Turning the tables on DCA Bullies

[questioner]

Turning the tables on DCA Bullies

 

Have you got a genuine complaint with a creditor, are you fed up with the endless templated letters that do nothing to resolve that complaint.

 

Are you confused that having failed to deal with your complaint properly, the Original Creditor/Bank then passes your account on to a Debt Collection Agency, the Robinson Ways, Moorcrofts, Wescots, Apex’s and Blair Oliver Scotts of this world.

 

Now you have the endless stream of templated letters coming from a different source. Only they are now are a little more aggressive and intimidating.

 

The “contact us within 48 hours” letters that are just a device in order to have you telephone them where they then have undocumented access to you.

 

The post cards that advise someone “will be calling you on such and such a date”

 

Letters from the “Pre Court Division” proclaiming that, Intended Litigation is imminent.

That they have no choice but to advise their client to proceed to litigation.

 

That they have researched the Land Registry and know you are a home owner. That a charging order will be obtained (despite the fact that they need to take you to court and win, etc).

 

That they have confirmed with a major utility company in order to confirm your address, despite the fact that they have written to you umpteen times previously and you have responded from that very same address??

 

The letters that at first glance look like a court forms

 

The endless phone calls?

 

You write back time and time again, advising that the account is in dispute with the original lender, and will they please stop harassing you and return the account to the OC for resolution of your genuine complaint, but the letters and calls, they continue to pile up.

 

This Cagger became so fed up with this that after responding to the umpteenth letter decided to advise the DCA that should they continue to write knowing that they were in breach of OFT guidelines. That whilst there was a genuine complaint and it still remained unresolved, then I would be charging them an administration fee for each letter that required my time consuming response.

 

The first DCA was sent 2 invoices these were ignored and the letters continued. An N1 was issued for unpaid invoices. On receipt of the claim form, the DCA paid up.

 

The 2nd DCA was a tougher nut to crack, this took 4 invoices. The DCA responded by saying that they knew of no law that allowed a debtor to charge them for responding to their threatening letters (they actually wrote “requests for payment of outstanding debt”) So another trip to the court to submit a further N1.

 

The DCA decided they would defend and their incoherent defence was received and a response witness statement (WS) was submitted.

 

This WS detailed the harassment endured before frustration took over. There was a genuine and unresolved complaint with the original creditor. That the OC had written advising that they knew they would be unable to enforce in a court. That despite being advised on more than one occasion of this, the letters from the DCA became increasingly aggressive. Included with the WS was a copy of the OFT guidelines that pointed out where the DCA was breaching them.

 

False representation of authority and/or legal position

2.4 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

b. falsely implying or stating that action can or will be taken when it legally cannot.

Physical/psychological harassment

2.5 Putting pressure on debtors or third parties is considered to be oppressive.

2.6 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

h. ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment.

 

A copy of the letter from the OC with the statement that they knew the agreement was unenforceable, highlighted. Therefore the threats of court and charging orders, threats of bailiffs calling were just empty threats, amounting to harassment. That having given fair warning to the DCA that the invoices would be sent should they continue, it was believed the amounts were due and payable. Would the court please see it that way too?

 

This was submitted with the Allocation Questionnaire at court last week and a copy sent to the DCA.

 

This week, a cheque was received with the DCA requesting me to please file discontinuance at court.

 

Another one bites the dust.

 

Notes:

State fairly that you are permitting the DCA at least 2 weeks to pay you your admin fee.

Do make sure that you have a genuine and unresolved complaint in with the Original Creditor.

Do make sure that you have advised the DCA on more than one occasion of this and ask them politely to return the account to the original creditor.

Always ensure that the DCA has received your letters/admin charges, via Recorded or Special delivery so they cannot plead ignorance at a later date.

Do not be put off by their cries that you have no legal right to charge them for soliciting a response.

It is also worth remembering that a DCA has plenty to lose if you take them to court and win. They do not want word getting out that they have been sued by a party that they are supposed to be pursuing for their client.

 

This news leak would open the floodgate against them so the logical and most economically viable option is to give you your admin fee and move on.

 

You can win – I have, several times!

[questioner]

Hi Guys – I am glad this has helped a little.

 

Believe me, I have been through hell and high water with the many accounts I have placed into dispute via PPI misselling, absence of appropriate documentation etc.

 

Believe me though it can get a full time job dealing with issuing out your admin charges to the sharks.

