NIP - Police cannot identify driver or passenger

[Azazal23]

Recieved a NIP for doing 44 in a 30 on 4 Sept. Wrote back asking for a photo to help identify the driver which would have either been myself or my wife as be both were using the car on that day.

 

They have wrote back today saying despite looking at the photos and DVD? taken on the day and despite allt his was taken forward facing they cannot identify a driver or passenger dur to glare on the windowscreen.

 

Despite this i still have to provide the information within 14 days.

 

 

What can i do here, we dont know which one of us was driving at the time of the offense?

 

Its crazy if we dont decide ill get points and a huge fine

[lamma]

The Hamiltons didn't.

[pin1onu]

You can use what is know as the "Hamilton Defense".

 

The act provides that

 

© a person who fails to comply with the requirement of subsection (2)(a) above is guilty of an offence unless he shows to the satisfaction of the court that he did not know and could not with reasonable diligence have ascertained who the driver of the vehicle was.

 

If you genuinely cannot remember you best bet is to subnmit a defnes along these lines.

 

You've written to the cops asking for a photo to help identify the driver. Beyond that I don't see what else you can do if you genuinely don't remember who was driving.

 

You might find this page useful: Free online law clinic: Emmetts Solicitors

[lamma]

check mobile phone logs, credit card statements, diaries. ask for any local CCTV footage (if the car passed any). as many things as you can think of to show that you have tried everything in your power.

[Azazal23]

basically what happened my wife and i returned home from the Lakes she drove home. We got in sorted some stuff out etc.. i went to halford then to get some bits (drove on my own). Got home and she went out then aswell. In such a short space of time it could have been either of us.

[lamma]

did you pay in cash or by card ?

[asmodeus]

Others may know a better way but be very careful as they changed the format in view of the Hamilton defence in that you now have to name a driver.

Asking for a photograph sometimes works as if it is a Gatso they will not have one.

If you are getting close to limit of points under totting up then seekadvice from a solicitor

Another possible way out is to name your wife on the form as the driver at the time and when she then gets the NIP she names you and so on and you proceed in this manner naming each other until they have failed to bring either of you to court within the six months as they do not have the ID of the driver. If you try this then be prepared for them to keep up the demands for the driver to to be named almost until you are at the steps of the Court.

They are getting wise to this and I do not know how a magistrate would react if they follow it through and 'amnesia' might be a valid reason for younot to be licensed to drive any vehicle - imagine forgetting what a red light means.

Best not to speed

Edited October 12, 2009 by asmodeus

[raydetinu]

watch it though, the police can do you for perverting the course of justice, much higher penalty than a few points and a fine.

From the timing and location, I am sure you can work out who was driving?

Do not try to be clever they will not let it drop.

[Azazal23]

Hi thanks for the replys just to clarify, not saying i have amnesia and i dont know who was driving i have stated to them it was either myself or my wife, as we both used the car in such a sort space of time. They have already responded stating they have examined the DVD evidence and due to reflection or glare on the windscreen neither the driver or a passenger can be identified.

 

Now bear in mind the camera was front facing to aid in the identification of the driver if it was ever disputed. I feel its unjust if they proceed, they could not convict anyone of a crime this way, its like saying proove you didnt commit a crime rather than here is the evidence.

 

I have also stated that if i respond and say it was me when i do not know is tantamount to giving a false statement which is a crime also, we genuinly dont know which one of us was driving, the road it was on is at the bottom of our street and is used basically everytime we need to go anywhere.

Edited October 12, 2009 by Azazal23

[asmodeus]

You are a motorist and that makes you an easy target - just paperwork and no dangerous situation as they might encounter with a real criminal

 

Health and safety

 

44 is quite a lot over the 30 limit and is probably approaching the threshold for a court appearance and extra points. I hope in future you (or your wife) wil be more careful especially in residential areas.

Edited October 12, 2009 by asmodeus

[Azazal23]

yeah completly agree with the speed point, and if they had produced a photo with me or my wife behind the wheel then no problems, the road is a dual carridge way but thats not the point.

 

If i reply and say it was me to savr the hasstle then i am commiting an criminal offense if i reply and say it was either myself or my wife can you proof which one then im commiting an offense.

 

Either way im commiting an offense ) !!! And the police wonder why they get a bad rap.

 

Should have drove at 159mph and i probably wouold have got off with it

 

Policeman caught speeding gets off free | Metro.co.uk

 

Hang on damm im not a copper

[mightymouse_69]

you say the police cannot ID the driver or passenger?

 

Can they, or do they, confirm there were two people in the car?

 

If so, this means that the offence occured when there were two people in the car, and (according to your discription of the days events) the only time the car had two occupents was when your wife was driving back from the lakes.

[raydetinu]

I still dont get how you dont know who was driving as the location should/time should give it to you unless it was very local to you and that is common route for you both!?

[Azazal23]

Mightymouse: The letter states due to the glare on the windscreen they cannot tell who is/was in the car nor if there was a passenger.

 

 

Reydetinu: The location was a road just at the end of my street to its used basically any time me or my wife goes anywhere in the car

[lamma]

have you asked for the photograph 'to aid identification of the driver' so that you look for yourself ? don't miss the 28 day deadline. if you have to send full details of both potential drivers..

[Azazal23]

yes i asked and they responded by saying "they are not legally obliged to provide that information" they then went on to say they had exmanined the DVD and due to the amount of glare on the windscreen they cannot identify the driver or tell if there was a passenger present.

 

They gace me 14 days from receipt of that letter, so i have drafted a full response outlining my reasons why i cannot say if it was myself or my wife, and that i feel i have taken reasonable steps to identify the driver including contacting the police for help (and they were not too helpful)

 

I really do feel i have dont everything i can, ill probably get bombed out in court but i can only try

[lamma]

did you ask for the photograph 'to aid identification of the driver' or for 'evidence'. If you use the E word the shutters go up as you are not entitled to that unless summonsed. Did you ask via ltter or phone ? if phone do it again by letter and just ask for the photograph 'to aid identification of the driver'. You need to lay a clear trail of the efforts you have gone to. Do not get set up for a six pointer No picture with the NIP then, it sounds as though the SCP is playing hardball and not helping much so its up to you to do all the needed legwork.

[Azazal23]

No I was very careful how i worded the request, the jist was "may i request a copy of the photograh(s) taken at the time, this will help identify the driver" This was in a letter sent recorded delivery and was recieved as they responded by saying NO

 

I will call today and ask again for a copy and get the persons name and badge number, at least that way once it goes to court i will have exhausted my avenues so to speak it will also make the Police look un-cooperative