your claim.

 

 

Please treat this letter as my request made under CPR 31.14 for the disclosure and the production of a verified and legible copy of each of the following mentioned in your Particulars of Claim:

 

1. The contract (including tems and conditions).

You will appreciate that in an ordinary case and by reason of the provisions of CPR PD 16 para 7.3, where a claim is based upon a written contract, a copy of the contract, or documents constituting the agreement , should be attached to or served with the particulars of claim and the original(s) should be available at the hearing. Further, that any general conditions incorporated in the contract should also be attached. This should include a schedule of fees for the duration of the relevant period.

 

2. A full and accurate statement of account clearly showing how the sum claimed has been calculated.

 

3. A copy of all original invoices pertaining to the amount claimed

 

4. A record of all telephone calls, dates, times and recordings or transcripts

 

5. A copy of all correspondence sent in respect of this dispute, with proof of posting.

 

 

 

You should ensure compliance with your CPR 31 duties and ensure that the document(s) I have requested are copied to and received by me within 7 days of receiving this letter. Your CPR 31 duties extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for the originals of the documents I have requested, the better for you to be able to verify the document's authenticity and to provide me with a legible copy. Further, where I have requested a copy of a document, the original of which is now in the possession of another person, you will have a right to possession of that document if you have mentioned it in your case. You must take immediate steps to recover and preserve it for the purpose of this case.

 

Where I have mentioned a document and there is in your possession more than one version of that same document owing to a modification, obliteration or other marking or feature, each version will be a separate document and you must provide a copy of each version of it to me. Your obligations extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for any version(s) to include an obligation to recover and preserve such version(s) which are now in the possession of a third party.

 

In accordance with CPR 31.15© I undertake to be responsible for your reasonable copying costs incurred in complying with this CPR 31.14 request.

 

If you require more time in which to comply with this request you must tell me in writing. You must tell me before the time for compliance with this request has expired. In telling me you require more time you must tell me what steps you have taken and propose to take in order to comply with this request and also state a date by when you will comply with this request. In addition your statement must be accompanied with a statement that you agree to an extension of the time for me to file my defence. Your extension of time must be not less than 14 days from the date when you say you will have complied with my request and you must state the new date for filing my defence.

 

If you are unable to comply with this request and believe that you will never be able to comply with this request you must tell me in writing.

 

Please note that if you should fail to comply with this request, fail to request more time or fail to agree to an extension of time for the filing of my defence, I will make an application to the court for an order that the proceedings be struck out or stayed for non-compliance and a summary costs order.

 

I do hope this will not be necessary and look forward to hearing from you.

 

yours faithfully

 

 

 

(Above adapted from letter courtesy SurfaceagentX20 )

 

Bearing in mind you can only request what's in the POC, is there anything else you need which is vital to your case which could be queried in a section 18 request for info?

 

Elsa x

Edited May 17, 2011 by Undercover-Elsa

[Undercover-Elsa]

Hi Loulou,

How odd. I don't know why the solicitor has said that. From what I can gather CPR 31.16 is normally for "advance disclosure" before proceedings have commenced, the purpose being to establish whether a claim has merit before undertaking to start legal action:

 

Application under CPR 31.16:

Advanced disclosure is only available before proceedings or prior to the normal time of disclosure and discovery in order to:

1. fairly dispose of the anticipated proceedings
   
2. to assist in the dispute being resolved without proceedings
   
3. to save costs.
   

(Full text:

http://www.dllegal.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=70&Itemid=155 )

The "normal time for disclosure" is after proceedings have started. Prior to this you cannot use 31.14, but as a claim has now been issued, you can.

Just my view. You might want to get another sols opinion on that, or ring her back and ask her to clarify in the light of the claim being in progress.

Anyone else got any thoughts?

[Undercover-Elsa]

Furthermore, from what I've read, a 31.16 request requires that you give evidence as to why you feel the request is valid...ie the reason you believe that court action will ensue or be necessary in order for the court to decide whether to enforce the request.

The only time I've seen it used on here is (in the oden days!) when people used it to try and force the banks to produce Consumer Credit Agreement BEFORE a claim was issued, in order to take action against the bank for a declaration of unenforceability, if they didn't produce it. This is rarely if ever done now.