 

When you bill them they almost always write back in great detail to ‘advise’ you that they do not recognise your terms and will certainly ‘not’ be paying your admin fee.

This is to be expected, ergo do not let it deter you one iota from pushing on into the battle.

They are soliciting a response from you and you have fairly warned them not to do so therefore you are making a reasonable administration charge to cover your time and effort in responding to their intimidating nonsense. The onus is on them, after you have informed them of your dispute, to address the issue with the original creditor, not you.

 

Is this necessary or can you just get a certificate of posting from the post office and then quote the Interpretation Act when they deny receipt? When you point out that you have proof of your letters being correctly addressed, with the correct postage, and that it's therefore the responsibility of the DCA to prove that they didn't receive the letters they start to think twice. I found that this approach can "intimidate" them as they then believe that they are dealing with someone who appears to know what they're talking about. Great article by the way.

 

I personally feel that recorded or special delivery is the best option. Proof of posting is cheaper I know and ok for lesser deeds but you will feel better knowing you have right on your side and can show a judge that the letters have arrived.

Things can move fast and the last thing you want on your mind with a pushy shark is whether or not your letter has in fact arrived at their door.

I do however advise you to regularly chase up letters via the PO Track and Trace facility as I have had quite a few go AWOL .

 

Once your NI has gone in it gets interesting as by now the shark finally realises at last that you are NOT fooling around and WILL take them to the cleaners if they fail to wake up.

 

Charge rates are something that is open to further debate too. I feel at this stage that keeping your charges reasonable is prudent and will give you a greater chance of the shark paying up early to avoid further aggro.

 

As to Phone calls...

 

Well I am a confirmed fan of Truecall . If you are being hassled then get one fast. You will love the peace it grants you. It also gives you the ability to keep a record on your PC of who calls you and when. Do not waste your valuable admin time on the fools behind these odious companies. Do not speak to them.

 

Red letters used to turn my stomach – now I smile and soon convert them into admin charges. The lady assistant at the small claims court is used to seeing me there and beginning to be quite helpful.

 

 

 

Edited April 29, 2010 by questioner

[questioner]

interesting too many dca are sending out t(h)reats without checking if they have a legal right to collect or indeed if the debt has a legit dispute against it surely this is not hard for them to do

 

 

Very true – I usually remind them of this when sending in my initial admin charge letter.

Their customary response is to say they accepted the OC’s file in “Good Faith”... and/or that they will place the account “on hold”.

 

Sadly for ‘them’ this unwanted response is neither the confirmation of account closure nor a court summons that one requested, so guess what? It incurs an admin fee (with suitable dated and priced up invoice) with the next response!

 

 

One thing is certain 100%

The filthy, misery – laden UK DCA industry does ‘not’ want the land to get hold of any of this news....

 

Imagine the ramifications if banks cannot enforce their twisted iron will on millions of victims, via their aggressive pet sharks!

 

I, like others, have made it a life-quest to give back some of the misery these institutions create in 21 century UK.

Edited April 29, 2010 by questioner

[questioner]

I may revise my charges later but at present I usually threaten then charge the sharks one lump sum for simplicity.

[questioner]

 

I'll send him a few invoices for wasting my time harrassing me about a debt that is statute barred WHEN he has already been informed of this fact and choses to disregard it.

 

Yes - get your invoice in ASAP but only after you have clearly stated that you expect either a court summons or notice of closure. Any other response from them is unacceptable and will incur an admin charge. Simple

 

See their silly red letters as an fine opportunity to cream them and not a threat.

 

It is amazing how silent they become, subsequent to one's NI popping into their mail boxes.

[questioner]

As CB suggests - if they have gone on to terminate after issuing a dodgy DN then they may have problems.

[questioner]

Phone calls off DCA bullies?

 

 

Yes, I handle them appropriately - via my friend TRUCALL which zaps them all including the ones who fail to leave call back numbers..

[questioner]

Banks and DCA's wish to get this matter hushed up 'very' fast.

 

Sadly for them they are losing this vital battle.

 

I recently had a significant victory against one of the largest lenders (no names mentioned just yet) that had sent in a defence against my fair admin claim and later met me in court.

 

They lost and it is now hurting their pockets.

 

The main thing is to keep it all simple, logical and to be prepared to meet them in court if they will not back down. Most cases will be settled by them before it gets that far though.

