1st credit and Lloyds TSB Platinum credit card

[Pinky69]

The prescribed terms and conditions are all there but what has to be determined is - were the terms and application form all part of one document? They have sent you Terms for an upgrade. Did you already have a Lloyds card when you made this application? Now I am not a technical expert but my understanding is that the black surrounding the documents means this is a photocopy of a microfiche. A microfiche is itself a copy and they won't have kept the original document. A microfiche is not admissable in court because it's a copy and therefore hearsay evidence - they nust be able to produce the original. I would go down that route and say what you have received is a copy of a microfiche and you are entitled under the CCA 1974 to have a copy of the properly executed original agreement.

[Pinky69]

They only have to make a reference to it - as they have done - that they will set the credit limit and inform you of what it is.

[Pinky69]

Dear Lloyds or DCA,

 

I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE ANY DEBT TO LLOYDS GROUP OR ANY COMPANY AFFILIATED TO LLOYDS GROUP

 

Ref

 

On (Date) I requested a true copy of the executed agreement pertaining to an alleged credit card agreement with the above reference.

 

On (Date) I received a copy of a microfiched document comprising an application form and Terms for an upgraded card. I never at any time applied for a card upgrade from any bank and have no idea what this document pertains to.

 

You are in default of my request made under Section 78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 for a true copy of the original executed alleged credit card agreement. Until you can provide with a copy, the alleged agreement remains unenforceable and you may not take any enforcing action, including but not limited to, adding charges and interest, demanding payment, passing the account in dispute onto any 3rd party or entering any information on my credit reference reports. Any attempt to do so will cause me to take further action, including but not limited to, a formal complaint to the OFT for breaches of the Consumer credit Act 1974, the CPUTR 2008 and OFT guidelines. I will further complain to the Information Commissioner in the event of any breach of the Data Proection Act 1998.

 

I look forward to hearing from you. If there is anything about this letter you do not understand, I advise you to consult a solicitor.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

Simples!

[Pinky69]

The very first paragraph of the terms. If it pertains to everyone that applied, it doesn't say that - it says it is info for those applying for upgrades and that is now part of your dispute.

[Pinky69]

Sorry - I meantt to say send to Insolvency Department where you got the CCA from.

[Pinky69]

That's strange. Did you reapply for the card? Usually if an account is closed they send you a new card an a new account number. Are you sure that the new card wasn't just the upgrade described in these terms? I would send for the SAR and see what they have - you send the SAR to Lloyds themselves. You don't have to admit to anything. They have asked you for payment on an account that is already in dispute so you are finding out all you can about this alleged account - that's perefectly legit.

[Pinky69]

Don't panic. I have discovered they can produce a microfiche in court provided they have other evidence of the account - transactions, statements etc. Tell the solicitors that you are awaiting a reply from Lloyds to your SAR because the Terms and Conditions they sent are for a card upgrade which you never had. Tell them that the copy of the microfiche is not easily read, as it is supposed to be, and that if there are any court proceedings you will expect a technical expert from Lloyds who was a witness to the filing of the microfiche in court to swear under oath that the microfiche was entered on LLoyds system correctly and was not tampered with in any way in the process.

 

There is a set of regulations for filing with microfiche and there used to be a poster on here that could quote them - it made solicitors run a mile!

 

At the end of the day they may take you to court then it is up to you to fight with everything you have - you cannot read the alleged agreement, the Terms and Conditions are for an upgrade you never had, and there is no proof the microfiche wasn't tampered with during filing. The alternative is to offer them £1 a month if a judgement went against you.

 

The advice on here is the best people can give based on their knowledge and experience - there are no experts. At the end of the day it is for each poster to look at the advice given and decide which route they want to follow.

[Pinky69]

Great letter - and I agree it may not be appropriate to advise a solicitor to consult another solicitor. That's alright if your telling a bank/DCA that they are talking garbage and should get advice.