Advent Computer Training (Barclays Career Development Loan) discussion

[Mat_F]

I borrowed the money to pay off my CDL before the interest started, so I'm pretty much stuck at the moment until I know more about what is going on.

[greg&caroline]

Hi guys,my husband is in same,we borrowed the money to pay of cdl before interest started...but we phoned barclays yesterday and thay confirmed will find another trainin provider for him, thay checked all details,and said thay will send letter with confirmation.i also took detils of person we spoken to,so it dosnt look that bad i think.Any way that what was on bbc news chanel...

.....

Advent arranged credit agreements through Barclays, which was made aware of the closure on Thursday morning.

Barclays spokesman Andrew Bond said: "We recognise how important this training is for people and have formed a dedicated team to help ANY STUDENTS find equivalent or better training at no extra cost to them so they can fulfil their aims."

 

 

 

fingers cross

[Tel 1980]

Just an update for everyone. I have just spoken to Government advise line for Career Development Loans who informed me that we are within our rights to transfer to another training provider should we wish to do so. Not sure how this will work however. She advised me to phone Consumer direct who asked about my loan agreement with Barclays which unfortunately I have mis-placed. Does anyone happen to have a copy? as the lady at consumer direct said that if it is a regulated agreement then I should be covered under the consumer credit act. Im not sure if it is a regulated loan so if anyone knows I would be grateful for the info.

[Mat_F]

Just an update for everyone. I have just spoken to Government advise line for Career Development Loans who informed me that we are within our rights to transfer to another training provider should we wish to do so. Not sure how this will work however. She advised me to phone Consumer direct who asked about my loan agreement with Barclays which unfortunately I have mis-placed. Does anyone happen to have a copy? as the lady at consumer direct said that if it is a regulated agreement then I should be covered under the consumer credit act. Im not sure if it is a regulated loan so if anyone knows I would be grateful for the info.

 

It is regulated under the Consumer Credit Act 1974. I scanned my CDL and Advent T&C's and emailed them to Trading Standards yesterday. I can email them to you if you PM me your email address.

 

Barclays are trying to get out of doing anything for anyone who has gone over the 2 year loan period and already paid off the loan. They did however imply that they are helping anyone that is still within the 2 year period or currently paying the loan back by Direct Debit. They are in no position to state who has or hasn't finished the course, so they have left themselves out in the open!!

[GimmeARefund]

Hello everybody,

 

What's the latest on this? I've literally JUST heared about this. No letters, no emails, nothing. I'm really quite shocked.

 

I took out a career development loan at the turn of 2008. I paid for MCSA with CCNA and I'm 3 modules from completion.

 

Joe

[Tel 1980]

Just had yet another conversation with Barclays and Consumer Direct. Consumer direct advised me to call Barclays and ask for some forms to make a claim under Section 75 etc. I did this but as has been stated before, the very unhelpful guy at Barclays said that due to my agreement with them going over the 2 year period stated on my agreement, they are no longer liable and and I have to finish payments. This whole thing is just a nightmare. Does anyone know of any loophole to get round this? I am now basically stuck with no training and £5000 of debt!!!! Gonna try trading standards and local MP but not sure if it will do any good.

[Mat_F]

I've just had a conversation with Trading Standards about the Barclays T&C's that I scanned an emailed to them. I've been told that as far as they can see, Barclays ARE liable under Section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and are also in no position to refuse anyone that is now past the 2 year loan period (or paid off the loan) an alternate training provider or possible refund.

[Bert Burling]

Hi all,

 

Started Mcse in march 2007 through a Barclays development loan. I have had a lot of trouble (personal) in the last two years.One reason i went through Advent is that i knew how flexible they would be. I had my course extended. I done the A+ and have been studying like crazy for the mcdst. I have pulled out all the info. In the paperwork for the Career development loan it states the following..........IT IS IMPORTANT FOR YOU TO BE AWARE THAT YOU WILL HAVE TO REPAY YOUR LOAN, EVEN IF YOU DO NOT COMPLETE THE COURSE. THIS APPLIES EVEN IF THE LEARNING PROVIDER CEASES TRADING OR YOU ARE DISSATISFIED WITH YOUR COURSE.

 

Im getting frantic now. I was made redundant in June and have depended on this course heavily only to find out that T&C's don't cover us!

 

One thing to think of.........If you had paid for your course with a Barclaycard would you be covered!!!!

 

I have been advised to go to the Banking Ombusman

 

Any help you guys can provide would be great.

 

Been trying to find the offical receiver but no joy as yet!!

