rowly_c vs Egg/Apex/Natwest

[rowly_c]

Hi,

 

this is a long story so i appoligise in advance.

 

Approx 8 years ago i had a large number of debts with different debtors, and started a DMP with CCCS, CCCS calculated the money i could afford to repay my debt and this was equally distributed to the debtors, at this point CCCS informed me that the interest had been frozen and i was paying a fixed sum to them for approx 4 years and received a monthly statements showing me balnce decreasing each month, after this 4 years had passed my balance was less than £20,000 and i remortgaged my house to to raise the £20,000 but when i phoned the debtors many of them had not frozen the interest and i then owed more than the original balance shown on my CCCS statements.

 

I managed to negoiate with some of them to accept a payment in full and final payment, excuse me if this isn't the correct term, and was left with an egg loan, an egg credit card and a NatWest credit card.

 

I have been paying these direct to the companies and have not used CCCS, i was not happy with them as you can imagine.

 

NatWest have been fine, i sent them a break down of my expenditure etc, agreed a fixed fee and have been paying that for approx 3 years, i have not been chased and recieve a statement each month showing my payment and my balance decreasing.

 

egg on the other hand have not been so good to deal with, they did agree to freeze the interest when I contacted them direct but told me that they could not remove the interest charge over the previous 4 years or so, then about 12 months they sold my debt to a debt collection agency, when i phoned them to ask why they told me i had not sent an update of my expenditure so they had sold the debt, they agreed to take it back and honer the agreement if I increased my monthly payment, so i agreed to pay an additional £10 per month.

 

This week i have received a letter from apex credit management which reads as follows.

 

Dear

 

Egg banking plc

Account number: --------

Balance:£3,945.05

 

With reference to your above mentioned account with Egg, please accept this letter as official notification that Apex Credit Management Ltd has purchased your account and all rights, interest and claims in respect of all amounts outstanding on this account as of 9th September 2009 have been assigned to Apex Collections Limited.

 

Your account became active with Apex Credit Management ltd on 6 November 2009 and therefore all future discussions regarding the repayment of this debt must be directly with Apex Credit Management Ltd.

 

Apex Credit Management Ltd is now the data controller of your personal data contained within the records of this account. Your personal data will be used for the purposes of collecting the outstanding balance from you and may also be combined with other data which may be obtained from third parties where we need to verify or supplement such data.

 

We are aware that you already have an existing arrangement with Egg, it is therefore imperative that you contact one of our telephone negotiators, on 0871 224 2812 to update your details in order for us to set up a new arrangement with ourselves. Alternatively you may administer your account online at https://myapexcm.co.uk/ using your Apex reference number.

 

Thank you in anticipation of your assistance.

 

Yours Sincerely,

 

Rob Franklin

Collections Manager.

 

I am really dispondent now, i hate the whole having to justify my expenditure and just want it all to go away, I was paying every month without fail but that was not good enough. :o(

 

Can anyone please help? I have read that the debt may unforcable because it was taken out before a certain date, I really dont have a clue what to do and although I have seen some templates on here i'm not sure which ones are applicable to my situation.

 

any help would be greatly appriecated.

 

thank you in advance.

[littleme33]

Looks like Egg have had a busy month,!! I have had exactly the same letter, i was shocked as Egg didnt have the decency to tell me!

 

I'm sure someone will be able to help you x

[andydd]

Me too..Same date as well..

 

After being made redundant I had an agreement started in June with Egg allowing me to pay £1 a month for the next 6 months, (thus ending in December) but like the above posters I received a letter from Apex, so Egg have clearly decided to end this agreement.

 

A few questions:-

 

1) Should I have been sent a default notice ? (I was sent one back in April, but I phoned up and agreed a payment plan and it was remedied). I'm assuming that a CRA check will show if i have actually been defaulted.

 

2) Can Egg end the agreement with me despite the fact that I have kept to it and paid the agreed amount every month.

 

3) Should I respond to Apex ? (I was paying Egg and the DD is still setup but obviously Apex now want the money but I feel it is time to put an end to this).

 

Note: I have previously requested my CCA and like many others it is questionable as it has the 'Approved Limit' term. The fact that Egg are suddenly busy selling these debts maybe shows that they are now not to sure about their enforcibilty.

