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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
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Microfiche statements


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Further to my previous posts I have read the letter very very carefully and possibly found what the Abbey are doing.

 

My letter asked for a complete list of transactions and charges imposed tn the for the past six years. I then added "Alternatively a complete set of bank statements for that period will be acceptable."

The Abbey letter makes much of transactions being microfiched but does not mention of statements at all. I therefore intent to respond by insisting the statements are provided under the original DPA request.

Anyone else got other ideas?

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Estimate the amount and write to them giving them 14 days to comply.

 

When they don't, sue for the estimated amount, ie.:

 

"I expect to recover no more than £2000.00." or whatever your estimate is.

 

I bet they soon go through the 'microfiche' then to find out how much they owe you.

 

Fight fire with fire! (My grandad got fired from the Fire Brigade for doing just that - they said he should have used water! - You just can't win sometimes!)

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Thanks for all the comments and they have been included.

 

Here's the final draft.

 

"ACCOUNT NUMBER: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

 

Dear Ms Small

 

Thank you for your letter dated 28th March outlining that you could only provide me with statements covering the last 11 months on my account because any earlier information has been archived onto microfiche. Enclosed was a list of transactions and account detail covering the 11 month period.

 

As you stated that microfiche is not covered by the DPA I am assuming that Abbey have conformed to the strictures of the DPA and therefore the cheque originally sent will cover the Subject Access Request. If this is correct then please cash it.

 

The statements for this period show that I have incurred charges of £672 during this period. Based on this information and your banks clear obstructiveness in providing me with the information I asked for I wish to inform you that unless you can provide me with evidence of all charges relating to my bank account dating back to my original request date of 1st January 2000 then it will leave me with no alternative but to issue a County Court summons for which I expect to recover no more than £4032 plus interest to cover the period from 1st January 2000.

 

My request is for a schedule of all the charges applied to my account with appropriate descriptions for the past six years – in short a list of charges with dates and amounts - alternatively a complete set of bank statements for that period will be acceptable. This should be retrievable from your accounting systems and easy for you to produce. I will accept a computer print out of these transactions.

 

Please note that you have 40 days from 9th March in which to respond

 

Yours faithfully"

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Eric - would suggest you edit your previous post, and replace your account number with XXXX

Alecto, Magaera et Tisiphone: Nemesis on Earth is come.

 

All advice and opinions given by Spiceskull are personal, and are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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...good letter though...show them who is the boss! Good luck.

Alecto, Magaera et Tisiphone: Nemesis on Earth is come.

 

All advice and opinions given by Spiceskull are personal, and are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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How do you get from £672 to £4000 odd? Have you estimated based on years?

Most of my abbey charges are 2+ years old and I think I will hit the "microfilm wall".

That doesn't mean I will let them fob me off!

Abbey (Charges on 3 accounts and default on my credit record) - DPA letter sent 30/03/06 - 40 days limit is 9th May - Recieved DPA printouts 05/04/06 with microfiche "fob off" letter. <p>Barclaycard (Charges on 1 account and default on my credit record) - DPA letter sent 03/04/06 - 40 days limit is 13th May - Recieved some statements 08/04/06 along with DPA printout and a microfiche "fob off" letter. Claim for £340 sent 11/04/06

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£672 per year (this year was actually £672) so an estimated claim for 6 years £672*6 = £4032

 

They only sent me a list of transactions covering 11 months. I actually think the claim could be less but in the absence of their information I can only make a reasonable stab at it.

 

Hope this helps

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Sure - they will come back, pretty sharpish, and say that the charges actually total something like £2K. That's great, as you can then claim back what they have said you have been charged. Additionally (and here is where you really gain points) - if they submit printed statements to court, and their figure is wrong...well, they didn't supply you with the information you requested AND they lied to you!!!

Alecto, Magaera et Tisiphone: Nemesis on Earth is come.

 

All advice and opinions given by Spiceskull are personal, and are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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I’ve just spoken to Abbey about their E Banking facility and been told that there are two years statements on line. Why therefore can they only send me 11 months transactions for my DPA request if they are available up to 2 years electronically so therefore why do they need to microfiche my statements from over 11 months ago. Inconsistency on their behalf I assume. Anyway I’m still awaiting a response to me letter and I will keep you posted. Perhaps I should ask them.

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They are obviously lying/stalling unless...the bank does not have access to online information like the customers do...

Alecto, Magaera et Tisiphone: Nemesis on Earth is come.

