Cabot financila (Vanquis CC) court summons is it too late to use CCA 1974?

[Rhia]

Hello Hunni. Yes do ask for a copy of the deed of assignment as well as the Notice of Assignment. The deed is the sales agreement between the OC and Cabot. They really won't likeyou asking for this but it may throw up some important detail.

 

You can add it as an addendum to you original Part 18 and also you SAR. Hope this doesn't make you head ache even more but so far you have handled it well with good advice from CAG.

[Rhia]

Hi yes just headline it clearly and state further to Part 18 this is an addendum and go on to request the deed of assignment and/or sales document (in truth they are one and the same) I would still add the bit about statement of truth even though it's repeating what you have already sent in original.

 

Have just had a quick scan of your thread They don't have anything do they? That Vanquis form is not an agreement. They are trying it on following the Rankine judgement (see elsewhere on CAG) which is totally flawed. The judge in this case said it was sufficient to produce a form and T&Cs but this totally flies in the face of the CCA and its Statutory Instruments and other High Court judgements.

 

I was talking to a barrister who said at some stage this Rankine nonsense will have to be challenged and overturned as it is a very poor judgement indeed but there was an agenda going on in court so don't you let it put you off.

[Rhia]

Hunni - yes to the addendum - good work. Let's go hunt some orc!

[Rhia]

Deed of assignment may well show if it has been correctly assigned. If not it's another line of defence but we won't know until we see what they've got.

[Rhia]

Great Scott I would go for their CI at 49%. As this is such an extortionate rate of interest you can build a good case for claiming it should it get before a Judge.

 

I have managed to get CI off both MBNA and Cap 1 in the past. I suspect Vanquis/Cabot wouldn't like having to explain this rate before a Judge.

[Rhia]

I would imagine this will be followed by a Notice of Discontinuation by Cabot. If they do so hit them with a Letter Before Action to reclaim your costs. If they don't pay up issue an N1 via the courts for wasted costs.

[Rhia]

Your own time spent in defending and researching this rubbish. You are allowed to claim £9.25 per hour. Just add up all the time spent on this. Just keep it reasonable (i.e. don't take the mick) and you can then send this to them. If they've any sense they will cough up, if not you will have to start proceedings.

[Rhia]

I think I would call the court for a start and tell them about the letter. Problem is they (the court) will just carry on with their procedures until Cabot discontinue.

Another thought - perhaps a curt note to Morgan's solicitors asking WTF they are playing at in view of the letter.

You may well still need to proceed with the Allocation Questionnaire though. If so, complete it following the notes. Request the case is moved to your local court.

I would also tick the part to ask for a "stay" so that it can be resolved. Cabot may get their act together and call it all off.

In the box for information which the judge will look at state you need the following information in order to form a defence:

a) a copy of the agreement b) Notice or deed of assignment c) full breakdown of how the sum has been calculated and all charges added and why. If they are unable to supply these state you will be seeking that the case be struck out.

Edited July 20, 2009 by Rhia

[Rhia]

Yes I would.

[Rhia]

Don't panic - it's just the AQ and you need to answer as follows:

A. No (decided don't ask for a Stay)

B. Yes (if you want to change to local court - explain you are a LiP and do not have the resources that Cabot has being an international company (Jesus wept)

C. If it is under £5k then Yes to Small Claims

D. No (unless you have a witness apart from yourself)

E. No ( ditto)

F. Any dates to avoid - holiday, hospital or other

G. Any other info (no need to complete) have suggested adding re my post above.

 

That will give you some breathing space and you don't need anything else yet.

 

OK. Can you SAR Vanquis to see if those alleged letters turn up. Obviously this is no good for AQ but you will need to see if they are in their files or if these are just Enid Blyton creations.

 

If it was done online then I guess this is not a strong part of your defence. I am not up on online appns so perhaps someone else can help.

 

The default notice dates need challenging and I would put them to strict proof as to the actual date this was issued as one way or another this makes the DN invalid. Cabot never have proper copies of letters just "representations" of letters they allege to have sent. Put them to strict proof of the issue by asking for original default notice and proof of posting.

 

Then just read and re-read the whole thing and try and trip them up. Don't panic at all.