 

Regards Burt

Edited February 11, 2010 by Bert Burling
error

[cashins]

IT IS IMPORTANT FOR YOU TO BE AWARE THAT YOU WILL HAVE TO REPAY YOUR LOAN, EVEN IF YOU DO NOT COMPLETE THE COURSE. THIS APPLIES EVEN IF THE LEARNING PROVIDER CEASES TRADING OR YOU ARE DISSATISFIED WITH YOUR COURSE.

 

 

I am not familiar with the Career Developement Loan agreement but generally:

 

S75 of the Consumer Credit Act applies to debtor-creditor-supplier agreements, in other words the money was paid directly to the supplier (Advent) by the creditor (Barclays).

 

If the money was paid to you by Barclays directly and with that you then the paid a supplier of your choice, the link is broken. Although the agreement is covered by the Act, S75 does not apply.

 

Did they pay the money directly to Advent or to you?

 

David

[MARTIN3030]

"IT IS IMPORTANT FOR YOU TO BE AWARE THAT YOU WILL HAVE TO REPAY YOUR LOAN, EVEN IF YOU DO NOT COMPLETE THE COURSE. THIS APPLIES EVEN IF THE LEARNING PROVIDER CEASES TRADING OR YOU ARE DISSATISFIED WITH YOUR COURSE."

 

 

I am not so sure if this could be challenged under UTCC or even the supply of goods and services act.

[Bert Burling]

Paid Direct to Advent, Been advised by trading standards to send the usual Breach of contract letter to advent and a letter to Barclay's stating that i am holding them partly liable for breach of contract under the consumer credit act. Sent them this morning so they should get it Tuesday...........wait and see.

[Mat_F]

IT IS IMPORTANT FOR YOU TO BE AWARE THAT YOU WILL HAVE TO REPAY YOUR LOAN, EVEN IF YOU DO NOT COMPLETE THE COURSE. THIS APPLIES EVEN IF THE LEARNING PROVIDER CEASES TRADING OR YOU ARE DISSATISFIED WITH YOUR COURSE.

 

That was stated in the information pack that came with the CDL paperwork, but it is not stated in the T&C's of the loan. Trading Standards have been through the Barclays T&C's that I sent to them and also asked me further questions about everything. They are telling me that Barclays are liable.

 

It seems that we are in a similar situation, although I started my course a few months after you did.

[cashins]

Paid Direct to Advent

 

Oops. Then I wouldn't be having it, in my opinion S75 applies.

 

IT IS IMPORTANT FOR YOU TO BE AWARE THAT YOU WILL HAVE TO REPAY YOUR LOAN, EVEN IF YOU DO NOT COMPLETE THE COURSE. THIS APPLIES EVEN IF THE LEARNING PROVIDER CEASES TRADING OR YOU ARE DISSATISFIED WITH YOUR COURSE.

As I understand it - the agreement itself states that in fact that it is a regulated agreement under CCA '74. No clause in a regulated agreement can overule the provisions of the Act - that's why they passed it into law.

They're trying it on.

David

[Bert Burling]

The only thing that will not stand in my favour is that i have been made redundant and i am not making the full monthly payments as im skint, and possibly the fact that Advent did extend my course (where do i stand with that).....Anyway im not the type of person to take things like this with a shrug of a shoulder..........Bring it on....will keep you updated

[cashins]

Administrators for:

 

Advent Computer Training Ltd - Company No 04511374.

(prev name was Advent consulting Ltd)

 

Access 2 Careers Ltd Company No 05260747

(prev name was Anglo Capital Ltd)

 

have now been appointed.

 

They are:

 

PKF Accountants

New Guild House

45 Great Charles St

Queensway

Birmingham

B3 2LX

 

They have a dedicated number for Advent/Access - 0844 770 1921

 

E-mail: adventcomputertraining@uk pkf.com

 

David

[ezcezc]

ive been on the phone to barclays and apparently i finished my course last month (news to me), and as of march ive got to start paying the loan back (£4750). now i wouldnt mind but ive not even done half of the course. i only found out about advent going bust yesterday (22/02) and that was from looking for other stuff online, no communication of any sort from advent or the administrators. i dont have my loan agreement or any of my paperwork from barclays or advent, would anyone be kind enough to send me a copy of the T&Cs.

chris

[Joseph_Pestell]

Just noticed that Barclays AGM is on 30 April at Festival Hall.

[AdventBarclaysVictim]

After finding out I'm in the same situation I've been trying to find out as much as I can. I contacted Trading Standards (actually in the form of Consumer Direct and I'd advise anyone to do the same and ask them what to do which involves writing to the Administrators and also Barclays). Seems like the final say lies with the Ombudsman so I'm not certain that we have no rights under Section 75 even with a Career Development Loan and having been studying for over 2 years (I've not been assured we do for certain either though)- the Ombudsman can be involved after replies are received to the letters (have been told to quote the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982 to the administrators and the Consumer Credit Act 1974 to Barclays but speak to Consumer Direct for full details of what to write). We need to send the letter to the administrators as a covering letter to Barclays, along with the letter to Barclays.