 

All advice and opinions given by Spiceskull are personal, and are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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Don't give them another 40 days - just use the original date that you gave for them to properly comply with your DPA request.

 

I agree. 40 days is quite plenty. remember you are dealing with a BIG organisation with teams of people that will just be doing DPA stuff day in day out.

 

NEVER feel sorry for them or feel you owe them a favour.

Abbey (Charges on 3 accounts and default on my credit record) - DPA letter sent 30/03/06 - 40 days limit is 9th May - Recieved DPA printouts 05/04/06 with microfiche "fob off" letter. <p>Barclaycard (Charges on 1 account and default on my credit record) - DPA letter sent 03/04/06 - 40 days limit is 13th May - Recieved some statements 08/04/06 along with DPA printout and a microfiche "fob off" letter. Claim for £340 sent 11/04/06

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They provide on line access to customer information for their customers and for themselves they only have access to information archived in a system that was used when Noah was a lad? They are having a laugh. I suspect with the volume of letters/claims being sent their way they don’t know which way to turn. Inconsistency is becoming an epidemic within Abbey. Time for a team meeting I suspect to stop the Chinese Walls getting higher within their organisation or some sort of policy statement to ensure consistency in their lies and fabrications. Let battle commence!

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Abbey have provided all 6 years for many people - including me and my partner.

 

In my opinion they are just stalling - I suggest writing to the IC informing him that you have evidence that they have access to 6 years and that they are stalling now that they are faced with this onslaught of people that have caught them out and are now claiming back their money.

 

I have a list of 6 years print-outs that I will supply if the IC needs proof.

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Done - gone first class today

 

"Dear Ms Small

 

Thank you for your letter dated 28th March outlining that you could only provide me with statements covering the last 11 months on my account because any earlier information has been archived onto microfiche. Enclosed was a list of transactions and account detail covering the 11 month period.

 

My request was for a schedule of all the charges applied to my account with appropriate descriptions for the past six years – in short a list of charges with dates and amounts - alternatively a complete set of bank statements for that period will be acceptable. This should be retrievable from your accounting systems and easy for you to produce. I will accept a computer print out of these transactions.

 

Please note that you have 40 days from 9th March in which to respond

 

In the interim period I will be sending a copy of my letters and your response(s) to the Information Commissioner informing him that I can supply him with evidence that Abbey have access to 6 years information (provided on print outs) and that Abbey are using stalling tactics to delay my claim.

 

Yours faithfully

 

Eric The Red"

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Nice.

If you feel that we have helped you, or you would like to help keep this web site running so that others can continue to get their money back, please click the donate button at the top of the forum.

Advice & opinions of Dave, The Bank Action Group and The Consumer Action Group are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability.

Use your own judgment. Seek advice of a qualified insured professional if you have any doubts.

 

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Super...will send a copy of the above to Jackie Scott as well - just had a letter from her saying that the trasactions prior to the ones they sent have been archived onto microfiche etc etc.

 

She does say she has passed the £10 on to the archive department, and they will send copy statements "in due course", but we all know how long "due course" is!

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Abbey appear to have refused my request for copies of statements under SARN. The following letter from Sheena states it will be passed on to the relevant business area with a response "in due course"

What do the rest of you make of it? Any suggestions what to do next?

 

 

Dear

 

Thank you for your letter dated .

 

Transactional data archived onto microfiche are not part of a "relevant filing system" as defined by the Data Protection Act and consequently you would not get this information as part of a Subject Access Request. However, as it is clear from your letter that you still require the multiple statements, I have forwarded your request together with your £10 fee, to the relevant business area to be dealt with as a normal customer service request.

 

There is an administration fee for the supply of microfiche records which are as follows: -

£5.00 for 1 monthly statement which has been archived

£10.00 for multiple monthly statements, which have been archived.

 

I confirm that they will forward the microfiche records you have requested in due course.

 

You have also asked for details of any "manual interventions" that there may have been on your account. Although I am not entirely clear as to what information it is that you require, I am taking a "manual intervention" to be any action taken with regard to your account other than an automatic or computer-driven action.

 

You will appreciate that first of all, not all manual interventions on your account may be recorded. For example, if a member of staff looks at a paper document relating to your account, a record of that activity will not always be made. Moreover, an "intervention" may be carried out by any one of a large number of departments in Abbey. There is no central record of such interventions because this is not the kind of information that we usually need nor, more importantly, information that a customer would normal request.

