Claim Stayed – Due to Unenforceable CCA Test Cases.

[letitbeme]

Have just returned home after my court apearence for my N244 ordering Link to supply the outstanding documents.

What a waist of time, the Judge informed me and the claimant that due to the current court case being heard in Manchester by District Judge Blacksmith on the 8th Oct relating to this type of claim ( I think he was referring to the members of this Forum) and apparently his ruling is going to affect the majority of the cases on this forum . He has stayed the case and my N244 to 21 days after the court case on the 8th oct 09. Are you aware of this case.

[letitbeme]

Have just returned home after my court apearence for my N244 ordering Link to supply the outstanding documents.

What a waist of time, the Judge informed me and the claimant that due to the current court case being heard in Manchester by District Judge Blacksmith on the 8th Oct relating to this type of claim ( I think he was referring to the members of this Forum) and apparently his ruling is going to affect the majority of the cases on this forum . He has stayed the case and my N244 to 21 days after the court case on the 8th oct 09. Are you aware of this case.

[letitbeme]

Thanks for the link citizinB, It appears I’m not the only one.

Further to my post above.

The Judge also indicated there where a number of cases before the courts being stayed until the out come of the Manchester case .

[letitbeme]

Last January I received a telephone call from my bank asking me if I wanted to upgrade my credit card (Opened in Aug 1997) to a more flexible account. (Me thinks my old cca is defective) Just sign this new cca. (“I’ll think about it ”)

 

Thanks for the update TD.

 

I think the banks and credit companies know they have a BIG issue here and I suspect the amounts involved will have more impact than the bank charges fiasco.

 

With bank charges, the amounts involved arose just from the charges levied on overdrawn accounts. The banks only agreed to the test case the day before they started to announce their financial results. Collectively, the accounts showed that the banks had paid back or provided for over a billion pounds and thus their argument that it was not worth defending an individual claim on commercial grounds would have been shot to pieces. The FSA would have been the only organisation with prior knowledge of the accounts of ALL the banks and I suspect that when someone did the sums, the truth dawned on the FSA and the government, hence the test case. At the time, many thought the delay caused by the test case (2 to 3 years) would provide enough time for the banks to recover the billion or so.

 

Well, it has taken over two years to date for the test case but, as we all know, the world has changed (although with the bonus levels clearly bankers haven't). The billion or so set aside to cover bank charges two years ago seems small beer now.

 

Unenforceable credit agreements are more of a problem though. First, it means the banks cash flow will be affected. They may not have to fund repayments of credit accounts as with bank charges but they will no longer have an income stream from people repaying the credit card accounts and the extortionate interest. Second, I doubt they will be able to count the balances under the agreements as assets in their balance sheets, thus requiring a further injection of capital.

 

As for the immediate future, I think it’s almost anyone’s guess. The government have removed the cause of the problem for the banks (by which I mean S 127(3) of the CCA) for post Oct 2007 agreements but that is rather like shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted. But that still leaves many pre Oct 2007 agreements unenforceable and remember these agreements were made during the explosion of credit facilities offered from 1997 onwards.

[letitbeme]

Liverpool CC,

I did ask the Judge if the case in Manchester was based around the claimant not supplying the relevant documents that the claimant’s case was reliant on

He affirmed that it was. He also indicated that the claimant Might want to withdraw the case after the trial. ( I’m not going to try and read between the lines on that last statement ) Hope this Helps

 

Do you mind stating which couty court you went to this morning? Did the judge provide any more details of the Manchester case?

[letitbeme]

Is there any way of obtaining a Listing of cases that Judge Blacksmith is hearing on the 8th Oct.

[letitbeme]

Have just spoken to the case manager at Manchester High Court. He informed me that the case has been passed to a Judge Holman. He is dealing with a Batch of cases dealing with the subject matter “unenforceability of credit card agreements with no documentary evidence supporting the claim”

Any thoughts?

[letitbeme]

Hi citizenB, Have just signed the following petition:

 

Petition to: reduce the time Credit reference agencies hold data for to 3 years. | Number10.gov.uk

 

Has there been a thread started in relation to this.

[letitbeme]

Hi middenmess,

So am I correct in stating that if PPI was included on my account without my authorisation and no seperate terms - this may add further grounds to have the claim dismissed

TD quote..

 

If they do not have the actual piece of paper with your signature on it and all the prescribed terms on it they can quote witnesses and systems all day but they can not enforce the debt

 

They can have the above 'piece of paper' with prescribed terms for the credit card but if you have PPI with no separate terms then it is unenforceable as it becomes a multiple agreement- but will the Judge's always be clued up on that?

[letitbeme]

Hi , A little update re my case being Stayed till after the Manchester case. Just got of the phone with Liverpool CC ( case management team ) , informed me that they have a three week backlog of court orders to process and that my court order will be issued next week.

[letitbeme]

Just a bit of Background info..

