court letters,Nationwide cc,court costs, ** WON **

[ssshooter]

I have recieved a letter from the courts (attached) stating the amount of debt that i owe to Nationwide plus court costs/solicitors fees.

 

I now have 14 days to appeal & i dont know where to start,i dont understand any of the forms they have sent to me (attached),don't know what to write as a reply.I also can't understand why they are asking questions about my savings etc,my Mom recently gave me £1000 what my Dad left to me when he died recently,i don't want them taking that.

 

I am also about to be made redundant on 20th July,so the questions on the forms are not relevant to me at the present time,i am only getting around £3000 redundancy,although i have mortgage cover this money will need to pay bills until i find another job.They also ask of other debts,because i have other debts could they force me to sell my house?,i'm so worried & don't know what to do.

 

Would i be right in thinking that the cca that Nationwide sent me is only an application for a credit card & not a cca?

 

I also have a copy of my expenditure with consumer credit counselling services that i could send.

I originally started this thread at:-http://www.consumeractiongroup.c o.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/199556-nationwide-credit-card-court.html#post2227799

 

there are other attachments on that link & also comments & advice that may help others give me a little more help or advice...anything would be appreciated as i am now very worried & don't know what to do next,thanks.

 

I could only upload 5 of the pages of letters that the courts sent me,the others are further down this page.

lcourt letter pt 1.zip

pt 2.zip

pt 3.zip

pt 4.zip

pt 5.zip

[ssshooter]

Her are the rest of the letters & forms from the courts (attached),thanks.

& also other info (attachments) that may help when i first posted,before the court got in touch with me :- http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/199556-nationwide-credit-card-court.html

 

Thanks, cca part 2 added today,this has my signiture on,but still only looks like an application?,sorry i only came across this last night whilst sorting out my paperwork...does this change anything?

pt 6.zip

pt 7.zip

c.c.a 1.zip

cca 2.zip

Edited June 16, 2009 by ssshooter

[Dinkjames]

I've asked the site team to move this to the legal issues forum. You will get more help there.

[Dinkjames]

Oh, and it would be appreciated if you could stick to one thread rather than opening multiple threads on the same issue. It's easier to respond if everything is in one place.

Edited June 15, 2009 by Dinkjames
added info

[freakyleaky]

Thread moved to legal issues.

[ssshooter]

Thanks very much for your help,sorry about mixing up the threads/posts i got a little confused.,posted things before i meant to or forgot to add attachments,heads a little mashed at the mo.Will take more care in future.Once again thanks.

[freakyleaky]

I see you have 4 threads running on the same issue. Can you chose the one you want to run with and I will remove the others.

[42man]

OK....well it is up to you whether or not you want to defend this.....If it was me i'd want to make sure they have all their paperwork in order....

 

You have indeed got 14 days in which to respond to the claim form, if you wish to defend all then you must state that and then you get a further 14+3 days in which to submit a defence...

 

However I think you need to get them to disclose all the relevant paperwork for this.....

 

You can do this by using CPR31.14 or CPR18......

 

Can I presume you put in a CCA request for a copy of your agreement before the claim came through ? What they have sent you doesn't to me look enforceable.....as there is no signature...have you read this ? -

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/159445-getting-them-reveal-their.html

 

Read this letter below very carefully and edit as required.....you need to send this recorded delivery to the opposing solicitors as soon as possible if you are going to defend ALL...

Dear Sir,

 

Re: (Claimant's name) v (Your name) Case No:

CPR 31.14 Request

 

On (date) I received the Claim Form in this case issued by you out of the (Name) County Court.

 

I confirm having returned my acknowledgement of service to the court in which I indicate my intention to contest all of your claim.

 

[Prior to the issue of proceedings I had delivered a request for the production of the agreement mentioned in the Claim Form and on which you rely. That request was ignored][delete if no such request was delivered]

 

Please treat this letter as my request made under CPR 31.14 for the disclosure and the production of a verified and legible copy of [each of the following / the] document(s) mentioned in your Particulars of Claim:

 

1 the agreement. You will appreciate that in an ordinary case and by reason of the provisions of CPR PD 16 para 7.3, where a claim is based upon a written agreement, a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement should be attached to or served with the particulars of claim and the original(s) should be available at the hearing. Further, that any general conditions incorporated in the contract should also be attached.

 

2 the assignment*

 

3 the default notice*

 

4 the termination notice*

 

5 [any other documents mentioned in the Particulars of Claim]*

 

* delete if not mentioned in the Particulars of claim.

