Business Bank Charges forced my bankrupcy

[businesshelp]

I need some advice or help.

 

In January 2008 I was forced to close my business after 17 years trading due to bank charges and fees. My business (not limited) turned over 1.8 million pounds and we owed the bank £650,000.

 

We incurred over the last 5 years of business over £154,000 in bank charges, £97,000 in overdraft interest, £172,000 in loan interest plus many tens of thousands in factoring and other fees forced onto us by the bank.

 

It got so bad that the banks where taking much more than we where making their last supposed help? was to loan £30,000 for 6 months and charge £10,000 for the privelage. Also forced to have a financial advisor once a week at £1000 chosen by them to send the bank a report weekly. I had to sadly close the business and declare myself bankrupt making 30 staff redundant. All debts etc where taken care of with the receivers of the bankruptcy but the bank have personal guarantees for £650,000 loan as second charges over the 3 homes, my house, my fathers and sisters that they kindly let me do to try and keep my business open (in hindsight a very foolish decsion) but you do anything to keep going.

 

As you can see from the above charges etc if the banks did not impose such crazy charges and fees basically ripped off my business I would still be thriving as it was profitable. Now they want to take all my families homes to repay the debt.

 

If the bank was not so greedy with unfair charges, terms of repayment and forcing us to do things to survive I would have been able to carry on and pay the debt but they forced this closure through very excessive charges.

 

Does anyone know of any similar companies, legal cases that have succeeded when challenging a banks behaviour or can advise on how I can attack this dreadful situation. Since the closure of my company I have had no money to fight this but I have to think of a plan as the bank are demanding a proposal before starting true legal prceedings.

 

Any help would be very much appreciated.

[MARTIN3030]

Welcome to the site.

I will move your thread into the Business bank forums.

Which bank was this out of interest ?

[businesshelp]

Our very owned RBS

[MARTIN3030]

Ah ok.

£154k is an absolutely staggering amount.

How far back do you have records of statements ?

 

If you have been reading what happened in the OFT test case,you will see that the Judge ruled penalties on charges at common law to be unchallengeable.

However in arriving at this decision he looked at each banks terms and conditions.

I think the earliest ones for RBS were around 2001/2 and these were personal accounts not business terms.

Irrespective,it was highlighted throughout that the decisions were not a yardstick for all-and that he could only base them on theose terms and conditions that he had seen.

 

Probably more of a way of exploring in your case would be the duty of care and relationship expectations.

So what year was the account started ?

What type of account was it ie what was the name ?

Were there sep loan accounts ?

Was there an overdraft?

what were the bulk of the charges for ?

Have you got copies of communications that are historic ?

[businesshelp]

Hi Martin

 

The accounts where all under 1 business name but I had 4 accounts for the 4 offices. They where all normal business accounts. Each had a separate overdraft limit originally that was combined into a loan in 2006 with a business development loan to open a new factory.

They took away the overdraft and conned us to taking on factoring assurins a £165k for cashflow form our debt book and not needing an overdraft. This actually was £65k leaving us £100k shortfall (£50k went missing that we battled and battled to sort out but they denied, the whole process was a nightmare) then for the last 1.5 years due to this cashflow we struggled ever since.

The majority of the charges where for going into negative balance, bouncing cheques, Direct Debits, Standing orders etc. It just got out of control.

 

The bank account started in 1992 to 2008

[businesshelp]

Sorry

Yes their was seperate loan accounts, the bank was RBS, Correspondence, lots on email back up I would have though, the bank paperwork I think I may still have but the receiver took most of our paperwork when they cleared the offices and accounts out.

[MARTIN3030]

Ok thanks.

How far back have you got statements ?

The 1992-2004 will be most important,since they will be obliged to let you have copies of the later ones under DPA.

What about terms and conditions ?

Dont suppose youve got anything from opening the account ?

[MARTIN3030]

Ok no doubt there will be some thoughts from others here

We have one or two with older RBS business accounts who may have terms and conditions.

[businesshelp]

I have statements back to 2004 here but I am not sure on before, I would have thought they where shreaded. My father (accountant) used to take care of all the paperwork and filing I will ask him if he still has anything. He is an old school horder but since the company closed I think he did a clear out, fingers crossed he has something.

 

Why would we need the 1992-2004 statements, the reason I ask is that the charges where that concern me are in 2004 onwards period, before that I dont think we had many at all.

 

Thanks for the help by the way.

[MARTIN3030]

Ah ok its just that you could try for the older ones.

