hfc is it legal ??

[pedross]

This does not appear too straightforward but that does not mean that all is lost.

Do you have a copy of the credit agreement you can post up after covering up your personal details.

 

The PPI has been paying out so that would limit a claim for mis-selling

but I am unsure about the fact that although you have paid a single premium of £6651 to protect the whole payment

they have restricted you to lower cover.

That needs looking into.

 

Regards

 

Pedross

[pedross]

Hi

 

I have been watching this thread but have not posted because I was not at all sure what is actually happening. It now appears to me that the default registered is regarding the alterations which were made to your agreement.

 

However, thats about as far as I have got because you are claiming that your PPi started in March 2003 as far as I can see. But your agreement shows that it started when the loan started in 2002 and you claimed on it in March 2003.

 

You also stated earlier that they asked for your signature to confirm a previous request but you would not send it because you were suspicious. Was your signature on the agreement you posted up or was this your copy. This does not look like a customer copy to me.

 

In addition, have you recieved the pack of documents relating to your SAR yet.

 

It looks to me that HFC have somehow changed the terms of the agreement in the past and in their files it must show 140 months at £200 a month as per the default.

 

Please confirm if they have sent the SAR docs, if the agreement posted up was enclosed with your signature showing and if there was information regarding the alteration.

 

The fact that you did not receive a DN makes me more suspicious.

 

Pedross

[pedross]

Ok its starting to make sense.

 

You took out a loan on 21/11/2001 and agreed to make payments of approx £350 pm which you did until the end of 2002 and then reduced payments of £200 pm. In March/ April 2003 the PPI policy started making the payments.

 

Did you miss any payments up to when you started paying the £200 pm and did you pay the £200 until the PPI paid it.

 

The next relevent point is how long did the PPI actually payout for. Did it continue right up until it ran out in December 2008 or was there a break.

 

What I am trying to establish is how many months missed payments there has been from January 2002 to January 2009.

 

Hopefully, I can understand the full picture with a few more questions. I am not convinced that HFC have handled this correctly but it is rather complicated so we must take a step at a time.

 

You will get support on here so there is no need to worry. cB is very helpful and I notice is involved. Once we have a full picture I will provide you with a letter to send to move it forward a step.

 

Pedross

[pedross]

What would be my next step do I send them a cca ??

 

Rgds

 

I will provide you with a letter to send them before the end of the week. I need to spend some time on this to make sure we get them into the position we want them, so I do not want to rush it.

 

Unfortunately, I am very busy at the moment and will be tied up in a meeting most of Thursday but I will do it before the weekend.

 

Do not panic, I believe you are in a strong position, more haste less speed.

 

Pedross

[pedross]

Thankyou Pedross much appreciated

 

Rgds

 

You are welcome, I thought you needed assistance and I felt that something was not right. Until we get a full reply from HFC we will not be sure if I am correct or not. I can only offer my support based on what I understand about the situation and although I am going to try and help you resolve this in your favour as I said before we must take it a step at a time.

 

The next step is to send the letter that will appear in my next post. If you can copy and paste it into a word document making sure that you add your address, name, account no. and your name again at the bottom. You can print your signature or use a handwriting font. If you do not have a printer let me know.

 

I will post it on its own to ensure there are no mistakes.

 

Pedross

[pedross]

(Your address)

HFC Bank

PO Box 1520

Birmingham

B1 3PR

04 September 2009

Dear Sirs

Re: Name Account Number ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE

I am in receipt of your letter of 01 July 2009 in which you claim that payments on the above account have not been made in accordance with the credit agreement. I would be obliged if you would send me a copy of the credit agreement to enable me to be clear about the point you are referring to.

In addition, I would be obliged if you could supply me with a full schedule of all payments due for the full term of the agreement and all payments made to date, details of any charges applied to the account and a breakdown of the balance outstanding.

I would also point out that I sent a Subject Access Request, under the Data Protection Act 1998, on 18 May 2009 by recorded delivery and I sent you a payment of £10.00 which you cashed. I requested all of the information that you hold on your files about my account. You have failed to supply the information within the time allowed of 40 calendar days.

I do not accept that you are in any doubt about my identity as you are sending regular correspondence to me at my known address. Under Data Protection rules, only if you have good cause to doubt the requester’s identity should you ask them to provide any evidence you reasonably need to confirm it.

Until I can clearly understand my liability to you I would point out that you should consider the Account in Dispute. While the dispute continues, you should not register any adverse information about me with a credit reference agency, or take any other enforcement action.

I trust that you will now supply me with all of the information requested and I look forward to receiving this information in due course.

Yours Faithfully

Feelingglow

Feelingglow

[pedross]

HI

 

The statement just shows the up to date position so there is no PPI now because it has finished.

