MBNA Loan PPI

[banker_rhymes_with]

Hello moose73!

 

Before doing anything else, I would ask to see a copy of the Loan Agreement.

 

MBNA's Loan Agreements were often highly suspect if PPI formed part of the deal.

 

Most seen so far on CAG are s18 cock-ups, so may not be enforceable.

 

In which case, you want every penny of the PPI back, plus s69 County Courts Act 8% Simple Interest, plus you may like to investigate asking for compound contractual interest back in restitution, i.e. in addition to s69 and at their commercial rates.

 

Bearing in mind MBNA likes to charge the world and his dog 34.95%, then it won't be too hard to show that MBNA were busy earning that amount of money on your money, the money they took from you unlawfully via the mis-sold PPI.

 

Restitution is the issue of asking them for the interest they have earned on your money.

 

However, the key is to establish if the Agreement itself is pants, as it could well be.

 

Send a s77 Request off to Wescot and MBNA, and also send MBNA a full SAR. You must get to see all the dirty details they hold on you in relation to this matter.

 

I do hope this helps.

 

Cheers,

BRW

Edited February 20, 2010 by banker_rhymes_with
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[banker_rhymes_with]

Hello moose73!

 

I have the original loan agreement

Don't tell them, because it's likely they won't have it, or won't have a readable copy of it.

 

Anyway, I think I can see why MBNA were so keen to sell it to Westcot.

 

This looks like a classic s18 cock-up by MBNA. There are two Loans here, a Loan and a Loan for PPI.

 

Time for you to do some reading on s18 issues, but the bottom line is the two Loans should each have their own Prescribed Terms stated.

 

MBNA have lumped them together, so neither Loan is stated correctly. So, it looks like both are irredeemably unenforceable.

 

They owe you at least the PPI back!

 

Cheers,

BRW

Edited February 20, 2010 by banker_rhymes_with
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[banker_rhymes_with]

Hello Moose73!

 

I think you should tread water on the PPI Claim, just for now, because it's highly likely that you may well have an unenforceable Loan Agreement, because of the way MBNA have set out two Loans into one, i.e. the Loan itself, and then the Loan for the PPI.

 

If the Prescribed Terms for each are not stated correctly such as, say, they are combined into one, as if the two were one Loan, then MBNA could well have a problem, as could anyone who has bought the Debt from them.

 

I think you have a bigger fish to fry, so my advice is to take a step back, and start from the beginning with this:

 

(1) Send a s77 CCA Request to who ever thinks they now own the Debt.

 

(2) Send a SAR to anyone in the chain, starting with MBNA, and then to anyone else who thinks they have bought the right to extract money from you.

 

While you are waiting for the above, bone up on:

 

(3) The Consumer Credit Act 1974 and in particular, s18.

 

(4) PPI Re-Claims in general, including all aspects of how PPI has been mis-sold in the past.

 

(5) Contractual Interest Claims and Restitution, and especially these cases:

 

(a) Westdeutsche v Islington Borough Council [1996] A.C. 669, [1996] 2 All E.R. 961

 

(b) Halliday v HBOS

 

© Sempra Metals v Inland Revenue [2007] UKHL 34

 

(6) Methods to calculate s69 County Courts Act 1984 8% Simple Interest, and methods to calculate Compound Contractual Interest.

 

 

The point being, if you tackle this well, you should get the blood suckers off your back for good, and also end up with a fat cheque as well.

 

Get it wrong, and all that will happen is MBNA and crew will blow raspberries at you and at best, they will deduct a little PPI from what they think you owe them, then they will hound you for money you probably do not now owe them if the Agreement is flawed.

 

I hope this helps.

 

Cheers,

BRW

[banker_rhymes_with]

Hello Moose73!

 

Is there a letter template for the s77 CCA Request?

I think there is in the Forum Template Library, but I can never find it either!