Also your earlier account period would have had loans that were regulated under the 1974 consumer credit act-which give you the same rights as a consumer.

Its an area we are still looking at as the banks have tried to nthwart business claims.

[businesshelp]

My goal is to find a similar case where someone as one as a yard stick. Either through charges, neglect. To get the sum of £650,000 down against the houses which with charges and interest now stands at £750,000. See what they did, what they won and how much compansation if any. I put 17 years in the business and grew it from nothing to have it all taken away by the greed and lack of support from RBS.

[GuidoT]

You have a Herculean task on your hands, do not rely on the banks doing anything to help you or your family, work on the basis they will do their worst.

 

I suppose your only objective now is to stop the banks taking your families homes, I presume yours is gone with the bankruptcy.

 

Your family need to get together and weigh up what value they put on their homes and if they attach any value on such, get some funds together for decent legal advice. I know this is going to be painful.

 

In parallel, you need to gather together all the evidence that supports the figures you state in your first post and then focus on the grounds for reducing the £650K.

 

Unfortunately as part of the OFT test in the High Court it is difficult to claim charges back, but I I know there other avenues are being explored on this forum - I am not up to date on these though.

 

This is a self help forum, but it my view, your predicament is somewhat beyond the scope of this place, hence my recommendation for legal advice. That is not meant to make you feel unwelcome, please do stick around.

 

I wish you well.

Edited January 14, 2010 by GuidoT

[businesshelp]

Hi GuidoT

 

Thanks for the advice, I am going to get some proper legal advise but want to start seeing what grounds I can defend against the bank. I do feel that the bank forced this unfortunate situation, especially at the end. My home was not taken in the bankrupcy as the bank have the second charge and so nothing the receiver had no financial gain from this. My home also has been modified to cater for my son whom is disabled and to re home and modify another property would not be a viable route for him.

 

I agree that I am not going to do this on my own but need a starting block to get me going i the right direction before I seek legal (what route I should discuss). If anyone knows of a company large or small who has been through a similar situation it would be good find out what they did - I cant lay back and watch my whole family turned out on the street.

 

Thanks

[MARTIN3030]

One or two of our members have experienced much of what you have albeit on a smaller scale.

I can confirm that I am part of the small time looking into alternative paths and strats which take into account some of those issues you have faced/are facing.

I have no doubt that one or two of those will be here to ask more questions.Inj the meantime,I will flag this up.

Feel free to continue to add any more info that you think may be of interest.

Of course as Guido says,the magnitude of the charges and money that you was forced to pay,is mammoth compared to most CAG claimants.

However,we were made aware that generally speaking,it is not an area that the legal sector are really keen to embrace-if it were the case,then we would have seen many defeats-in contrast we have not really seen any-which is why we are working on an initiative ourselves.

[photoman]

Hi businesshelp,

 

Shocking amount of charges !

 

Subscribing here, and will comment further once I've more time.

 

Best regards

 

Pm

[ohitsonlyme]

subbing

[Andrea51]

What a horrendous time you've had with RBS.

In view of todays annoucement about RBS and the number of complaints against them can you not take if further with the FSA ? Surely they are guilty of excessive charges.

 

Andrea

[MARTIN3030]

Will take a deeper look at this.

[disgruntledofcornwall]

You have my sincere sympathy. Have you considered engaging an MP in your case? RBS are hot property in terms of media coverage and this could be very interesting to both an MP and the press in general. I realise that sounds sort of exploitative, but you can turn these things to your advantage. Apart from your personal loss, 30 jobs plus the knock on in the supply chain is just unreal given the terrible state our economy is in.

 

And all that mess because the government failed to regulate the banks in the first place...

 

I lost my business due to charges, totalling £6500 spiraling from a £3 mistake. I had very little money at the time, I was a student trying to help myself get through a degree and the cash flow just couldn't stand it. I set it up as ltd and wound it up after 3 years of arguing the legality of the charges. I would not consider my case to be in any way comparable to your loss but the feeling of loosing your hard work is just unbearable at times. I have started again though with the lessons learned from last time.

 

When you think how much money the government throws at trying to create new jobs, it makes me sick to think of all the other companies and traders just like us who have been utterly gutted by greedy banks.

 

RBS were handed public money on the promise that they would "help small business" what a joke trying to do something in this country has become.

 

Surely there must be a solicitor who would take this case, worth thousands in publicity for them alone.

 

I really hope that this is resolved. I wish you luck and I will be watching with great interest.