 

"Chester consumers act

So what’s going on at Chester county court then? Fifty-two claims for declarations over enforceability of agreements where non-compliance with the Consumer Credit Acts 1974 and 2006 is alleged are going on. Media reports have been misleading. Talk is of the 52 spreading into thousands but we shall see. Judge Derek Halbert, the designated civil judge for Cheshire, gave case management directions in the present proceedings on 19 May 2000. They involve a variety of issues including whether creditors are paralysed from enforcement whilst unable to comply with a statutory request for a copy of the original agreement. How many of those original documents have been eaten by the office vulture or shredded on assignment of the benefit? Also in issue is whether referral to a credit reference agency constitutes enforcement of a non-enforceable agreement. Several cases could be transferred to the Commercial Court but as yet no claims have been stayed.

Judge Halbert has already decided one point in Southern Pacific Personal Loans Ltd v Walker and another (Chester county court March 2009). He ruled that charging interest on a charge for credit is fatal to the enforceability of a credit agreement. The ruling is subject to appeal to the Court of Appeal."

[letitbeme]

IMHO the outcome of the lead cases that are currently being processed across the country should/will eventually lay the legal foundations that will assist and guide the civil Judiciary in the vast number (100,000 ++++) of unenforceable finance agreements that will shortly flood the civil courts.

[letitbeme]

The following should be made a mandatory condition for the issuing of a claim in the civil Courts.

 

Mandatory Claim Form Submission Conditions

 

The claimant must enter all of the relevant information that will clearly outline and identify the POC (see Appendix I for relevance), all supporting documents must (see Appendix II for relevance) be attached to the POC when presented to the courts.

 

 

Failure to comply withthe Mandatory Claim Submission Conditions will result in the return of your claim form and your submission fee will not be refunded, you will be required to fully comply with the mandatory requirements for submitting a claim form and a new fee will be required. If upon the re submission and presentation to the district Judge it is further found that you have not fully complied with the Mandatory Claim Submission Conditions you will be liable for a Fine of £1000.00 and your claim form will be returned.

 

Appendix I

 

 

Appendix II

[letitbeme]

Hi There, Just thaught I'd drop this in.

 

Does any one know when the test cases are up for a hearing?

 

30th September 09 before Mr Justice Smith according to the barrister who is doing the case

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/198059-unenforceability-cases-hold-until-31.html#post2395407

[letitbeme]

so much conjecture, there were cases on the 23rd aswell, no feedback from them.

 

this is a mess, the courts are a state, there is zero transparency in the entire system for unenforceables.

 

1-0 banks.

 

 

 

BANK OF SCOTLAND - V- MITCHELL JUDGEMENT

 

Quote:

 

9. Miss Gardner has given no reason for the withdrawal of the action. She is in no way to be criticised for the omission. She is bound to act in accordance with her instructions, and those instructions were presumably to say no more than she has in fact said. But this does not prevent me from drawing what is in my judgment the only inference which can possibly be drawn from what has happened, which is that the bank realises that if the issue were to be contested it would either lose on the issue or be at serious risk of losing. There may be hundreds of similar cases and the bank would plainly not wish other defaulting customers to get wind of an adverse decision on the fundamental point which is embodied in the quotation from Mr Berkley's written argument, which I have already set out.

Edited September 29, 2009 by citizenB
removed full judgement, not necessary to post everywhere.

[letitbeme]

Hi There B40,

 

My point exactly, the Judiciary are aware that a vast majority of CCA’s are not enforceable, the banking system is also aware of the problem and that’s why they withdraw there claims at the last minute, thus stopping the enforceable issues being documented by the judiciary.

 

LetItBeMe

 

BANK OF SCOTLAND -v- ROBERT MITCHELL before.

 

the bank realises that if the issue were to be contested it would either lose on the issue or be at serious risk of losing.

B40

 

LIBM

[letitbeme]

B40,

It’s a numbers game with them. They work on a percentage strategy. We are the 3% of there debt portfolio that fights back, the other 97% succumb to there threats.

[letitbeme]

Hi There TS,

What are the issues being ascertained at Manchester.

[letitbeme]

I have heard that the Civil Judiciary are sick and tired of wiping the arse of the Banking Industry, so you could have a point, but I don’t think they need to re-write established case law, Just implement it!.

[letitbeme]

One of the solicitors involved with the cases up for a hearing in Manchester on the 8th Oct informed me that the case’s that started in the London Mercantile Court went ahead .

Edited October 10, 2009 by letitbeme

[letitbeme]

Manchester Cases

There is going to be a preliminary hearing in the week beginning 30 November to determine several legal principles. 13 cases have been chosen. All other cases are stayed pending hearing. Trial window in March 2010.

 

HHJ Waksman has said that he does not consider himself bound by the McGuff case as he is sitting in the Mercantile court.

LIBM

[letitbeme]

Been missing in action on this one (crap at work) so lost the thread (ha!).

 

Has their been any further developments, notice from LIBM's post about preliminary hearings. Has is been established yet what these particulars cases are dealing with.

 

B40

 

Daily Express | YourMoney :: Consumers set to gain from debt cases

[letitbeme]

This thread will have to do for now. The other unenforceable thread may come back in time.

[letitbeme]

Is there no new updates re Unenforceability Cases on hold until further notice?

 

LIBM

[letitbeme]

Hi Baggio.

 

My case is up for a case managmen conferance on 18th Nov, the

Solicitor defending my case is actively involved with the Manchester test case’s, so will update this thread when the relevant unenforceable points eventually get to court.