HSBC vs annabella7 ~ Court action started

[the_shadow]

Just looked again only one signature on the application form and thats mine not theirs

 

Sometimes they just stamp a date and time on it, thats been held in courts to constitute a "signature"

 

S.

[the_shadow]

The cc was taken out 2002

I presume they think I never kept the First DN

Cant see any signature from them or terms and conditions on the application form

 

 

Well we've not seen the agreement but after carey vs HSBC so long as a reference to supplied t&c and you were given the t&c at the time of signing then its possible it could still be enforced... bizarrely after carey it can be the defendant that is required to prove positively that they DIDNT have the documents at time of signing.

 

S.

[the_shadow]

Because i had received a default notice that was short on days and didnt mach cc account number they mentioned in their later documents i asked them for the 'default Notice for that later account , so they sent me a second DN same date of posting, same arrears outstanding, but clearly showing undertones of deceit, higher outstanding balance, longer days to comply by in comparison to first DN , and different start date to the cc agreement , and of course different account number.

 

 

The default not matching the correct account ref is serious but may be counted as de minus as a judge may say you clearly understand or should what the default is referring to, as to short on days then you need to read up on Brandon vs Amex where unless you can prove an actual disadvantage to yourself it will be discounted also.

 

Oh and your correct, they dont normally keep default notices... they issue so many that its basically just a mailmerge each time.

 

Might be an idea to put your defence down on paper then as you seem to have the pieces in all these posts ;-)

 

S.

[annabella7]

Hi Shadow, Thanks for your input, Bad or Good I prefer to know where I stand in this situation.

I am working on my Defence all today and tomorrow. However can you tell me if I should have been informed by the bank that they were registering the debt as a Consolidated debt on my credit file. Surely i should have been informed and a signature required ?

[the_shadow]

Hi Shadow, Thanks for your input, Bad or Good I prefer to know where I stand in this situation.

I am working on my Defence all today and tomorrow. However can you tell me if I should have been informed by the bank that they were registering the debt as a Consolidated debt on my credit file. Surely i should have been informed and a signature required ?

 

Hmm I'm not sure tbh, each account when you open it has the data protection statement included in it which allows them to report that account, not sure if they consolidate that the permission carries over? Whatever the legalities of that they have failed according to their own self regulation if they didnt warn you that they were going to issue a default against your credit file prior to doing it.

 

S.

[annabella7]

hi again, appreciate your input.

these banks are certainly a mischievious bunch, change tracks so easily, and refuse to produce a paper trail when its requested.

I am genuinely quite shocked by their lack of integrity. It has been a major wake up call for me, I am sad to say.

[the_shadow]

Well if they've gone against there own regulations... you need to look at the banking code and the lending code and see what it says about marking defaults on accounts.... then it is quite serious.

 

Under CPUTR2008 its an offence to mislead customers, its also an offence to not adhere to their own policies if they have stated they will. I've had these stashed away for a while:-

 

Regulation 5 which states:-

5.—(1) A commercial practice is a misleading action if it satisfies the conditions in either

paragraph (2) or paragraph (3).

(3) A commercial practice satisfies the conditions of this paragraph if—

(a) it concerns any marketing of a product (including comparative advertising) which creates

confusion with any products, trade marks, trade names or other distinguishing marks of a

competitor; or

(b) it concerns any failure by a trader to comply with a commitment contained in a code of

conduct which the trader has undertaken to comply with, if—

(i) the trader indicates in a commercial practice that he is bound by that code of

conduct

 

and from the banking code:-

 

 

The Banking Code that you are a signee of clearly states you must cease reporting the status of this account as behind on payments to all Credit Reference Agencies where the amount is disputed, I quote:

“13.6 We may give information to Credit Reference Agencies about the personal debts you owe us if: the amount owned is not being disputed”

 

S.