 

[Although your claim is for a sum which is not more than £5,000.00 and will in all likelihood be allocated to the small claims track for determination upon my delivering a defence, at this moment in time I have not delivered my defence and the case has not been allocated to a track. In consequence the provisions of CPR 27(2) are of no effect and you should not seek to avoid compliance with your CPR 31 duties by claiming otherwise]#

 

# delete if claim for a sum exceeding £5,000.00

 

You should ensure compliance with your CPR 31 duties and ensure that the document(s) I have requested are copied to and received by me within 7 days of receiving this letter. Your CPR 31 duties extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for the originals of the documents I have requested, the better for you to be able to verify the document's authenticity and to provide me with a legible copy. Further, where I have requested a copy of a document, the original of which is now in the possession of another person, you will have a right to possession of that document if you have mentioned it in your case. You must take immediate steps to recover and preserve it for the purpose of this case.

 

Where I have mentioned a document and there is in your possession more than one version of that same document owing to a modification, obliteration or other marking or feature, each version will be a separate document and you must provide a copy of each version of it to me. Your obligations extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for any version(s) to include an obligation to recover and preserve such version(s) which are now in the possession of a third party.

 

In accordance with CPR 31.15© I undertake to be responsible for your reasonable copying costs incurred in complying with this CPR 31.14 request.

 

If you require more time in which to comply with this request you must tell me in writing. You must tell me before the time for compliance with this request has expired. In telling me you require more time you must tell me what steps you have taken and propose to take in order to comply with this request and also state a date by when you will comply with this request. In addition your statement must be accompanied with a statement that you agree to an extension of the time for me to file my defence. Your extension of time must be not less than 14 days from the date when you say you will have complied with my request and you must state the new date for filing my defence.

 

If you are unable to comply with this request and believe that you will never be able to comply with this request you must tell me in writing.

 

Please note that if you should fail to comply with this request, fail to request more time or fail to agree to an extension of time for the filing of my defence, I will make an application to the court for an order that the proceedings be struck out or stayed for non-compliance and a summary costs order.

 

I do hope this will not be necessary and look forward to hearing from you.

 

yours faithfully

 

[ssshooter]

this one please http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/204487-court-letters-nationwide-cc.html

[42man]

I can also presume that there are some penalty charges that have been added to the account.....you could possibly replace point number 5 in the letter with *statements for the duration of the agreement*

 

Alternatively you could edit this and send it to the opposing solicitors....but the information in this letter and providing it COULD be seen as unreasonable to ask for...

 

In the XXXX County Court

Claimant -v- (YOUR NAME)

Claim Number: (CLAIM NUMBER)

 

 

Dear XXX

 

CPR 18 - REQUEST FOR INFORMATION

 

I have received a recent court claim from your organisation. In order to file a defence and counter claim I require some information. Given that this matter is now the subject of legal proceedings, you are obliged to disclose under the Civil Procedure Rules, the information and documents detailed below.

 

The information must be furnished within fourteen days of the receipt of this letter. If you fail to comply, this will be reported to the Court, a copy of this letter will be provided as evidence to the same and an Order enforcing your compliance will be sought.

 

1. A true copy of the executed credit agreement and any terms and conditions that applied to the account at the time of default and at the time the account was opened. True copies of any notice of assignment and/or default notice or enforcement notice that you or the original creditor sent me, with a copy of any proof of postage that you hold.

 

 

1.1 If copies of any of the above documents are to be relied on in court rather than originals, a copy of the Notice of proposal to adduce hearsay evidence required under s2(1) of the Civil Evidence Act 1995 together with proof of the authenticity of the document(s) as required under s8(1)(b) of the Act, including but not limited to:

 

(a) a copy of the procedure(s) used for copying, storing and retrieving documents

(b) a copy of the relevant log entry showing the time and date of the scan or copy, the name of the member of staff making the copy, the method used for copying, storage and retrieval and time and date of destruction of the original document(s)

© copies of internal and external audit reports covering the entire period from the date of the copy to the present to demonstrate that the procedures have been complied with

(d) copies of Quality Assurance accreditation certificates covering the entire period from the date of the copy to the present to demonstrate that the procedure(s) and audit process(es) comply with the appropriate quality standards

 

2. All records you hold on me relevant to this case, including but not limited to:

 

a. Transcriptions of all telephone conversations recorded and any notes made in relation to telephone conversations by your company, or by any previous creditor

b. Where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my account formerly held with *********.(AMEND TO THE COMPANY NAME)

c. .Documents relating to any insurance added to the account, including the insurance contract and terms and conditions, date it was added and deleted (if applicable).

d. Details of any collection charge added to the account; specifically, the date it was levied, the amount of the charge, a detailed financial breakdown of how the charge was calculated, and what the charge covers.

e. Specific details of the fees/charges levied by any other agency in respect of this account and a detailed breakdown of said fees/charges and what each charge relates to and on what date said fees/charges were levied.

f. A genuine copy of any notice of fair use of my data as required by the Data Protection Act 1998

g. A list of third party agencies to whom you have disclosed my personal data and a summary of the nature of the information you have disclosed.

h. Copies of statements for the entire duration of the credit agreement.