 

The DN has been issued to allow them to terminate the agreement and take further action. We will deal with that in due course. Did you receive the OFT Information sheet with it?

 

We will have to wait for a reply to your letter now to decide the next move. It will be interesting to see how you have made 7 years payments on a £12500 debt though and you still owe £10,000.

 

Pedross

[pedross]

Hi

 

Well the letters make no sense and the first one looks as if it was written by a 5 year old.

 

It appears that they have allocated a letter from someone else to your file. There is no way you can answer them as they have no relevence.

 

In my opinion you should just wait until they write again. You can point out these two letters to them later if needed. You have written a sensible letter to them and they have not replied to it so it seems reasonable to wait for a reply.

 

The fact is they are still well over the 40 days allowed for the SAR.

 

Pedross

[pedross]

Reading your last post I think I should explain something.

 

They have not thrown a spanner in the works they are playing into your hands. They have shown that they are incompetent and are confused about the contents of your file. They have not supplied the SAR and are in breach of the regulations and have not sent a sensible reply to your last letter.

I could go on but I have made my point.

You should be happy that they are so stupid and if you never hear from them again that will be great. They are not getting away with anything they are just shooting themselves in the foot.

Don't let me see you post about stress again its all in your mind. You are in the driving seat at the moment so please enjoy it. No news is good news.

Pedross

[pedross]

Hi Feelinglow

 

Sorry about the delay but have been very busy and did not want to reply in a rush. Your comments above might not be a million miles away but we will find out in the end.

 

The next step is to communicate with the people who are communicating with you. That way they will either go away and leave you alone or answer our questions. So lets get a bit tougher and send the following letter to Beneficial with a copy of the first letter in post 34 and a copy of the letter you sent to them (post 24):

 

Dear Sirs

 

I am in receipt of your letter dated 6 October 2009 the contents I have noted.

 

However, I would bring to your attention a copy of the letter I recently sent to HFC Bank, which I believe is self explanatory. I am still awaiting a sensible reply to the letter and the information that I have requested, including the documents I am entitled to in my Subject Access Request.

 

I did in fact receive two letters, the first one dated 21 September (copy enclosed) which appeared to have been written by a 5 year old. It might of course make more sense to you because it looks more like an inter office memo.

 

Your letters are not attempting to resolve the matter and I therefore request once again, that you provide me with the information that I have requested without any further delay.

 

Yours Faithfully

 

Feelingmoreconfidentnow.

[pedross]

So it appears that they do not have a copy of the signed agreement.

 

Can you post up the statement showing the payments that will be useful.

 

I will let you know the next step as soon as i have enough time to deal with it but its looking pretty good for you at the moment.

 

P

[pedross]

Hi FG

 

Not that difficult to understand the information if you work from left to right. But now its your job to check them. Step at a time - Start top left

 

02/01/2002 £306.94 + £43.45 = £350.39

 

so you made the first payment on 02/01/2002 & the 2nd on 01/02/2002 and so on.

 

Then someone paid £50 p month and then various amounts and then £200 p month

 

Please check the agreements and let me know which ones you made and when the insurance started and when it finished.

 

If we can be absolutely sure what has happened here it is one part of our case and could win it. If the case is weak we can look at other options. The main point is that we need to be sure of our argument before going on the attack.

 

Have a busy weekend - not really it won't take you long to do.

Pedross

[pedross]

I should be a detective. I always get to the bottom of it.

 

Well it does make a difference obviously but it just means I have to review the options again. I have only been establishing the facts up until now but there are options popping up as I do so.

 

Now it appears that I have the facts we can look at how to deal with the alleged balance.

 

I am really busy this week so please bear with me I will be back.

 

Pedross

[pedross]

Thanks Scooby

 

You obviously have some inside knowledge regarding the agreements, your input is welcome and if the agreement they hold is unsigned it does make it easy.

 

The main problem we have had to date is establishing the amount of arrears which we can finally work out now. So we have several options open to us one of which could be no enforceable agreement. But if they do prove an enforceable agreement it will be useful to have other arguments which convince them to to reach an agreement.

 

I was busy last week but I will suggest the next move in the next 48 hours any comments are welcome of course.

 

Pedross

[pedross]

Hi FL

 

I have had chance to go through the information you have received recently and I think its looking good so far.

 

I can see no reason why you would be paying them any more money so we need to give them one more chance to show why they think you should.

 

You need to send a letter to HFC which I will type up for you Monday or Tuesday. Please pm me if its not done by then to remind me.

 

Do you feel that they have supplied a full copy of your file under the SAR or are the documents you posted up the only ones received.

 

So far we do not have a signed agreement and a copy of one that does not add up with all sorts of interesting features in it. Therefore, if they do not have a signed agreement it is game over for them. If they do we will deal with that when the time comes.

 

Pedross

[pedross]

Hi FL

 

Letter in next post.