The only reason I can think of for her suggesting 31.16 is that it could be used for docs not mentioned in the POC, as required by 31.14, but these POCs are pretty long and detailed so should cover all we've asked for? We can also request info (as opposed to documents) under part 18, then further request any docs they mention in their reply, if needed.

 

 

I'll try and get someone else to look in, but my own view is go with 31.14 in view of the fact that the summons has already been issued. Your decision though..the sol might know something about the case that we don't.

Edited June 7, 2011 by Undercover-Elsa

[Undercover-Elsa]

Thanks Cb..

 

I thought I wasn't going completely mad. Don't know what the sol was thinking..but my own experience with them when dealing with a problem with my mum's estate a few yrs ago made me realise how obtuse they can be...they rarely seem to look into things in any great depth.

[Undercover-Elsa]

Yes, I'd be interested to know who's listed for contact. This DCA has a vested interest in pushing for court. In the T&C's it states that if they recommend court action and the client disagrees, or backs out, they will incur a £150 fee. If the DCA recommends ceasing court action, there's no fee. But they wouldn't, would they?

They state they team up with Williamson & Soden Sols (famous for one of their employees embezzling over a million out of the firm over 7 years, LOL)

Also, this DCA states:

 

Leading the industry in the fight against absconded debtors our field agents visit debtors on a nationwide basis at their home or place of work, in order to collect monies owed or negotiate payments pertaining to outstanding debts.

The doorstep visit service offered with First Debt Recovery, in conjunction with our high success rate in locating absconded debtors is second to none and, we believe, allows us to offer the best national doorstep collection service currently available in the debt collection industry.

 

Trained in the field of surveillance and debt collection our debt recovery investigators first make local enquiries to confirm a debtor’s occupation, financial status and also to detail any obvious assets that may be pertinent to recovering outstanding debts. Our investigators document all findings and support all work with photographic evidence.

 

Just how many OFT debt collection guideline transgressions can you spot in there?

 

I hope once your immediate problems are sorted out, Loulou, that you'll help us and other of their victims by reporting them to the OFT & Trading Standards.

 

But, back to the job in hand...agree with CitizenB

 

Elsa x

[Undercover-Elsa]

A part 18 request wouldn't go amiss, actually. You can only ask for info, but can then request any docs mentioned in their reply.

Suggested questions?

 

I was informed by xxxx of First Debt Recovery that they now owned the debt, please can you confirm on what date the debt was purchased, whether a Notice of Assignment was sent, on what date, to which address and by service method.

Please can you also confirm why xxx school is stated as the Claimant if First Debt Recovery are the owners.

Please confirm the name of the pupil to which these alleged fees apply, the dates of attendance, applicable fees and payments made.

 

(if I remember rightly part of what they're claiming was actually for a sibling?)

 

Anything else you need to ask for, couched as info, not docs?

[Undercover-Elsa]

Cb will find a part 18 template faster than me

[Undercover-Elsa]

Hi Loulou,

That looks fine to me. Don't think it needs to be any stronger and it's very articulate.

Well done

Elsa x

[Undercover-Elsa]

That's a good one Andy...much more concise than others I've seen on here.

[Undercover-Elsa]

Good luck for today Loulou. I hope justice prevails for you

 

Elsa xxx

[Undercover-Elsa]

Very very well done Loulou, pity it wasn't a strike out but you've now got the ear of the judge and it sounds as if even their solicitor was secretly sympathetic to you

 

I've done very little, it's Andy and yourself who have done all the hard work so far, and all credit to you both.

Let's hope their solicitor makes them realise it's not as cut and dried as they thought.

 

That damn DCA has a lot to answer for...he's pushed them into court as far as I can see, then done a runner when he realised it wasn't an easy win.

 

So, a well deserved glass or two of wine tonight, lady? then relax till it's time to regroup for the next stage....

 

All the very best,

 

Elsa xxx

[Undercover-Elsa]

He thinkshe's above the law as he's a retired police officer. I know people who worked with him. Can't say any more in public.