Lloyds overdraft passed on to Wescot

[DDWales]

I wonder what will happen next... Been digging around its seems that Lloyds have hit record highs complaints wise of late http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/reclaim/2011/02/financial-complaints-up-15

[Bazooka Boo]

AFAIK they have always led the way in customer complaints! Seems they don't want to take on board what their customers are saying...

[DDWales]

AFAIK they have always led the way in customer complaints! Seems they don't want to take on board what their customers are saying...

 

Agreed..but what banks actually do take notice??? I see that Mervyn King in an interview today noted that the banks 'put profit before people' Tell us something we dont know!

[Guest]

dd

once a current account is overdrawn, the o/d becomes subject to the Consumer Cred Act. (although not re a s78 agreement request?)

eg formalities are; an o/d letter at the time outlining the o/d terms, notice 'calling in' the o/d, default notice/notice of termination (CCA)?

also consider s140 CCA.

imo

[DDWales]

dd

once a current account is overdrawn, the o/d becomes subject to the Consumer Cred Act. (although not re a s78 agreement request?)

eg formalities are; an o/d letter at the time outlining the o/d terms, notice 'calling in' the o/d, default notice/notice of termination (CCA)?

also consider s140 CCA.

imo

 

Thanks Ford. Although the account falls under the CCA I believe that an OD is exempt from it?? From what I have read on CAG this is very much a grey area unlike a CC where an outright CCA is needed to suceed in court.

[Guest]

Thanks Ford. Although the account falls under the CCA I believe that an OD is exempt from it?? From what I have read on CAG this is very much a grey area unlike a CC where an outright CCA is needed to suceed in court.

 

hi

yes, there is no 'agreement' as such like a cred card (as i said re a s78 request for eg being n/a). but an o/d comes under the cc act re the remainder. eg, a default notice/notice of termination, s140.

imo

Edited March 5, 2011 by Ford
typ

[DDWales]

hi

yes, there is no 'agreement' as such like a cred card (as i said re a s78 request for eg being n/a). but an o/d comes under the cc act re the remainder. eg, a default notice/notice of termination, s140.

imo

 

Thank you .... very interesting...

Im waiting for my SAR to come back from Lloyds plus a reply to my letter of complaint. Will keep updating as and when.

[Bazooka Boo]

OD's have part V exemptions from the CCA, whilst it isn't impossible to question the OD, it is somewhat fraught with problems, as quite often the OC has no idea what legislation they are supposed to be looking at least of all using..

[Guest]

OD's have part V exemptions from the CCA, whilst it isn't impossible to question the OD, it is somewhat fraught with problems, as quite often the OC has no idea what legislation they are supposed to be looking at least of all using..

 

yes, they are exempt from the requirement of an 'executed agreement' like that required re a cred card. but, the remainder applies to an o/d.

any breaches/failures by a cred is worth noting.

imo.

Edited March 5, 2011 by Ford
rephrased

[Bazooka Boo]

It is something I have been meaning to get my teeth into, and ask questions with the relevant organisations..

[DDWales]

yes, the exemption is the requirement of an 'executed agreement' like that required re a cred card. but, the remainder applies to an o/d.

any breaches/failures by a cred is worth noting.

imo.

 

Im sure a Cagger has a thread on here somewhere where he/she took this line and the OC could not enforce the debt because of no 'agreement'?

[DDWales]

It is something I have been meaning to get my teeth into, and ask questions with the relevant organisations..

 

Please do BB! This is definately an area that needs exploring. The banks have been able to hide for too long behind this.

[Guest]

It is something I have been meaning to get my teeth into, and ask questions with the relevant organisations..

 

for some brief examples of an o/d being subject to the CCAct 74, see the 'Examples' in the 74 act itself.

also, the recent Consumer Credit Directive and associated Consumer Credit Regulation(s) 2010 (SI(s)) provide some new rules re o/d's (not retrospective though!)