 

It is usually a cheaper option for the sharks to pay up on your fee than risk losing at court.

 

Rest assured though; they all seem to 'advise' you that your fee is unacceptable in the first instance.

 

The ramifications of all this is utterly immense for the banks that rely of the **** DCAs to hunt their victims to despair. Without the threat of unfair collection activities to enforce their iron will the banks are totally screwed. DCAs will not want to risk admin fees and costly court cases and will be forced into checking if agreements are in fact properly executed and enforceable BEFORE taking them on.

If the OFT guidelines and regulations on unfair collection activity worked as they should to protect the Consumer then we would NOT have to be forced into this action.

Edited June 23, 2010 by questioner

[questioner]

Good stuff folks - it is essential to keep the pressure up and I am glad that others are seeing some well-deserved success.

 

The sharks have twisted the law and had it their own way for far to long.

 

Q

[questioner]

I recently has a good win in court, regarding an admin fee, against a pesky in-house agent of a bank and I want to start a new thread about taking this successful judgment further

 

More soon...

 

[questioner]

Thanks CB - you beat me to the punch...lol

 

 

Q x

[questioner]

Whilst being careful - my attitude is take them on and make them sweat.

 

I think you will find the a judge will not wish to be pestered by a belligerent DCA who is frantically disputing your small admin fee as their nonsense is disproportionate to costs - regardless of that they bleat about "contract law"...

[questioner]

Should you fall outside of my fourteen day terms of settlement of such an invoice then I will seek remedy in the small claims court against you, without further notice.

 

Yes - play it nice and polite and be prepared for either a letter saying you have no right to furnish them with an admin fee or alternatively a letter advising they are sending the file back to source, which is good news...

 

To the former claim, and if they persist in their harassment, you have the option of issuing your admin fee then ultimately the N1.

 

To the latter DCA advice - celebrate that you have defeated yet another lowlife DCA that has run away with its tail between its legs.

 

When the next form of pond life comes sniffing make sure you advise them that the last slime-ball DCA dropped the case and sent it back to mommy.

 

Eventually you will create a very handy record of unsuccessful sharks that have come sniffing and been scared away.

 

And do always make sure you forward all your victory attacks to OFT etc, so as they know that the ****** companies concerned are breaching their debt collection guidelines.

 

Together we can get many shut down via their licences being rightly removed!

 

DCAs are of course the **** of all human society, as many realise who have been affected by their illegal activities. They prey on the weak and helpless and create misery and doom for thousands of families. Their smiling internet advertisements mislead millions who do not know what lies beneath the glossy image.

 

I believe it is now our duty to take the fight to these despicable monsters in any way we can.

[questioner]

Is this thread just hot air or has anybody got somewhere with this?

 

Yes - me !!!!

 

 

Right – for starters it is not ‘hot air’.

 

It would be a big mistake to think that.

 

I have threatened several DCAs with admin changes, got so far as to issue them with the NI and several have paid up before it went to court. One gave in to 4 admin charges rather than risk a hearing.

 

I have also taken a bank to court for the same. Now they were very slow and seemed to think it was a huge joke, so when they failed to get the relevant paperwork into court on time the judged ruled, to their horror, in MY favour and I got the claim amount plus costs.

 

The bank were NOT happy bunnies and their solicitor was so upset that he went back into court to plead with the beck after the hearing and was virtually chucked out on his ear. Poor little mite.

 

I lost one but then again I am not so sure it I really did lose it.

 

My claim was dismissed yet the bank had asked for over a grand in costs – they only got less than a hundred so in effect they lost a great deal and I stood my ground.

However something very good came out of this one.

 

The judge kindly advised me that in future I would do better to seek not admin fees but ‘compensation’ costing for the sharks intimidating me.

Get the evidence that there is a valid dispute and that the bank/DCA is breaching the CCA/OFT guidelines on collection activity and then bang in a claim for harassment compensation.

 

The judge was all for this so I want to take this exciting issue further soon as possible.

 

All in all I am hundreds of pounds UP on the admin situation as most sharks DO NOT want to risk a court job and would rather pay up.

 

However my advice now would be to have a crack at the comp for harassment claim as advised by the amicable judge.

 

The more account you have in dispute the better for its only a question of time before one of the sharks makes a mistake and hands you a gift horse of harassment that breaches the OFT regs.