 

Perhaps someone could post or link to the default/assignment process so I can check it has been adhered to.

 

Andy

Edited November 13, 2009 by andydd

[littleme33]

Hi,

 

I wasnt sent a default notice, and i am considering writing to Egg to tell them this, i have sent a CCA request to APEX but in my haste i didnt send the £1, i did to Egg though, I'm waiting to see if anyone can help me on my thread so i will keep a keen eye on yours too!

 

I have just read a fantastic thread on here from someone who used to work for a DC company, have a read it opens your eyes to the on goings of these companies!

[rowly_c]

Hi,

I have just read a fantastic thread on here from someone who used to work for a DC company, have a read it opens your eyes to the on goings of these companies!

 

Where is the thread, I would like to read that.

[littleme33]

Bare with me ive got to remember where i saw it now!!

[littleme33]

Found it!!! http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/134506-inside-dca.html

 

Hope you can open it ok?? its under 'General Debt Issues' and the thread is called : inside a dca!

[rowly_c]

Hi, APEX have now contacted me again and I need some help what to do next, letters are attached.

 

Also for info I had agreed with EGG that my interest would be frozen, the screen dump shows that it had not and they have actually still been charging me! also the balance on the APEX letter is £800 more than the balance on the screen dump which I stopped paying 4 months ago.

 

Getting really stressed out about this now and would really appreciate some help.

 

Thanks.

[rowly_c]

Sorry try these

 

Picasa Web Albums - NoOne

 

Picasa Web Albums - NoOne

 

Picasa Web Albums - NoOne

 

Picasa Web Albums - NoOne

 

Picasa Web Albums - NoOne

[rowly_c]

Can anyone help??

[andydd]

Can anyone help??

 

What exactly do you want help with ? Have you CCA'd them all ?

 

Andy

[freethemice]

I suspect you aren't getting much help because thing are a little up in the air at the moment after the 'Carey v Hsbc' case and reconstructed agreements.

I would suggest spending £10 on a full data access request and a further £1 on a cca request. The £10 should give you all the information held on you and the £1 will probably produce what looks like a compliant agreement that could have been reconstructed by egg or Apex.

Until you find out if you have a case simply pay what you want to who you want and don't worry. You are very unlikely to be taken to court if you are making regular payments.

It does seem that egg are trying hard to get these accounts sold at citibank are trying to offload this loss making arm. If you can afford it now would be a good time to offer a full and final settlement figure at around 40%

Hope this helps.

[rowly_c]

I received a letter today that says,

 

TAKE NOTICE - Unless you make payment on this debt within 10 days Legal Action may be taken against you or the property.

 

Information about POTENTIAL Legal Action

 

County Court Judgement - We may apply to the courts for a CCJ against you.

 

Once this is obtained it will remain on your personal credit file for 6 years and declares that you are liable to pay the outstanding debt.

 

Warrant of Execution - A Court Enforcement Officer (Bailiff) wili be assigned to attend your address and remove goods from your property to the value of the outstanding debt.

 

Attachment of Earnings - A Court Order wili aliow us to apply direct to your employer and take money from your salary before it is paid to you.

 

Charging Order - The total outstanding debt wili be secured against your property.

 

Please take note that all of the above legal action will result in additional costs and fees being levied to your account.

 

If you are unable to pay your account in full please contact us immediately on 0871 244 2812

 

 

I am not sure what to do now, I have requested a CCA and have posted the response letters to this earlier in the thread, I am not making any payments and I have not sent an account in dispute letter, I don't even know where I would get one or what to write!!

 

Getting to the point where I might pay one of those Companies to do all of this for me. :o(

 

Your help would be most appreciated.

 

Thanks

[littleme33]

Hi,

 

Just to put your mind at ease??

I have been getting these letters thick and fast from APEX, i sent them a letter to there CHIEF WHOEVER OR WHATEVER he is (obviously they are trying to use scarey names now!)

Saying that you can have this token amount like it or lump it, basically you have an unenforceable agreement that is in dispute but i am prepared to offer you £1 per month as a token payment!! They had sent me a letter before this one i sent them asking for a SOA i said 'no you are not the original creditor so you have no right to ask for it.....i am still waiting for a reply, thank god its BH weekend and NO POSTMAN :-| i dread him now!!