Hope this can be of help

[AdventBarclaysVictim]

I've just had a conversation with Trading Standards about the Barclays T&C's that I scanned an emailed to them. I've been told that as far as they can see, Barclays ARE liable under Section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and are also in no position to refuse anyone that is now past the 2 year loan period (or paid off the loan) an alternate training provider or possible refund.

Hope this is how it pans out - as far as I can tell the Ombudsman decides and can take into account fairness as well as the terms of contract.

Good luck everyone

[Joseph_Pestell]

Just noticed that Barclays AGM is on 30 April at Festival Hall.

 

A demo is planned. You can contact the organiser at 07760-170822

[AdventBarclaysVictim]

Posting this from the BPF thread - hopefully it can help BPF or CDL financed students but who knows:

8.- (1) A personal credit agreement is an agreement between an individual ("the debtor") and any other person ("the creditor") by which the creditor provides the debtor with credit of any amount.

 

12. A debtor-creditor-supplier agreement is a regulated consumer credit agreement being -

 

(a) a restricted use credit agreement which falls within section 11(1)(a), or

 

(b) a restricted use credit agreement which falls within section 11(1)(b) and is made by the creditor under preexisting arrangements, or in contemplation of future arrangements, between himself and the supplier, or

 

© an unrestricted use credit agreement which is made by the creditor under preexisting arrangements between himself and a person (the "supplier") other than the debtor in the knowledge that the credit is to be used to finance a transaction between the debtor and the supplier.

So we'd want our agreements to be Debtor-Creditor-Supplier agreements and hopefully (in my case and others I'm sure) it won't matter if we were told to put the Course End Date as 2 years from the Start Date given it was a Distance Learning Course we hadn't completed

Here's Section 11 of the same Consumer Credit Act 1974 too:

11 Restricted-use credit and unrestricted-use credit

(1) A restricted-use credit agreement is a regulated consumer credit agreement—

(a) to finance a transaction between the debtor and the creditor, whether forming part of that agreement or not, or

(b) to finance a transaction between the debtor and a person (the “supplier”) other than the creditor, or

© to refinance any existing indebtedness of the debtor’s, whether to the creditor or another person,

and “restricted-use credit” shall be construed accordingly.

(2) An unrestricted-use credit agreement is a regulated consumer credit agreement not falling within subsection (1), and “unrestricted-use credit” shall be construed accordingly.

(3) An agreement does not fall within subsection (1) if the credit is in fact provided in such a way as to leave the debtor free to use it as he chooses, even though certain uses would contravene that or any other agreement.

(4) An agreement may fall within subsection (1)(b) although the identity of the supplier is unknown at the time the agreement is made

[AdventBarclaysVictim]

There have been issues of dodgyness lets say with the Career Development Loan scheme before:

MPs to investigate Career Development Loans [problem] highlighted by IITT | News | IT Training Magazine | Training | Qualifications, Training, Careers | BCS - The Chartered Institute for IT

Given this and the obvious role Barclays is said to have played in Advent's problems (by withdrawing Finance agreements) surely it's only fair Barclays and/or the Government refund students?

[cashins]

Quick re-run of a post a made some time ago.

 

S75 of the Consumer Credit Act applies to debtor-creditor-supplier agreements, in other words the money was paid directly to the supplier (Advent) by the creditor (Barclays).

 

If the money was paid to you by Barclays directly and with that you then the paid a supplier of your choice, the link is broken. Although the agreement is covered by the Act, S75 does not apply.

 

If the money was paid directly to Advent for the purpose of funding the course the above applies - full stop.

 

Despite what Barclays will tell you and with experience of them they well try to defend it in court, (at least ever up to the front door of the court) - you have recourse to Barclays for the cost of the course.

 

David

[AdventBarclaysVictim]

Quick re-run of a post a made some time ago.

 

 

 

If the money was paid directly to Advent for the purpose of funding the course the above applies - full stop.

 

Despite what Barclays will tell you and with experience of them they well try to defend it in court, (at least ever up to the front door of the court) - you have recourse to Barclays for the cost of the course.

 

David

Thanks David,

Yeah I was hopeful when I read your previous post on page 2, including this:

As I understand it - the agreement itself states that in fact that it is a regulated agreement under CCA '74. No clause in a regulated agreement can overule the provisions of the Act - that's why they passed it into law.

[Jennieosmith]

When we took out the loan we had to use a company that barclays approved though didnt we! Its a while ago but im sure they gave you a list of companies that they would give a loan for you to use. So surely they have responsibility by recommending them?