 

Learn to turn it all into your favour.

 

Go get ‘em!

[questioner]

Yes - the Compensation method is best perhaps as recommended by my friendly judge....

 

Admins or comp - all very similar BUT best to play the way the system is arranged for max effect....so long as it creates havoc in shark land that is all that matters.

[questioner]

Hi Fred

 

Sorry for delay - have been doing a spot of shark fishing...lol

 

 

 

Well that is a tall order as we have a fair few debts with HBoS, Barclays, Capital One, Citi, HFC, and associated sharks.

 

99% ARE DISPUTED DUE TO THE FOLLOWING.

 

Multiple mis selling of Payment Protection Insurance Policies

Breaches of Office of Fair Trading Debt Collection Guidelines

Harassment by 3rd Party Agencies instructed by HBOS

Breaches of Data Protection Act 1998

Breaches of Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

 

In a nutshell all token payments were halted around the summer of 2009, following delivery old crappity agreements, which were largely just semi-illegible application forms or agreements that did not hold all prescribed terms. You can search out some of my scans re the poor quality of paperwork on my other threads.

 

Threats to take me to court have been gladly accepted with open arms yet the ****** banks involved have preferred to intimidate with DCAs.

 

Naughty DCAs have been charged admin fees on several occasions although some have wandered off rather fast after seeing that I meant business.

 

The only one that beat me in court in fact lost out greatly. Their cocky legal eagle was sent hundreds of miles to our local court. He claimed over a grand in expenses but the judge 'only' gave the poor little bald chap 90 quid (NOT a happy bunnie)...this ensured that they lost a great deal and I had a nice day's sport for my 90 quid...plus some good advice off the beak of how to get them better next time, re banging in a claim related to NOT admin fees but compensation for harassment after CCA breaches etc. All well worth the day's fun..lol

 

The telephone intimidation is now all gone forever as my little Truecall pal tells them where to go, ensuring that I have a nice log of their calls without me even knowing that they have called. Any consumer who does NOT own a Truecall is clearly insane – go get one and your life will change more than you know.

 

Almost all accounts have PPI attached, which was unsuitable so that has ensured ongoing complaints to OFT, FOS and all other authorities.

 

In many cases banks appear now to owe me more than they say I owe them and this is especially so when the contractual interest is applied to my sheets.

 

Once they see your PPI schedules they clearly start to chew their nasty finger nails to the bone and rethink their unlawful harassment tactics. The more DCAs you can kill off from the bank the more entertaining it gets when you write back to the bank (plus the authorities) to inform them of their latest FAILURE...

 

I note here the Capone has now closed one account I had with them even though there was a balance of alleged hundreds of pounds left...another account I have with them holds a great deal of PPI which potentially kills that particular balance.

 

Do please make sure you tell the authorities when these monsters hassle you as it all gets logged and helps towards them LOSING THEIR CREDIT LICENCE.

 

I know that much of the alleged help (don't laugh too hard) that FOS etc claim to offer you is bank – orientated so I have no delusions about them. Nevertheless - go through the official motions and use whatever weapon you can in the battle.

 

Once a solid attitude is formed in one’s mind the whole issue changes drastically.

 

Banks and DCAs feed off fear so remove that fear and they are toothless cowards.

 

Their biggest threat is to take you to court so if you are sure of your case then politely say – “OK suckers; here I am what you waiting for?”

 

They are the bad guys who have been ripping us off with massive interest rates, charges and PPI etc so we have the moral high ground here and let no one claim otherwise.

 

Their PATHETIC agreements were hashed together improperly in a huge bid to make them billions and they are reaping what they sowed.

I for one am not going to take it!

 

Strike back hard!

 

And in my case even if I ever had to pay anything back they would only get a quid per month and they know it...ho ho ...

 

Anyway – keep it real and stay logically on top – the enemy can only win if you let them...

 

I am discovering at as the 6-year war progresses they are making more and more mistakes. I even had a terminally silly cow from a Scottish bank tell me that she had no records of any dispute with me. How odd when I have a shed full of recorded letters since 2009 plus ongoing complaints to authorities...they really are plonkers at times... great sport though..lol

 

The banks have messed this country up so badly with their maladministration therefore it’s up to us dudes to hit back and expose their failings.

 

MOST OF ALL TELL EVERYONE ABOUT CAG!

 

Hope this helps.

 

Now what sport with the postie bring today....

