Goldfish / Barclaycard Advice Please....

[tommyd82]

Hi,

 

I have been looking on these forums for quite some time now about the Credit agreement letters and such like. Anyway... So I thought id give it a go with my Barclaycard which I have had for about 7 years which used to be a Goldfish card.

 

Letter 1 (19/09/09)

I sent Barclaycard a letter on the 19th Sepetember 2009 requesting my CCA as per the templates I have found on here, ive attached copies of these so you can see them. I got a response within a week for that letter, one containing my current terms and conditions and one giving me my balance and stating they have provided a copy of the executed agreement which they didnt supply.

 

My 1st Letter to Barclaycard: 1st Letter to Barclaycard

Barclaycards 1st Response A: Response A

Barclaycards 1st Response B: Response B

 

Letter 2 (07/10/09)

So I wrote another letter to them asking the same again basically explaining that I have previously requested it and they wrote back to me with a 3 page letter basically saying they dont have to send it to me as they can send me parts of the agreement and pick and chose essentially. They said if I write to them again they wont reply basically unless theres a damn good reason, have a read of the letter and you will see what I mean. See letter below that I sent followed by their reply.

 

My 2nd Letter to Barclaycard: 2nd Letter to Barclaycard

Barclaycards 2nd Response: Response to 2nd Letter

 

Telephone Call (14/10/09)

Today i rang Barclaycard and spoke to someone, explained how I had written into them twice and not received the document that I asked for, and asked this person to send it to me, so me made a note explaining that I would like a copy of the document bearing my signature and he sent it down to the letters team to send it to me, i asked him if he could say if they had a copy of it or not and he didnt know. So im waiting to see what comes from this, but I doubt anything will.

 

Please Help...

I am a little puzzled as to what to do now, do I send them a letter asking for it under freedom of information or something like that, or do I go down the Civil Proceedings act and try and get it that way? I have a sneaking suspicision that they dont have it, I dont want to risk them taking it from my bank account etc. I have two business credit cards with Barclaycard, and business and personal accounts with Barclays. So I dont want to rock the boat too much.

 

Thanks for any help

Edited October 14, 2009 by tommyd82

[cerberusalert]

I'd be tempted to send them Scots letter below & see what their response is;

Re: my request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

Thank you for your recent letter sent to me, the contents of which are noted. I appreciate your quick response to my original letter. However, the reply received by me does not fulfil your requirements under the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

The Act demands that I be supplied with a true copy of any properly executed credit agreement that exists in relation to the above account. I may ask for this on demand providing that a fee of £1.00 is paid. This fee was sent with my original letter.

 

My request remains outstanding. The items you sent in your reply, does not constitute a true copy of any credit agreement that may or may not have been signed by me on the opening of this account. It neither confirms that I am liable for any alleged debt to you, nor gives me any chance to evaluate whether any original agreement was ‘properly executed’.

 

I still require you to send me a true copy of the original credit agreement that you allege exists. As you will know, under the Consumer Credit Act 1974, a judge is not permitted to make any enforcement order unless the creditor can provide a true signed copy of the original credit agreement. This means that unless you can produce such an agreement, this alleged debt is not enforceable in law.

 

You had until XX/XX/2008 to provide me with the true copy I requested. You are now in default of my request. Any account I hold with you is now in legal dispute. Whilst the account remains in dispute, you are not permitted to ask for any payment, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you. Furthermore, whilst the dispute remains, you are not entitled to charge any interest on the account, nor make any further charges to the account. Additionally, you are not entitled to register any information on this account with any credit reference agency.

 

To register information with a credit reference agency, you must have written consent from the customer to collate and share such information. This consent is given in the form of a signed credit agreement, so until you produce such an agreement, you may not do this.

 

The requirement for consent to share data is a clear requirement of the Data Protection Act 1998. any such attempts to share my data without my consent will be met with a complaint to the Information Commissioners Office

 

To sum up, I will not be making any further payments to you until you provide me with the document I have requested. Whilst you remain in default of my request, you are not permitted to take any action against this account. This includes adding further charges and passing any information to the credit reference agencies.

 

Should you not have any signed credit agreement in relation to this alleged debt, please confirm this in writing to me.

 

 

I look forward to your reply.

 

Yours faithfully

Print name do not sign

 

**amend to suit your circumstances.**

[tommyd82]

Hi,

 

Thanks for this, ill give it a week to see if anything arises from my telephone call first then ill send them something like you have stated above which seems pretty good.

 

Im sure you are aware theres plenty of confusion on these forums etc, obviously if there is no signed CCA then theres no contract etc etc, are they legally obliged to send me the signed copy as in the letter they sent to me it appears they have worked around it by stating they can send me, well pretty much nothing if they like.

 

Surely they have to send it to you.... right?

[tommyd82]

actually just to add to that, would I not be better trying the Civil Proceedings thing on them first before I vonultarily put my account into dispute?

[tommyd82]

Also, ive just had a look at what the Consumer Credit Regulations 1983 secion 3.2 states as per the 2nd letter i received back and it says:

 

(2) Where any information about financial and related particulars set out in paragraphs 5 and 6 of Schedule 3 to these Regulations cannot be exactly ascertained by the owner, estimated information based on such assumptions as the owner may reasonably make in all the circumstances of the case and an indication of the ssumptions made shall be included in documents embodying regulated consumer hire agreements.

If you look at what section 5 and 6 are, they refer to signatures etc, so my understanding of this is that if they cannot find it, they dont have to give it to me. But equally, if they have not got it, there is no contract.

[slick132]

Hi Tommy,

 

BC will not send you the credit agreement in response to a CCA request.

 

Nor will they send it in response to CPR letters 1 and 2. You wil have to file an Application at court to pursue this route properly.

 

But you may have success with a complaint to the FOS. See Bones' thread here - morgan & stanley /barclaycard

 

Looks like Bones agreement is enforceable but legibility remains an issue.

[tommyd82]

Thanks, ill take a look at their thread, I cant see why they wont just give it to me, they probably havent got it (I HOPE!)

 

To get a court order to obtain it, surely thats going to end with the account being put into Dispute?

 

I asume that they will have to turn up at court with the papers, if they dont or cant produce it then, its quite a clean cut argument really.

 

Is getting a court order really the only option I have to find out if they have a copy of it or not?

Edited October 14, 2009 by tommyd82

[slick132]

Hi Tommy, see my comments in red.

Thanks, ill take a look at their thread, I cant see why they wont just give it to me, they probably havent got it (I HOPE!) You can't assume this at all, as shown in Bones's thread. Just because they don't send you the agreement does not mean they don't have one.

 

To get a court order to obtain it, surely thats going to end with the account being put into Dispute? Have you read the CPR thread at Link No2 in my signature. This is a very different strategy, from the CCA request route, to obtain your credit agreement. "In Dispute" usually refers to where a bank fails to provide the agreement within the allowed time after a CCA request.

 

I asume that they will have to turn up at court with the papers, if they dont or cant produce it then, its quite a clean cut argument really. Read about the CPR strategy.

 

Is getting a court order really the only option I have to find out if they have a copy of it or not? No, in my previous post, you'll see I suggest the possibility of complaining to the FOS, to see if their intervention forces the bank to produce the agreement.

 

Have a read of as many threads as you can, particularly in the BC forum.