 

The main issue is to send the Request via Special Delivery, and send it to the Registered Office of the group concerned. Look that up at the Companies House Web Site for Free, and send the Request addressed to The Company Secretary.

 

All you need to say is that it is a full Request made under Section 77(1) of The Consumer Credit Act 1974, and enclose the Statutory Fee payable of £1.

 

I would also add a short paragraph making it clear the payment is a Statutory Fee, and must not be regarded as a payment towards any debt.

 

The key issues are:

 

• Head the letter with the Account Number (if known).
  

 

• Send it to their official Registered Office address and addressed to the primary contact for the proper Service of documents (i.e. The Company Secretary, Registered Office Address).
  

 

• State it is a full s77(1) Request (do not say more, they will know that you want everything that you are entitled to, and this avoids them saying you did not ask for a specific part of a full response).
  

 

• Enclose the Statutory Fee as a £1 Postal Order (i.e. no signature, and cross it payee only).
  

 

• Do not sign the letter, just print your name.
  

I hope this helps.

 

Cheers,

BRW

[banker_rhymes_with]

Hello Sharpgun!

 

Good to hear you won, perhaps you can Post up full details of how it went.

 

now send the lba

 

I'd advise against this, for now, because Moose73 has a few issues to get sorted before pressing on with this.

 

Please see my Post #9 above, which covers the issues that Moose73 needs to get their head around before shooting off half-cocked.

 

Cheers,

BRW

[banker_rhymes_with]

Hello Moose73!

 

I know I may have a case for the whole loan, however I did have the money in the first place.

Sorry for any confusion. I'm not suggesting you get the whole Loan back, that would be hard. Likewise, it would be hard to get the Payments back too.

 

The key point on the s18 issue, is the Agreement that you signed is highly likely to be seriously flawed, i.e. irredeemably unenforceable.

 

If you have already re-paid the Capital amount, then you are also morally in the clear, because you have re-paid what was given to you.

 

The Agreement, however, was made with the intention of getting you to repay not just the Loan, but a lot of Interest too. If the Agreement is flawed, then MBNA cannot force you to pay that Interest.

 

MBNA were also greedy in mis-selling the PPI, because that was a nice little earner for them. They probably only paid 5% of its value, and charged you 100%, plus interest.

 

MBNA were not selling you a Loan, they were shafting you for the PPI, and the Loan was the vehicle that they used to plunder your wealth.

 

From your original Post, it sounds like you are still lumbered with Payments for this Loan + PPI. My point is if the Agreement is flawed, then you can stop Payments, and never make another one ever again...provided you gather the information first, and establish that you are happy that is indeed the case.

 

You'll need to read up about s18, and you will also need to await the results of your s77(1) and S-A-R Requests to see the full picture.

 

Now, back to the PPI...

 

If you plan this well, establish the validity of the Loan before you fire off any full Claim for the PPI, then it's quite possible that you can get MBNA to pay you a not inconsiderable sum for both the PPI, but s69 County Courts Act 1984 8% Simple Interest on top, and also, potentially, an even larger Claim for Compound Contractual Interest in Restitution on top of that...at what ever Rate you can nail them at. That could be as high as 34.95%, because MBNA have been charging that rate to many thousands of people, so there is little doubt that they have been earning 34.95% on your money.

 

Restitution is the concept of asking MBNA to hand over their ill-gotten gains while they lent your PPI money out to other people at 34.95%. If you Compound that, the figures shoot up. So, well worth considering, but you need to bone up on the issues.

 

A safer bet is to just ask them for whatever Rate they were charging you, but don't fire that Claim off before you have established if the Agreement was flawed or not.

 

If you do fire the Claim off too soon, while the Agreement is still live and you are paying a Debt that you may not need to pay, then the danger is that MBNA and/or who ever has bought the Debt, may just pull another fast one on you, and absorb the PPI Refund into the outstanding Debt, and stick two fingers up at you when they break the news that they still want you to keep paying.

 

...just been through the old MBNA credit card statements from 2001 to 2005 and there is also £2784 of PPi there too!!