 

Regards

Littleme

[rowly_c]

Thanks for your reply, do you think I need to send them a letter to say the account is in dispute?

[rowly_c]

I have received another letter today which says

 

We regret that you have chosen not to contact Apex credit management despite our previous communication endeavouring to assist you in coming to a satisfactory arrangement to settle this account.

 

Given your refusal to discuss this matter over the telephone and or make appropriate payments, we have now decided to assess your account for suitability to be passed to our 'doorstep' collection agent who may visit your home to discuss repayment of the debt.

[littleme33]

Someone at Apex must have thought up a new letter template as i received the same today!!.......

[seriously fed up]

Apex send the "we regret you have chosen not to contact us" letter out like confetti - even when you have written to them. I suppose the problem is you havent uttered their magic words "here's a cheque for what you say I owe".

Its almost certainly just anothe threat that they wont act on, but can be pretty sure that it will upset you (it has? ). But as an insurance work through this http://www.consumerforums.com/resources/templates-library/86-debt-collectors/591-dca-home-visit-if-you-receive-or-are-threatened-with-a-doorstep-visit- send them the letter referred to (there's a link) and if (BIG if) they follow through on the threat follow the instructions on the page. Almost certain though its just a threat.

[basa48]

Can anyone help??

 

You need to use the other thread (What I think is wrong with Egg credit agreements) to compose a letter to apex disputing the debt.

 

Basically there are a raft of arguments that agreements like yours are unenforceable.

 

Don't worry about the threatograms too much just yet, we've all had similar.

 

Was your Egg account terminated in 2008?

[rowly_c]

You need to use the other thread (What I think is wrong with Egg credit agreements) to compose a letter to apex disputing the debt.

 

Basically there are a raft of arguments that agreements like yours are unenforceable.

 

Don't worry about the threatograms too much just yet, we've all had similar.

 

Was your Egg account terminated in 2008?

 

I'm not sure what the definition of terminated is or whether mine was, it was being handled by CCCS originally some 8 years ago, the following link explains in a bit more detail the history.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/231883-egg-debt-has-been.html#post2569781

[basa48]

I'm not sure what the definition of terminated is or whether mine was, it was being handled by CCCS originally some 8 years ago, the following link explains in a bit more detail the history.

 

Many Egg Credit Card accounts were ended in 2008 (illegally incidentally) even though they weren't in default.

 

Yours won't be one of those - unfortunately.

 

You need to read the Egg related threads and make yourself familiar with the various arguments you can use to fight creditors. These are basically that some prescribed terms are missing or misstated.

 

You need to be familiar with not only the Acts and Regulations pertaining to credit agreements but also the protocols and procedures of the courts and debt collectors.

 

If you attempt to challenge creditors using template letters (i.e. not really understanding what you are writing) you are destined for a fall.

 

Please clear one thing up for me.

 

You state you entered a DMP 8 years ago and yet your Egg Credit agreement is also 8 years old.

Edited April 21, 2010 by basa48

[Mightyacorn]

My first question has got to be have you retained any letters from CCCS or creditors about the frozen interest on the accounts?

 

My second is have you SAR'd any of them?

 

Lastly please post any letters you have from any of them - edited of course - on your thread.(I know you've already done the recent ones from Apex).

 

The more info you can give us the better we can help you.

 

The letters you have received are all standard threatograms. There are several things missing here, you need a Default Notice from Egg and a Deed of Assignment from Egg to Apex. The Notice of Assignment is different as Egg don't have to tell you, as long as you have been told.

 

A CCA request will/should give you a copy of the 'agreement' but the SAR will/should give you copies of ALL correspondence even with third parties, and it should include the DOA. So if you've got copies of letters from CCCS to Egg and Egg don't produce those letters then Egg have failed to comply (If you've not got copies then you can't prove they've failed to supply).

Edited April 22, 2010 by Mightyacorn

[seriously fed up]

I dont know what anyone else thinks about this, but might there be a cause of action against cccs who were acting as your agent. There certainly seems (at best for them) to have been a "breakdown in communication", and (at worst) they have misled their client as to the true situation.

Is that worth looking at as well?