 

I regret therefore that I am unable to supply detailed information of any manual intervention. I am sorry for any inconvenience this may cause.

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Abbey appear to have refused my request for copies of statements under SARN. The following letter from Sheena states it will be passed on to the relevant business area with a response "in due course"

What do the rest of you make of it? Any suggestions what to do next?

 

 

Dear

 

Thank you for your letter dated .

 

Transactional data archived onto microfiche are not part of a "relevant filing system" as defined by the Data Protection Act and consequently you would not get this information as part of a Subject Access Request. However, as it is clear from your letter that you still require the multiple statements, I have forwarded your request together with your £10 fee, to the relevant business area to be dealt with as a normal customer service request.

 

There is an administration fee for the supply of microfiche records which are as follows: -

£5.00 for 1 monthly statement which has been archived

£10.00 for multiple monthly statements, which have been archived.

 

I confirm that they will forward the microfiche records you have requested in due course.

 

You have also asked for details of any "manual interventions" that there may have been on your account. Although I am not entirely clear as to what information it is that you require, I am taking a "manual intervention" to be any action taken with regard to your account other than an automatic or computer-driven action.

 

You will appreciate that first of all, not all manual interventions on your account may be recorded. For example, if a member of staff looks at a paper document relating to your account, a record of that activity will not always be made. Moreover, an "intervention" may be carried out by any one of a large number of departments in Abbey. There is no central record of such interventions because this is not the kind of information that we usually need nor, more importantly, information that a customer would normal request.

 

I regret therefore that I am unable to supply detailed information of any manual intervention. I am sorry for any inconvenience this may cause.

 

Had the same letter - I have sent a letter to them which may be of help to you - it only went yesterday, so I don't know if it has worked, but if you want to have a look go to the last post on my thread:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=2434&page=2

 

Please could you then post progress on a new thread, otherwise it gets difficult to follow the progress of individual cases.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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If it's not part of a relevent filing system - then what is the point of keeping it for 6 years (or longer). It's on computer still and they know you know.

 

also how come your statements are archived onto Microfiche and yet many other users claiming from Abbey haven't had this excuse presented?

 

Quote durant to them and get all data for the £10.

 

As for the manual intervention, as I have said elsewhere, the fact that not ALL manual involvement is not recorded does not prevent ANY being disclosed. Furthermore, if there is ANY manual intervention which is not recording WHO WHEN WHY WHAT WHERE HOW then ask them why this is, and if they would accept this over a deduction from their salary?

 

Stalling tactics of the most obvious kind. Reply and say that any further prevarication will be deemed as deliberate obstruction and result in a complaint to the IC without further correspondence with the Abbey.

 

 

Martin

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I think Abbey's argument is, in any event, very unconvincing. At the end of the day all a statement is is a specifically formatted transaction report from data held on a ledger. It is inconceivable that they don't hold online trsnsaction records even for closed accounts for several years. If they had a tax investigation they would need to provide access to this information and I wouldn't want to tell HMRC that the sample transactions that they asked for from two years ago are somewhere in the pile of microfiches over there in the corner.

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Hi

I have asked for mortgage statements for the last 12 years, and the letter I received was also from Sheena Small the DP Consultant, and my letter reads

 

Please note that under the data protection act disclosure request, you will only receive the transactional information that is held on our systems. I regret that the DPA does not cover any prior transactional data that has been archived on to microfiche. However, in order to assisit you further and as a part of a general customer service, the microfiche records will be sent to you in due course.

 

So if they can find my information for the last 12 years, then they should have no problem in finding yours. Did you send the £10?

 

Don't let them fob you off, keep at it.

 

Good luck and keep smiling.

 

Missie

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I have also received a letter from Ms S Small stating that the archieved documents are not covered by the Data Protection Act - However as I had enclosed my £10 fee and sent a second letter stating I wish for a full 6 years worth of statements she has advised me that she has sent the fee to the relavent department and I will be forward the information in due course.

I think that the stalling tactic is to see who will just give up the chase - I will be chasing again nearer the 40 days is up.

As for the dataprotection act not covering the Microfiche, I feel that this is misleading as the Dataprotection action also covers your image on CCTV and information held on paper So I would just perservere - be patient but persisitant and if all else fails report them to the FSA (25 North Colonnade, Canary Wharf, London)

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If you want to post a new story then

Please

Start your own new thread

That way you will attract more attention to your story and get more visitors and more help 

 

Thanks

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