[DDWales]

for some brief examples of an o/d being subject to the CCAct 74, see the 'Examples' in the 74 act itself.

also, the recent Consumer Credit Directive and associated Consumer Credit Regulation(s) 2010 (SI(s)) provide some new rules re o/d's (not retrospective though!)

 

V interesting! Cheers Ford!

[mad-al]

for some brief examples of an o/d being subject to the CCAct 74, see the 'Examples' in the 74 act itself.

also, the recent Consumer Credit Directive and associated Consumer Credit Regulation(s) 2010 (SI(s)) provide some new rules re o/d's (not retrospective though!)

 

Yep very interesting, i'll have to have a look at that too.

 

I'm also here becuase i too have had a loyds overdraft given to westcr*p, i should really start my own thread, but i sent a CCA template to westcr*p and they returned it saying:

'we are not the creditor for this account.....you can either send your request to our client or resend it to us and we will then forward it to them'

I'm wondering if it's the overdraft thing why i got the response i did or they don't actualy own the debt?

[Guest]

V interesting! Cheers Ford!

welcome

 

Yep very interesting, i'll have to have a look at that too.

 

I'm also here becuase i too have had a loyds overdraft given to westcr*p, i should really start my own thread, but i sent a CCA template to westcr*p and they returned it saying:

'we are not the creditor for this account.....you can either send your request to our client or resend it to us and we will then forward it to them'

I'm wondering if it's the overdraft thing why i got the response i did or they don't actualy own the debt?

 

mad al, maybe best to start your own thread welcome to cag btw! ps, just seen that you have started one!!!

Edited March 7, 2011 by Ford
ps

[mad-al]

welcome

 

 

 

mad al, maybe best to start your own thread welcome to cag btw! ps, just seen that you have started one!!!

 

Thanks, i will watch DD and hope things turn out well, but thought i should get my own thread..

[Abby25]

Hi there,

 

Bank accounts per se are not regulated under the CCA74 - but ODs certainly are (with part v exemption) - part v exemption just means that the bank doesen't have to provide a traditional cca document, as you would have signed and received with a loan or credit card. Instead they in place of a traditional cca document, are bound to provide you with a copy of the original letter of facility you would/should have received when the od agreement commenced (and every time the auth od limit was amended i.e increased or reduced). They also have to send you any copy terms and conditions, statements etc......

 

HOWEVER, part v exemption only applies, if the bank when you send in your cca request claim it, if they don't then you don't alert them to the fact, and normal cca procedures apply i.e a traditional copy agreement is reqd.

 

Additionally, if you are in unauth waters, then within 3 mths of you going outside of your auth od terms, your bank should have sent you details of the revised higher interest (unauthorised od) rate you were now subject to, and any other unauth OD charges to be applied, and the charging period. (they should also send you details of the charges applied to your OD during each charing period - i.e a monthy statement illustrating what they had added to the os debt).

 

Now, if your bank did not send you such information within the specified time frame, under the terms of the CCA, they forfeit the benefits of part v exemption - irrespective to whether they claim part v exemption to your cca request or not - which means that the OD facility needs a full and correctly executed signed credit agreement if they wish to pursue and enforce through the courts - game over ..........

 

Hope this helps ...

 

Abs x

Edited March 8, 2011 by Abby25
typo

[DDWales]

Hi there,

 

Bank accounts per se are not regulated under the CCA74 - but ODs certainly are (with part v exemption) - part v exemption just means that the bank doesen't have to provide a traditional cca document, as you would have signed and received with a loan or credit card. Instead they in place of a traditional cca document, are bound to provide you with a copy of the original letter of facility you would/should have received when the od agreement commenced (and every time the auth od limit was amended i.e increased or reduced). They also have to send you any copy terms and conditions, statements etc......

 

HOWEVER, part v exemption only applies, if the bank when you send in your cca request claim it, if they don't then you don't alert them to the fact, and normal cca procedures apply i.e a traditional copy agreement is reqd.