[annabella7]

Hi Shadow, I believe that my best course of action at the moment is to apply to the court for more time. I need to study the regulations and banking law in more detail. and of course I am still awaiting my Data Information. would you think that 60 days would be acceptable to the Court ? I need to fax the letter tomorrow . Deadline is 17th of Feb . As always I would appreciate any input you may have to offer. Thanks

[the_shadow]

Hi Shadow, I believe that my best course of action at the moment is to apply to the court for more time. I need to study the regulations and banking law in more detail. and of course I am still awaiting my Data Information. would you think that 60 days would be acceptable to the Court ? I need to fax the letter tomorrow . Deadline is 17th of Feb . As always I would appreciate any input you may have to offer. Thanks

 

Its not the court you need to get agreement from, its the claimant. The court will require notification in writing that an agreement with the claimant has been made otherwise they will allow a judgement by default.

 

S.

[annabella7]

Hi again, confused about this. i phoned the court today and mentioned that 14 days is insufficient to defend their very recent amendments to the claim. I was told to fax in the reasons that why I needed more time and to fill out form N244 from the HM Court website. and submit it

[annabella7]

the new amended particulars of Claim it stated 'The Defendant do file and serve an amended Defence.

Costs be reserved

[annabella7]

Rather than mess up at this stage I need to be sure about this ? I am awaiting information that First Direct have promised me is being sent on but it wont be here by the deadline unfortunately.

[the_shadow]

Rather than mess up at this stage I need to be sure about this ? I am awaiting information that First Direct have promised me is being sent on but it wont be here by the deadline unfortunately.

 

Then you MUST ring the solicitors and seek an extension as you require the information their client is sending... if they say no then you need to advise them you will seek an extension through the courts and will be seeking the costs of that application from them.

 

Any agreement they give over the phone MUST BE BACKED up by email or post as you should attach this to your notification to the court.

 

Their are set deadlines in court cases and I'm afraid just because you say you need time, the court wont grant it unless its deemed necessary to the court.

 

S.

[annabella7]

Hi Shadow, you are very good to reply to me so quickly. I really appreciate it. The points you raised were v important so I contacted the Solicitors to discuss a time extension, however she was v surprised that I had received the Court Claim so quickly.

She also said that she was requesting another amendant to The Claim .

I couldnt believe it, A 3rd Claim will be sent out soon. Amended again.She said that she didnt mind the time extension but she wouldnt be able to confirm by email. So no confirmation would be given.

So good intuition or bad intuition I decided to send in my Defence which I feel quite plesed with, before the new Amended Claim is served. I think at this stage they may appear quite silly. The amendment concerned the debt being owed to a company that was disolved in 2005. I also reminded the court that my CPR request had not been fully complied with and request that they use their powers to eithir strike out out force disclosure.

I may not have done the correct thing but the time risk was too close ( by tomorrow)

THANKS you have been great . i will keep you posted.

[the_shadow]

Hi, only just seen this been so busy today

 

Hmm third amendment... pushing there costs up I suppose

 

Seems madness that they couldnt confirm by email, think you've done the right thing getting a defence in but hope you put on there you reserve the right to amend for the new pocs when they come.

 

S.

[annabella7]

Hi Shadow,

Yes I stated that I was seriously disadvantaged because the Claimant had not complied with my CPR Request.

Although I needed more time ideally,especially concerning missing documents.

I had my Defence already draftted by the time I spoke to Solicitors and yes this 'new name and company added in amended POC seemed v odd to me when I first read that part. and it was also mentioned in part of my Defence so I left it in, as my letter had to be posted that day in order to make next days deadline. Everything seemed to happen so fast. Thanks again

[the_shadow]

Cool, well done.

 

If you want this moved to the legal form just let us know.

 

S.

[annabella7]

Thanks Shadow,

I suppose I should wait untill I hear something back first,

but if you think its wise to move to the legal forum then thats fine by me. However could I request you to edit the title of my thread a bit.

I think the connection would be made if certain people snooped around.

[annabella7]

Thank again for offering your well informed opinions. Really appreciated !

[the_shadow]

Thanks Shadow,

I suppose I should wait untill I hear something back first,

but if you think its wise to move to the legal forum then thats fine by me. However could I request you to edit the title of my thread a bit.

I think the connection would be made if certain people snooped around.

 

If you want to send me a PM on what the title should be?

 

S.

[annabella7]

Hi Shadow,

I think they have no choice but stick to credit card now. having amended their Claim to it.

They broke their own terms and conditions and banking law by opening a bank account with no credit on it. They back tracked after 9 months, saying now that it was done for admin purposes only.