 

I think its best to send this and see what you get back. It shows you are being reasonable and they are not. Plus they will get the picture.

[pedross]

HFC Bank

PO Box 1520

Birmingham

B1 3PR

 

 

28 October 2009

 

Dear Sirs

 

Re: Name Account Number ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE

 

I am in receipt of your letter of 13 October 2009 in which you have replied to my Section 77 request and thank you for the enclosures.

 

However, I would remind you again that I sent a Subject Access Request, under the Data Protection Act 1998, on 18 May 2009 by recorded delivery and I sent you a payment of £10.00 which you cashed. I requested all of the information that you hold on your files about my account. You have failed to supply the information within the time allowed of 40 calendar days.

 

In addition to copies of all the information held on my file I would particularly request a copy of the original signed credit agreement. I realise that you have already sent me a copy of the agreement, which you claim is a copy of the executed loan agreement and it would therefore appear that this is the agreement you would look to enforce.

If I am mistaken in forming this opinion please provide the copy requested above. I would also point out that this account is still in dispute due to your failure to provide me with the information I have been requesting. If in fact you do not have a signed agreement I would request that you confirm this to me rather than avoiding your responsibilities and continuing to cause me stress and concern.

 

I trust that you will now supply me with all of the information requested and I look forward to receiving this information in due course.

 

 

Yours Faithfully

 

Feelingglow

 

Feelingglow

[pedross]

Hi FL

 

I think it would be a good idea to send a cover letter to Beneficial in response to this.

 

Say you are in receipt of their letter and that you are waiting for a reply to your own requests (copy enclosed) before you can decide what to do.

 

Pedross

[pedross]

I think it just crossed with your last letter. They may just try it on and send someone round and personally, what I would do is be ready in case they do. Have a copy of your last letter, plus the one mentioned in it and the doorstep one all ready. If someone does turn up do not let them in for any reason take their name, hand them the letters and insist that they take them back to the office and hand them to a senior manager.

 

That will really put the pressure on them. Hand delivered by their own staff, brilliant.

 

That's if they turn up and if they do they really are getting desperate. It would suggest to me that they do not have a case to take to court. Another point, do not discuss any aspect with them, ask them to reply in writing. If they ask if you are taking advice, say you are, but you are not allowed to discuss it.

 

It appears that they are running out of ideas.

 

Pedross

[pedross]

Well done you! Send him packing to report back.

 

I think we have finally got a result after all of the persistence with the letters.

 

The first letter you just posted up is the key to all of this. They do not have a copy of the original agreement and they have admitted it to you. Do not lose these letters. Not only do they not have the original they do not even have a copy. Having said that and I do not want to dampen this, they could always find one later but they have had enough time to find it so far.

 

So, do we write back or do we wait, that is the question. I think we will wait a week and see if anything else arrives and then decide. Post a reminder or pm me if I lose track of time please.

 

The bottom line is - if they do not come back to you with a copy of your agreement, the next letter will be to tell them that you consider under the circumstances that you have paid them more than enough already or something like. I would say that we are 99% there now.

 

I think they will know that anyway when your guy reports back.

 

Pedross

[pedross]

I am with you FL

 

My internet is down at home so I did not have access over the weekend.

 

I will post before I leave work (late) tonight

 

Pedross

[pedross]

Sent you a pm need to know your opinion.

[pedross]

Hi FL

You have only uploaded the covering letter I cannot see the agreement. As you say they send it to arrive in time for Xmas after all this time when they could have left it a few more days. Sums them up really.

 

They had enough time to find it earlier so if it is so watertight why did they just not send it until this stage.

 

Do not let it spoil your Xmas which is probably what they intended seeing as we have been winning up to now. If you load the agreement I will have a look at it and then we will make our next move.

 

Its not the end whatever it shows its just another item to take into account. The shows not over etc.......

 

Have a good Xmas and dont let this get in the way.

 

Regards

 

Pedross

[pedross]

Just had a quick look and the first thing that stands out to me is the fact that the dates are not in the schedule. It does not look as if you have blanked them out so do I take it that they were not entered.

 

The agreement states that you agreed to repay the money on the dates shown therefore why would you pay it on any other date. Is this why they did not send it?

 

Pedross

[pedross]

Hi FL

 

Thanks and best wishes to you also.

 

Basically, the figures should be in the agreement you signed. In addition, there is a potential claim on the PPI even though you have used it to your benefit. Thats a bit more complicated and I need to look into it.

 

The next step will be to send another letter telling them that they still do not have an enforceable agreement, giving them the options and asking them to confirm what they want you to do next (re last letter)

 

I might not be able to sort this for a few days but we are still in the driving seat so we should take our time. If they think you are getting legal advice they will not expect an answer until next week.

 

Pedross