 

 

 

Q

Edited November 29, 2010 by questioner

[questioner]

you will find they will ALWAYS find newer and nastier ways of harrassing people who may for reasons totally out of their control have got into debt.

 

Jimbo – chin up mate.

You have gotta get a new attitude it you wish to be effective in this war.

 

Yes – they are terrible we all know this, but ‘you’ can use it all to your advantage.

 

I have happily seen off, Apex, Credit Solutions, Wescot, Moorcroft, Iqor, 1st Credit Reliable Collections, Robinson Way, Mercers, Cap quest, Calder, Blair Oliver ....blar blar .. and many more forms of various pond life and several have in fact made me considerably richer, thanks to their intimidation tactics...leading to me issuing claims against them.

There are others but at this moment I have forget their names ..lol

 

The ones that were the most horrible, and most intimidating, were the ones easiest to sue or at least get rid of.

 

Tingy – you have made the first step towards the light my friend with your new toy...halleluiah.. lol

 

TC is cheap at double the price..

 

Save all the logs of calls dates etc and use it against them. ICO may be interested in it too.

 

TRUECALL NAMED PRODUCT OF THE YEAR

 

We’re delighted to have received another award for trueCall at the government backed ‘Growing Business Awards’.

 

 

This joins many other awards in our trophy cabinet:

 

- Startups 100 Award – Britain’s top 100 Startup businesses

- South London Business award for Innovation

- Computer Shopper Ultimate Award

- ‘Gadget of the week’ – The Independent

- ‘Gadget of the week’ – The Sunday Times

- Startups ‘Product of the Year’

 

 

The formal press statement says -

 

The achievements of Britain’s small and medium sized companies (SMEs) were celebrated at an awards ceremony in London this evening (25 November), with Mark Prisk MP, Minister of State for Business and Enterprise, praising their contribution the UK's economic growth agenda.

 

The Growing Business Awards, hosted by the CBI and Real Business, honoured 11 companies and individuals who judges felt had made the biggest contribution to entrepreneurial business success in the last year.

 

trueCall, the plug-in nuisance phone call blocking technology, designed by Steve Smith and John Price won the new product of the year award. The device acts as a telephone 'spam filter' and has been praised for its role in relieving distress over unwanted calls.

[questioner]

So long as one is confident that they have a good solid case against such DCAs then ok - go for it. But be advised that some WILL take it all the way. They may also win if they find a supportive judge. This can mean one will be landed with costs too.

 

In my experience it is now advisable to issue claims for compensation for breaches in the CCA that have created harassment for one, rather than blast into claims for admin charges levied against them. The former is a safer option...

 

Some DCAs 'will' still pay up on admin charges (I hit one with four £50.00 admin fees plus costs and they paid up after the NI arrived) rather than risk a court visit, but I reiterate that claiming against them for CCA breaches is more advisable. I got this from a judge too.

[questioner]

Questioner, a question please.

 

Must the account have been in dispute at the time of the OFT breech?

 

Only I have evidence of a clear breech and the DCA has admitted as much, however the account is not in dispute at present (but will be soon)

 

ty

 

MC

 

Sorry pal - only just clocked this comment.

 

A breach is a breach, regardless of it being in 'dispute' or otherwise I would think.

 

The **** break the regulations and we make them pay the price..this is the name of the game...!

 

I recently got to use FOS to good advantage against one DCA. At first the FOS backed the DCA, as I predicted they would. However, following further evidence that this shark had breached OFT regs the FOS informed me that the DCA wished to offer compensation, rather than let FOS take a chunk out of them via a costly investigation.

 

DCAs are cold-hearted cowards and will frequently pay up rather than risk either FOS intervention or court costs...

 

My advice is to NEVER GIVE UP and to remove all emotion from your mindset when dealing with DCAs. If you can do this you will become more likely to win.

 

Never stop recording ALL their moves and complain constantly to as many regulators as you can.

 

You will get set-backs that WILL wind you up terribly due to the injustice of the situation. You have to move forward and keep fighting and never surrender! Analyse everything good or bad that comes through your post box and USE IT!

 

If you can take successful action against a DCA then use this to attack the original creditor coward that set them on you. One complaint often leads to 3 others.. lol

 

I am currently pursuing three DCAs that have closed their files on me.

 

 

They think its all over - it aint..lol!!

 

Go get 'em guys!