 

Additionally, if you are in unauth waters, then within 3 mths of you going outside of your auth od terms, your bank should have sent you details of the revised higher interest (unauthorised od) rate you were now subject to, and any other unauth OD charges to be applied, and the charging period. (they should also send you details of the charges applied to your OD during each charing period - i.e a monthy statement illustrating what they had added to the os debt).

 

Now, if your bank did not send you such information within the specified time frame, under the terms of the CCA, they forfeit the benefits of part v exemption - irrespective to whether they claim part v exemption to your cca request or not - which means that the OD facility needs a full and correctly executed signed credit agreement if they wish to pursue and enforce through the courts - game over ..........

 

Hope this helps ...

 

Abs x

 

Facisinating. Thank you Abby. Im waiting for my SAR to come back so lets see what it contains....8-) Still havent recieved a response regarding my complaint yet too....

[Abby25]

Hope the info may be of help ....

 

I only sent a CCA request - just to see how the bank would respond - they haven't responded - defaulted the account (with a dud DN) and passed to a DCA - who stated that bank accts and ODs are not covered whatsoever by the CCA (silly billy's ) - who were subsequently educated on the regulation of ods, and what I wanted to satisfy my CCA request and close the dispute ..... they have chosen not to reply at all .... nice !

 

By the way, there is absolutely no argument over whether ODs are regulated or not ... they are, as I have had confirmed by the CRAs - which is the basis upon which they are permitted to record your OD data within your credit report.

 

They only grey area is the part v exemption - and whether the bank claim it in their INITIAL response to your CCA request - if they don;t then they are confirming that they do not wish to rely upon this exemption ( in essence inferring that your OD was set up under full CCA74 regs) - and therefore that a correctly executed credit agreement is reqd for enforcement) - of course if you have a duff DN then this also adds weight to the arguement .... although OD dns are tricky to argue under the S87 regs ... but the more you throw back at them, indicating that you know what you are talking about .. they more likely they are to sculk off and put their energies into someone else who will roll over without a fight ... and thats what its all about .... !!!

 

Abs x

[DDWales]

Update. Just opened a new letter today from Nelson Guest and Partners- are these still Westsnot? Letter was recieved on 18th March and dated 11th. They have kindly offfered me a 20% discount to be paid by 21st March?? Now if im not mistaken, and from reading around CAG, aren't discounts usually offered when theres no chance of any paperwork found etc?? Also, Lloyds have finally acknowledged my complaint but thats it! There's no sign of my SAR yet ethier...

[Bazooka Boo]

SAR should be answered within 40 days, if they fail to do so, send them a :BA and give them a further 7 or 14 days in which to comply before you report them to the ICO.

 

Discounts are normally indicative of the unenforceable nature of said debt, if they could claim the full amount legally, then why don't they?

 

What are Lloyds doing about your complaint?

[Guest]

dd

imo. re sar non compliance, exhaust their internal complaints first, and then the ICO if no luck, before doing an LB A. taking 'them' to court without exhausting any poss 'domestic' remedies is risky, particularly re costs.

Edited March 21, 2011 by Ford
typ

[DDWales]

SAR should be answered within 40 days, if they fail to do so, send them a :BA and give them a further 7 or 14 days in which to comply before you report them to the ICO.

 

Discounts are normally indicative of the unenforceable nature of said debt, if they could claim the full amount legally, then why don't they?

 

What are Lloyds doing about your complaint?

 

I'll have to check with regards to the 40 days. Dont think thats far off the 40 days-may be over that limit now.

With regards to the complaint all ive had is a bog standard acknowledgement letter.

As for the discount side of things im quite intregued! As noted I thought that it would only apply to an non enforceble CCA??

[DDWales]

dd

imo. re sar non compliance, exhaust their internal complaints first, and then the ICO if no luck, before doing an LB A. taking 'them' to court is risky re costs.

 

Cheers Ford, I will. I want to make them understand that I wont be treated this way. Was happy to do the right thing and pay things back and was a loyal customer for over a decade until this happened.