 

3. Any other documents you seek to rely on in court.

 

 

I will require this information within the next fourteen days. I must advise you that if the information is not forthcoming, it will be reported to the Court that you are trying to frustrate proceedings and denying me the opportunity to file a defence and counter claim.

 

Yours sincerely,

 

XXXX (type, don't sign).

[ssshooter]

Yes i do wish to defend this,& also the cca request was sent out a couple of months prior,however i did recieve 2 letters back saying that they could not provide me with the cca as my signature was missing from the request (although i did print my name in type on the request).Penalties have also been inscurred.I will send the letters off today & hopefully be able to get back to yo very soon,thanks for all your help.

[ssshooter]

Also,sorry to be a pain but what do i need to put as my defence on the forms 'defence & counterclaims',could someone advise,thanks (attachments pt6 & pt7)

[Dinkjames]

Have a look around this forum. There are loads of examples of defences that you can modify to suit your circumstances. Look for a holding defence, whilst you get your paperwork sorted.

[diamondgirl]

As 42man said read the letters carefully and decide which one you want to send, sign the letter but don't use your usual signature or if you do put a line or cross through it so you would know if anyone copied and pasted it.

 

Do read through the other threads it will give you a great insight into defence statements and you have time yet so don't panic.

 

As you intend to defend all put that on your acknowledgement of service, you can do that on line, but you must acknowledge the service of the papers.

 

We'll cross the redundancy bit when it comes to it.

 

DG

[creditcardmug]

The main thing at the moment is to acknowledge service saying you intend to defend ALL of the claim, but dont file any defence yet.

 

How old is the card?

[ssshooter]

The application (what they call an agreement )was taken out on 12.07.05,why shouldn't i fill in the defence form yet?,i thought i would need to fill that in in order to make a defence/counterclaim against Nationwide?

 

I have also uploaded 2 letters (A1 & A2,attached below) that may be of interest,one says please find enclosed your credit card agreement,the second of later date says that they cannot forward me my cca as i have not signed the request.

 

How can they not send me something they have already sent?...I'M CONFUSED

Edited June 16, 2009 by ssshooter

[ssshooter]

Here are the rest of the letters & forms from the courts (attached),thanks.

& also other info (attachments) that may help when i first posted,before the court got in touch with me :- http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/199556-nationwide-credit-card-court.html

 

Thanks

 

other letters that may be of interest (attached)

A1.zip

A2.zip

Edited June 16, 2009 by ssshooter

[creditcardmug]

You also need to send the letter of 42man in post 8, and give them time to respond before drafting your defence

 

Edit it to suit, dont sign it just type your name, send by recorded

 

By acknowledging service, this gives you a total of 33 days from the date on the court claim to file your defence

[ssshooter]

i last night came across a couple of letters whilst trying to get my paperwork in order,was wondering if anyone could advise?.The letters relate to my request for the cca,in the first letter sent to me 02.04.2009 it says: 'thank you for your enquiry about your credit card account,please find enclosed a copy of your credit card agreement'.(which i have recieved)

 

In the 2nd letter 08.06.2009 it says:thank you for your letter requesting information on our customer.Unfortunately we are unable to action your request as the written authority you have supplied us has not been signed,therefore i am unable to send you a copy of the creit card agreement.'

 

 

My arguement is i am the customer,also if they are now saying that they cannot provide the cca (even though they have already sent it),can i take it that i officially have not recieved it & report them to whoever for not complying to the 12 day rule?,as i didn't think i needed to provide a signature? The letters are attached in the post above,(attachment A1 & A2)

Edited June 16, 2009 by ssshooter

[creditcardmug]

Forget about your CCA request, pre court claim, this matter is now in court, you can introduce your argument that you have asked for the CCA later.

 

I need you to change your thinking now, from what was an argument that they have not provided a valid CCA to what is now a court claim...a very serious matter.

 

You need to do two things,

1. acknowledge service of the claim

2. send the CPR request to the claimants solicitor

[ssshooter]

Forget about your CCA request, pre court claim, this matter is now in court, you can introduce your argument that you have asked for the CCA later.

 

I need you to change your thinking now, from what was an argument that they have not provided a valid CCA to what is now a court claim...a very serious matter.