It was also registered as a consolidated debt on my credit file on the same date.as they merged the credit card and bank account..

So they have been very underhand in their actions. There are numerous other discrepancies.and inaccuries in the small amount of paperwork that I have received in the post. One would expect a bank and solicitors to at least have their paperwork 'Straight' I n the meantime I am still awaiting more requested documents.

[The Mould]

Good evening annabella

 

Found it.

 

I am going for a tea break and smoke, then back in 15 mins.

 

Kind regards

 

The Mould

[The Mould]

Hi Shadow,

I think they have no choice but stick to credit card now. having amended their Claim to it.

They broke their own terms and conditions and banking law by opening a bank account with no credit on it. They back tracked after 9 months, saying now that it was done for admin purposes only.

It was also registered as a consolidated debt on my credit file on the same date.as they merged the credit card and bank account..

So they have been very underhand in their actions. There are numerous other discrepancies.and inaccuries in the small amount of paperwork that I have received in the post. One would expect a bank and solicitors to at least have their paperwork 'Straight' I n the meantime I am still awaiting more requested documents.

 

Hello again annabella

 

Have you received any response from the bank since they amended their claim for the third time or have you received any notifications from the court?

 

Can you please post up the bank's Particulars of Claim and the defence you responded with.

 

The default notice, is the figure stated therein correct and how many clear days are given for you to remedy?

 

You say that you have permission to file/serve an amended defence by 19 this month (April 2011), so do you have any further documents received from the claimant/bank?

 

Come back, Roger-over

 

Kind regards

 

The Mould

[annabella7]

Hi The Mould,

Thanks for replying so late at night. It is really good of you.

Since the final amended Claim received from the Court I did receive one phone call from DG. re:case saying that I had very little chance of succeeding but that they might be willing to accept less and if that was something that I would consider. I asked them to put whatever they wanted to say in writing, but I have not received any post as yet.

The Court just sent the latest amended Claim and mentioned something about first and second amendments being highlighted in different colours for court

I will have to post the particulars of Claim tomorrow as not quite sure how to do it.

I had the DN checked on here before and it is apparently short on days, but also it has an account number that does not match mine.and the start date is incorrect. However they did issue a 2nd Default notice over a year later which is more correct. However I did read a very good post from yourself regarding the issuing of 2nd DN.which consoled me. I am not sure about the calculations.Thanks

[The Mould]

Hi The Mould,

Thanks for replying so late at night. It is really good of you.

Since the final amended Claim received from the Court I did receive one phone call from DG. re:case saying that I had very little chance of succeeding but that they might be willing to accept less and if that was something that I would consider. I asked them to put whatever they wanted to say in writing, but I have not received any post as yet.

The Court just sent the latest amended Claim and mentioned something about first and second amendments being highlighted in different colours for court

I will have to post the particulars of Claim tomorrow as not quite sure how to do it.

I had the DN checked on here before and it is apparently short on days, but also it has an account number that does not match mine.and the start date is incorrect. However they did issue a 2nd Default notice over a year later which is more correct. However I did read a very good post from yourself regarding the issuing of 2nd DN.which consoled me. I am not sure about the calculations.Thanks

 

Thank you for that annabella

 

Firstly, what amount is being claimed and what offer to settle has the claimant (his Solicitors) put to you (over the telephone)?

 

Secondly, if you cannot scan in POC's, then please try and post them - word for word.

 

Yes, there has been an enormous debate (sometimes quite heated) on the site in respect of defective statutory notices. A recent High Court Judgment has seemed to clarify the matter, to some extent, Harrison v Link Financial Ltd [2011], at para 75 of said Judgment HH Judge Chambers has held that a statutory notice (such as a default notice) is a pre-condition of enforcement, he also stated that bad notices can often be made good by the service of good notices, he says 'often', so sometimes but not always is what I construe that statement to mean, so the question is - in what circumstances can a bad notice be made good?

 

You say the 2nd DN is more correct, how's this? Do you mean it is 100% accurate?

 

Well, on the morrow annabella, post up those further details please and I shall see if there is anything that I can assist you with as far as a defence is concerned, if you have one and does it defeat the action or reduce your liability, we shall see what can and cannot be done.

 

Kind regards

 

The Mould