Great! But get the facts straight on all of the above, or else MBNA may also just absorb the Card PPI Refund back onto the outstanding Loan.

 

They are tricky, so don't cut them any slack.

 

I hope this makes sense.

 

Cheers,

BRW

Edited February 21, 2010 by banker_rhymes_with
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[banker_rhymes_with]

Hello Moose73!

 

What should I expect to see back from the CCA request?

 

If MBNA stay true to form, my bet is you will soon get:

 

 

• An unreadable Agreement.
  

 

• An unenforceable Agreement via s18.
  

 

• Both of the above in one!
  

 

But let's see what they come up with this time!

 

Cheers,

BRW

[banker_rhymes_with]

Hello Moose73!

 

The CCA request was due back today, but nothing received.

 

So what now?

I'd give it another week, the Deadline means little to them, and not hitting it won't perturb them in the slightest.

 

However, do keep all Envelopes, because this particular bunch of bankers have a tendency for being fully aware of the Deadlines, but they try to exploit the fog of the postal system by pretending they have met the Deadline by fiddling the Date of the Letter.

 

For example, by sending a letter late, but with a date that suggests they responded on time. The Envelope might just nail that little game of theirs for you.

 

Their strategy works on the basis that months down the line, when this might be used against them, they will hope you either never kept the Envelope, nor made a note of the actual Day of Delivery of their letter.

 

So, from now on, when your Post arrives, get in the habit of booking it in. Keep a log of dates and keep all of their Envelopes.

 

This won't necessarily win anything for you for in the short term, but the potential is there. Likewise, if your records are meticulous, and if this ever gets to Court, then your meticulous records may well convince a Judge that your word is worth more than that of a bank that cannot get its act together. A long track record of carefully logged letters proves you have handled the issues with great care.

 

Also just read another thread where the advise was to go FOS first.

This may help:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/payment-protection-insurance-ppi/250560-ppi-newbie.html#post2811957

 

Cheers,

BRW

Edited March 8, 2010 by banker_rhymes_with
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[banker_rhymes_with]

Hello Moose73!

 

FOS are pretty damned useless, but do tend to support Consumers when it comes to PPI.

 

They will take forever and a day, but it's a safe bet with few risks, so by all means push that for now.

 

But as mentioned, if you want compound contractual interest in Restitution, then you will need to consider heading for Court.

 

If FOS come up trumps, just make sure you get the PPI back as a cheque, and do not accept it as Full & Final. Leave the option open to take them to Court for the rest.

 

Cheers,

BRW

[banker_rhymes_with]

Hello Moose73!

 

...had another letter from MBNA saying they are still investigating the complaint!

 

Rest assured, they won't be doing anything.

 

Their system spews these holding letters out at random intervals, to try and give the impression they are an organised and responsible institution, and not a grubby rabble of number-money lenders.

 

At some stage, after they feel they have kept you waiting long enough, and any money they owe safely out of your reach for as long as possible, they will respond to say, Foxtrot Oscar, we are not paying you anything.

 

So, I'd keep preparing for Court, and keep refining your strategy. Once you are 100% clear, then proceed at your pace, not theirs.

 

Cheers,

BRW

[banker_rhymes_with]

Hello M73!

 

I guess next step would be small claims for the difference.

Yes.

 

Read up about compound interest and restitution, and this Case:

Sempra Metals Ltd v. Revenue & Anor [2007] UKHL 34 (18 July 2007)

 

There's also a good Thread by CAG ID Dad on a High Court Appeal case he lost, and why, and why Sempra would've helped him no end had it only come up in time for him to revise his Claim.

 

The key is Unjust Enrichment, and you will be wanting that back.

 

That being the money they made, on your money, while they Unlawfully kept their sticky fingers on it and lent it out to others to make pots of money from doing so.

 

Cheers,

BRW

Edited June 2, 2010 by banker_rhymes_with
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