 

You need to do two things,

1. acknowledge service of the claim

2. send the CPR request to the claimants solicitor

 

Thanks,i have now done both of the above,filled in the service of claim on line & will send cpr request by recorded post tomorrow morning.

[indebtstudent]

In answer to an earlier question you don't need to send in a defence yet because essentially the acknolwedgement of service buys a little time. Far better to use that time getting help on here.

 

Banks used this all the time when they were being taken to court, it buys time and sometimes people give up.

 

Without getting into all the technical legal stuff the goal here is to appear to be reasonable, given your circumstances I can't see the court ordering a large monthly payment.

 

Remember this is civil court and they will want to know what your circumstances are, assuming they win, the court would not rule for an amount which you cannot afford otherwise it will just end up back there.

 

Listen to others on here and have a look around for similar cases.

[ssshooter]

Thanks for the advice,will have a look around on the forums,has been a great help so far.Wouldn't have had much of a clue without peoples guidance.

[ssshooter]

I have only just noticed,but on the cca that Nationwide sent me they have filled in my name as Mrs *** instead of Mr ****.Does this alter anything for my defence?

[ssshooter]

I sent the following letter(ammended to suit) to Nationwides solicitors (by recorded delivery) just over 2 weeks ago now,& as of yet i have recieved nothing from them.I need to put my defence forward soon & this is holding things up.Should i write to the courts?,i'm a little lost as to what actions to take next.Advice would be grateful.

 

 

Dear Sir,

 

Re: (Claimant's name) v (Your name) Case No:

CPR 31.14 Request

 

On (date) I received the Claim Form in this case issued by you out of the (Name) County Court.

 

I confirm having returned my acknowledgement of service to the court in which I indicate my intention to contest all of your claim.

 

[Prior to the issue of proceedings I had delivered a request for the production of the agreement mentioned in the Claim Form and on which you rely. That request was ignored][delete if no such request was delivered]

 

Please treat this letter as my request made under CPR 31.14 for the disclosure and the production of a verified and legible copy of [each of the following / the] document(s) mentioned in your Particulars of Claim:

 

1 the agreement. You will appreciate that in an ordinary case and by reason of the provisions of CPR PD 16 para 7.3, where a claim is based upon a written agreement, a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement should be attached to or served with the particulars of claim and the original(s) should be available at the hearing. Further, that any general conditions incorporated in the contract should also be attached.

 

2 the assignment*

 

3 the default notice*

 

4 the termination notice*

 

5 [any other documents mentioned in the Particulars of Claim]*

 

* delete if not mentioned in the Particulars of claim.

 

[Although your claim is for a sum which is not more than £5,000.00 and will in all likelihood be allocated to the small claims track for determination upon my delivering a defence, at this moment in time I have not delivered my defence and the case has not been allocated to a track. In consequence the provisions of CPR 27(2) are of no effect and you should not seek to avoid compliance with your CPR 31 duties by claiming otherwise]#

 

# delete if claim for a sum exceeding £5,000.00

 

You should ensure compliance with your CPR 31 duties and ensure that the document(s) I have requested are copied to and received by me within 7 days of receiving this letter. Your CPR 31 duties extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for the originals of the documents I have requested, the better for you to be able to verify the document's authenticity and to provide me with a legible copy. Further, where I have requested a copy of a document, the original of which is now in the possession of another person, you will have a right to possession of that document if you have mentioned it in your case. You must take immediate steps to recover and preserve it for the purpose of this case.

 

Where I have mentioned a document and there is in your possession more than one version of that same document owing to a modification, obliteration or other marking or feature, each version will be a separate document and you must provide a copy of each version of it to me. Your obligations extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for any version(s) to include an obligation to recover and preserve such version(s) which are now in the possession of a third party.

 

In accordance with CPR 31.15© I undertake to be responsible for your reasonable copying costs incurred in complying with this CPR 31.14 request.

 

If you require more time in which to comply with this request you must tell me in writing. You must tell me before the time for compliance with this request has expired. In telling me you require more time you must tell me what steps you have taken and propose to take in order to comply with this request and also state a date by when you will comply with this request. In addition your statement must be accompanied with a statement that you agree to an extension of the time for me to file my defence. Your extension of time must be not less than 14 days from the date when you say you will have complied with my request and you must state the new date for filing my defence.

 

If you are unable to comply with this request and believe that you will never be able to comply with this request you must tell me in writing.

 

Please note that if you should fail to comply with this request, fail to request more time or fail to agree to an extension of time for the filing of my defence, I will make an application to the court for an order that the proceedings be struck out or stayed for non-compliance and a summary costs order.

 

I do hope this will not be necessary and look forward to hearing from you.

 

yours faithfully

 

Edited July 9, 2009 by ssshooter