[Rhia]

CitizenB I think you're thinking along the same lines as me. Charging 49% interest and there seem to be penalty charges in there it may well be that the alleged debt is a nonsense anyway when everything is totted up.

[Rhia]

Hunni are you saying you have a SAR fom Vanquis? If so is some info missing? Reason I ask is you don't need to SAR them again and another tenner (unless it was done years ago).

Just write back to them and refer to the SAR and state that they haven't fully complied as such and such and such and such are missing. You could also add that if they are uanble to produce any specific item requested then they need to state so, so that there can be no misunderstanding.

Give them another 14 days to respond (and tell them you are doing so on top of the 40 days). If they don't respond in that time then complain to ICO.

As Vanquis isn't part of the court proceedings I don't think you can Part 18 them - although if anyone knows anything different I would be interested to hear as getting the OC involved is often nigh on impossible.

[Rhia]

PRACTICE DIRECTION – FURTHER INFORMATION - Ministry of Justice

 

Read that link it tells you exactly what to do re Part18 requests.

[Rhia]

Hunni have just emailed you re this. It's a revelation it really is.

[Rhia]

I take it you want to send the extra info. Send it anyway Hunni and give profuse apologies to the court for it's delay. It's only a week isn't it?

Just do the whole thing again head it revised and send it in. The courts give lots of leeway to the professionals I have found whereas we LiPs go by the book.

[Rhia]

Here's a blank one you fill it in online but don't forget to print an extra copy as it won't save it.

 

http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/cms/files/n149_web_1105.pdf

[Rhia]

Hi Hunni, I suspect you will have no option but to wait a week or so longer. Just what do they need the extra time for either they have the docs and they have a case or they haven't.

Suspect they haven't and are desperately hoping something will turn up.

You will need to be seen to be reasonable on this occasion but if they don't come up with the goods the court won't wear their delays again.

 

Keep strong and anyway I take it you've seen they lost £6m in profits thsi last trading year. That's why they are desperate to try and wring money they aren't entitled to out of people like yourself.

[Rhia]

Can't read them Hunni - can you enlarge at all? Have they supplied any of the items you requested and is there a properly executed copy of the original agreement?

 

If not your position is still exactly the same and don't forget those penalty charges.

Edited September 25, 2009 by Rhia

[Rhia]

This means .you go after Cabot fo the refund of charges. I am supised they actually offered you a refund without a fight.

 

There are two schools of thought on who you approach re refunds on assigned debts but as it's in Cabot's hands and they have bought it then use it in your case against them.

[Rhia]

OK managed to read them. Yummy signed by Piers Morgan but still offering the same hapless tripe.

As CitizenB says go after it point by point and you will need an amended defence.

My own observations are:

Page 1 is just waffle - we operate from substantial premises across three counties...so what? They are also making a substantial loss but that's their problem.

The meat (more like gruel) is in Page 2. Still no properly executed agreement giving the pescribed terms which bears your signature. You need the stuff on producing the actual original copy for inspection NOT the t&cs. You also need copies of the ORIGINAL letters and proof of posting. Also assignment.

Then there's the sales document (deed of assignment) which you have requested and have yet to see.

What's the deadline for amended defence?

[Rhia]

Hunni go and look at this...virtually same as yours. They are stuffed.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/204926-just-back-court-4.html

[Rhia]

I think your letter is fine but your family member has a good point. Why keep asking them when you have given them ample time.

[Rhia]

This is terrific Herbie and just what Hunn needs I think. They are such stubborn so and sos - they really should be stopped from bringing these vexatious claims.

[Rhia]

Hunni have been offline and just seen this. I think the advice you have here is good and would follow it.

 

Just refute the claims one by one as stated. The next stage will be an Allocation Questionnaire when you can add draft directions but don't wory too much about this now in fact if your new defence is good for the judge it might not get that far.

[Rhia]

Hi Hunni, sorry not to have been around lately but you've been in good hands. Yes they do hit you with costs to frighten you so don't let it. Also there is nothing stopping you calculating your own costs as a L-in-P and sending them so they know what else they will face when they lose this case.

Keep your chin up. There is obviously much for the judge to consider or he would just have rammed the case through...in their favour. He didn't so although I wouldn't ever consider feeling too confident he can see that all is very odd indeed and needs exploring.

Perhaps they will back off now.